Player Discussion JT Miller Thread

[Canucker]

There can kinda be a ruling class pull strings as management has been stoking the flames for a bunch of stuff but never towards themselves. Theyve never taken responsibility for letting Zads walk or assembling the worst D in the 3-8 positions

Yeah, the media hasn’t really held them to task for the defense…Sat and Landon Ferraro were fellating the defense in one of the panels so apparently they are killing it. Lol

People were way harder on Petey than they have been on Miller. Give me a break.

I guess you haven’t been reading much.

 

[VanJack]

I guess if Miller ends up getting traded, we'll never find out why he took a leave of absence from the Canucks last month.

But if I was guessing, I'd say that one of the reasons he wanted a 'time-out' was to decide whether or not he even wants to stay in Vancouver.

I mean he does have full no-movement contract. So he'd have to agree to waive it to go anywhere. And that doesn't appear to be an issue right now.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I guess you haven’t been reading much.

Nah. Its not even close.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Yeah, the media hasn’t really held them to task for the defense…Sat and Landon Ferraro were fellating the defense in one of the panels so apparently they are killing it. Lol

Nah, I agree. They are doing an admirable job given the circumstances which is more how they meant.

The defense is just built poorly. I've been saying it since last year....which I guess technically isn't that impressive...I've been saying it since Benning took over and even before that.

If the Canucks aren't deep on D, they won't win a lot of games. No idea why, but the talent disparity is so stark it's hit critical stage finally. The only two years I've liked our defensive corps are the only two years we made the playoffs since 2013. One of those I am very loathe to even consider.

 

[bossram]

There is also just his age and his prihevted surplus value, or lack thereof. But JT is tough to read and predict. Everyone wanted to trade him two years ago and he followed that up with two years of excellent play.

Weird that I need to be that guy but JT Miller is a fantastic hockey player.

He is in a deep slump and posters are being way too hard on him and fatalistic about his future here.

He's really only had one season where he was a true, 1st line play-driving, all-situations player. Other seasons even where he had the raw production, it was all PP points or his 5v5 impact was subpar.

Is he a good player? Yes. But he's also volatile and can't help but eventually create a toxic work environment wherever he goes.

The team literally had to give him a month-long time out to "reset" from his antics. It didn't work. Where do you go from there?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

He's really only had one season where he was a true, 1st line play-driving, all-situations player. Other seasons even where he had the raw production, it was all PP points or his 5v5 impact was subpar.

Is he a good player? Yes. But he's also volatile and can't help but eventually create a toxic work environment wherever he goes.

The team literally had to give him a month-long time out to "reset" from his antics. It didn't work. Where do you go from there?

You dont need to convince me of any of that.

I have a long history of being (sometimes unfairly) critical of Miller.

But I feel the pendulum has swung way too hard the other direction.

 

[Canucker]

Nah. Its not even close.

Ok, maybe because EP has been struggling for for a longer period than Miller…and i guess EP gets criticism based on being an $11.6m player now and Miller gets it at an $8m player. Either way, they’re both getting hit.

This whole thing has gotten to be a pathetic Team Edward vs Team Jacob scenario. lol

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Ok, maybe because EP has been struggling for for a longer period than Miller…and i guess EP gets criticism based on being an $11.6m player now and Miller gets it at an $8m player. Either way, they’re both getting hit.

This whole thing has gotten to be a pathetic Team Edward vs Team Jacob scenario. lol

This bolded part I agree with.

 

[Hodgy]

He's really only had one season where he was a true, 1st line play-driving, all-situations player. Other seasons even where he had the raw production, it was all PP points or his 5v5 impact was subpar.

Is he a good player? Yes. But he's also volatile and can't help but eventually create a toxic work environment wherever he goes.

The team literally had to give him a month-long time out to "reset" from his antics. It didn't work. Where do you go from there?

Ya, for sure, I think this is all very evident. But when he isn’t pouting and playing like crap he’s easily been worth his 8 million cap hit even when he’s had times where he has scored lots on the power play. I don’t really disagree with you, and I think the conservative approach would be to trade him, it’s just interesting because Miller has had in the past similar levels of disinterest and poor play and then come back from it.

 

[theguardianII]

Miller has paid his dues here.

There is no doubt he played his best hockey and never gave up while here.

His driving force has always been a Cup and winning, he spent his best years performing for Vancouver fans.

