Proposal: JT Miller to Pittsburgh

[Siludin]

The Penguins give up basically their entire futures pool so they can lose in 6 games in round 1 instead of 5 games

This team is better off nuking itself and going into a full rebuild than trying a Jim Rutherford type of win-now move. Their window is shut.

This depends on whether they can retain top-6 forwards Rust/Rakell/Rodrigues/Kapanen imo.
If they move on from Malkin, they can probably keep some of those guys around.
If they can keep three of those players, add J.T Miller, and keep Crosby & Zucker in the mix, they should remain competitive even as Crosby begins to decline. Most of those guys are late 20s/early 30s - they still have some legs.
Pittsburgh shouldn't sell their entire future but if they are going to milk the rest of Crosby's contract they have to focus on icing a top tier roster for the next three complete seasons.

 

[TryamkinPleaseReturn]

The Penguins give up basically their entire futures pool so they can lose in 6 games in round 1 instead of 5 games

This team is better off nuking itself and going into a full rebuild than trying a Jim Rutherford type of win-now move. Their window is shut.

Just wondering, what do you think of these players: Kasperi Kapanen; Derick Pouliot; Olli Maatta; Joe Morrow; Beau Bennet; Simon Despres; Angelo Esposito? And do you know what they have in common?

 

[Empoleon8771]

This depends on whether they can retain top-6 forwards Rust/Rakell/Rodrigues/Kapanen imo.
If they move on from Malkin, they can probably keep some of those guys around.
If they can keep three of those players, add J.T Miller, and keep Crosby & Zucker in the mix, they should remain competitive even as Crosby begins to decline. Most of those guys are late 20s/early 30s - they still have some legs.
Pittsburgh shouldn't sell their entire future but if they are going to milk the rest of Crosby's contract they have to focus on icing a top tier roster for the next three complete seasons.

Kapanen and Rodrigues are absolutely not top-6 forwards. Rodrigues is a 25-30 point 3rd liner who had an insane run earlier in the year and Kapanen has absolutely fallen off a cliff. The Kapanen thing was mind boggling, he has been a downright horrendous player for about the last 3 months and it happened out of nowhere. Rodrigues was easy to see coming, he was a guy playing well over his head, but Kapanen has just been odd.

I don't think a team with Crosby, Miller, Rust, Rakell and Guentzel as their leading forwards will do anything in the playoffs.

Just wondering, what do you think of these players: Kasperi Kapanen; Derick Pouliot; Olli Maatta; Joe Morrow; Beau Bennet; Simon Despres; Angelo Esposito? And do you know what they have in common?

Who was the last NHL team to win anything with a core of players in their mid 30s?

The Penguins need a time machine to age back Crosby, Malkin and Letang by 5 years and to add a prime aged Phil Kessel to win anything again. There's a reason they've lost in the 1st round in the last 3 years and will likely lose quickly this year as well.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

The Penguins give up basically their entire futures pool so they can lose in 6 games in round 1 instead of 5 games

This team is better off nuking itself and going into a full rebuild than trying a Jim Rutherford type of win-now move. Their window is shut.

Lots of faith in this core, I see.

 

[Eggtimer]

I’d never count the Pens out . I habe been waiting for the past few years to expect them to miss the playoffs by a couple of points when. Crosby / Malkin/ Letang get hurt but it never happens. They always go on an incredible run for part of the season and just will not lose. Normally I’d think the declime will finally happen next year but as long as Sullivan is there and Sid can play …. I wouldnt bet against the Pens and may as well go for it while Sid is still playing .

 

[TryamkinPleaseReturn]

Kapanen and Rodrigues are absolutely not top-6 forwards. Rodrigues is a 25-30 point 3rd liner who had an insane run earlier in the year and Kapanen has absolutely fallen off a cliff. The Kapanen thing was mind boggling, he has been a downright horrendous player for about the last 3 months and it happened out of nowhere. Rodrigues was easy to see coming, he was a guy playing well over his head, but Kapanen has just been odd.

I don't think a team with Crosby, Miller, Rust, Rakell and Guentzel as their leading forwards will do anything in the playoffs.



Who was the last NHL team to win anything with a core of players in their mid 30s?

The Penguins need a time machine to age back Crosby, Malkin and Letang by 5 years and to add a prime aged Phil Kessel to win anything again. There's a reason they've lost in the 1st round in the last 3 years and will likely lose quickly this year as well.

If you're 100% set on demolishing the group, Vancouver can help, by taking 35 year old Crosby off your hands. Sound good? In return Vancouver would be happy to give some prospects, some young roster players in their mid 20s, and a 1st round pick! And since you plan to rebuild (it sounds like?) it should be fine to have wasted cap space, so 50% retention? And Vancouver can throw in an extra 1st round pick. Heck, Vancouver can throw in a 3rd, a 4th, and six 5th round picks on top.

Pittsburgh
In: A whole bunch of sweet, sweet draft picks and young prospects
Out: useless old man

Vancouver
Out: Dickinson, Poolman, 5.15 million cap/year,
In: Crosby, 4.35 million cap/year
Top 6
Miller - Crosby - Boeser
Pettersson - Horvat - Garland

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Kapanen and Rodrigues are absolutely not top-6 forwards. Rodrigues is a 25-30 point 3rd liner who had an insane run earlier in the year and Kapanen has absolutely fallen off a cliff. The Kapanen thing was mind boggling, he has been a downright horrendous player for about the last 3 months and it happened out of nowhere. Rodrigues was easy to see coming, he was a guy playing well over his head, but Kapanen has just been odd.

I don't think a team with Crosby, Miller, Rust, Rakell and Guentzel as their leading forwards will do anything in the playoffs.



Who was the last NHL team to win anything with a core of players in their mid 30s?

The Penguins need a time machine to age back Crosby, Malkin and Letang by 5 years and to add a prime aged Phil Kessel to win anything again. There's a reason they've lost in the 1st round in the last 3 years and will likely lose quickly this year as well.

When was the last time a core of players was performing this well in their mid-30s?

 

[Gurglesons]

When was the last time a core of players was performing this well in their mid-30s?

Probably Colorado 03-04. But Forsberg was 30 which blows my mind.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Probably Colorado 03-04. But Forsberg was 30 which blows my mind.

Let's go with that, unless you want to go further back.

So if you're Colorado in '03-'04, you don't see the merit in spending some late 1st rounders to maximize the time remaining with that core? Because players in their mid 30s are destined to lose anyway?

 

[Gurglesons]

Let's go with that, unless you want to go further back.

So if you're Colorado in '03-'04, you don't see the merit in spending some late 1st rounders to maximize the time remaining with that core? Because players in their mid 30s are destined to lose anyway?

I don’t necessarily disagree with you. As I said I’d easily spend those assets on Timo Meier.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I don’t necessarily disagree with you. As I said I’d easily spend those assets on Timo Meier.

This is all I'm saying in terms of targeting a high-end winger, even if only for one year (and even if it's not a younger guy like Meier). It should be a priority.

The Penguins aren't some run-of-the-mill team in their mid-30s. They're the core of the most successful team of their era, and all of them are still performing at a high level. Pens brass ought to put the best possible team around them.

 

[Jerkbait]

Not a bad trade proposal.

My opinion is extremely unpopular, especially on this site. But my opinion is that young prospects - even recently drafted first round picks - are not very valuable. My other opinion is that draft picks - even first round draft picks - are not very valuable. The two exceptions are: prospects who have done incredible things in their respective leagues; and first round draft picks inside the top 5 (maybe top 10) range. Those two things are extremely valuable, because they have a really good chance of, one day, becoming an impact player, possibly close to what a JT Miller or Timo Mier can do for example.

From Vancouver's perspective though, they are not good enough to even make the playoffs, never mind compete for the cup. Which means they don't really have use for a 100 point, all-situation 2-way centre like Miller. So that means they might have to trade him, no matter what return they can get. If that return is three lottery tickets, with 1/300 chance of winning, then it might be what they have to take. But it also means, they should probably trade every single player on their team, and start anew. Not a good situation.

I think for Pittsburgh that's a move that could put them in a really good position to win, and in my view, they are extremely unlikely to lose an impact player, and they are getting an immediate, guaranteed star, in either Meier or Miller. Also, Pittsburgh's 1sts will be late no matter what, but you add a superstar, and the 1sts are probably around 30th, instead of 20-30, which makes it even less of a loss for them. But again, I know on this site that prospects are infinitely more valuable than established superstars, and 1st round picks are even more valuable than prospects. So carry on.

Its does little to nothing to really help. The window is basically shut and it appears herald really has no idea how to proceed. The mushy middle is the worst spot to be. Yes they need the playoff revenue but realistically the only eastern team they have any chance of beating would be Washington and perhaps Boston.
He tall didn't address the goaltending, the soft team, the third line or the grit on bottom 6. The fat lady has sung here and Miller will be important the Vancouver moving forward