At 32 yrs old maybe it is a gift to him for services rendered to be traded to a potential playoff cup contender where he doesn't have to be the man, where he can just be himself without the pressure of a Canadian city or maybe buried under some already established players. The third or fourth story not the first every day.

I have always thought he was a playoff type player, its just here haven't been much in that regard here and it doesn't look like much more in the near future.

Let the guy go with grace and gratitude for time served.

The return might not be as great but it will be much less in summer, right now back east there are 8 teams in the running for 3rd in a division and 2 WC spots all within 6 points.

That creates quite a seller's market for buyers under high pressure to make it and to keep some other team from getting an asset that could challenge them.

This is the same for EP as well. Both assets at levels rarely seen so both should get remarkable returns, just so long as they aren't Tocchet grinders in their 30's. Long term returns or returns that make a long term difference and not instant gratification like the media want.

 

[Bubbles]

Once a Bozo, always a Bozo. You don't get nicknames like that easily.

 

[rypper]

not instant gratification like the media want.

Which media is that, specifically.

 

[theguardianII]

Which media is that, specifically.

Listen to most of the shows, trade for this guy to help this team or trade for him. Any trades that don't think of the future are rentals and rentals don't build a future.
With the "owned" media constantly promoting instant gratification they seem to have taken over representing the fan base in the rest of the NHL.

Shows, any owned by Rogers, the team, any dependant contributors to their own private blogs/shows. Ever wondered why it has to be an eastern or US based independent report comes out before this local "owned" media mentions it? Even Dhali in taking a big risk, finally admits the rift in the room is well known for years but not until it comes out back east or on a show like Spittin Chicklets. There are others as well.

IMO any show that limits any trade talk to"the summer", the closer it comes to EP clause kicking in and the fewer the teams in the hunt the less value he has because of all the noise. They should be talking about how the pressure on other GM's to make their team better increases the closer to the last time those GM's can make a change. Keider or Zinbanjad for Miller, how stupid do they think fans are, those are surly very short term trades for the Canucks.

Ricco on air saying how they can't get anything for Pettersson right now and they have to wait until the summer.

Teams in the playoffs can't make trades that put them over the cap and any players they do get can't play for them in that year so pretty much half the league is nullified from trading anything of value. If they wait until the end of the playoffs or make a deal timed for the end they risk an injury to any player involve so they would leave themselves days to make a deal and that might not be the best they could get.

The "owned" media, "workers don't have to like each other, that happens often in life" Sure one truck driver doesn't need to like another and did they ever hear of "office politics" I am sure Brackett could educate them, oh wait they talked about that before so that means they are intentionally misdirecting fans with useless innuendo. What championship team had two top star players hating each other if there is one how many more.

 

[bossram]

You dont need to convince me of any of that.

I have a long history of being (sometimes unfairly) critical of Miller.

But I feel the pendulum has swung way too hard the other direction.

I don't think so. His antics have gotten even worse, to such a point the team asked him to leave for a month.

He should be getting more criticism.

Ya, for sure, I think this is all very evident. But when he isn’t pouting and playing like crap he’s easily been worth his 8 million cap hit even when he’s had times where he has scored lots on the power play. I don’t really disagree with you, and I think the conservative approach would be to trade him, it’s just interesting because Miller has had in the past similar levels of disinterest and poor play and then come back from it.

Yes, ideally he would just shut up and play because he's a good player.

But he can't help but just spiral when things go poorly. He created a bad enough team environment the team wanted him to step away. And now he's right back to the same antics.

Seems hard to come back from that.

 

[Zippgunn]

He has turned into a problem child. We don't need this kind of "leadership", trade him...

 

[IslandBeast]

Miller has paid his dues here.

There is no doubt he played his best hockey and never gave up while here.

Never gave up? He gives up almost every game, that's why people dislike him..

If a shift/game doesn't go right you'll find him dropping his shoulders, pouting and skating lifelessly for a change. Constantly turning pucks over, poor body language and left the team for weeks after always acting like the tough guy on campus.

When he's on his game and in a positive mindset he's amazing but this is few and far between.

 

[Leif Rohlin]

I don't think so. His antics have gotten even worse, to such a point the team asked him to leave for a month.

He should be getting more criticism.


Yes, ideally he would just shut up and play because he's a good player.

But he can't help but just spiral when things go poorly. He created a bad enough team environment the team wanted him to step away. And now he's right back to the same antics.

Seems hard to come back from that.

Do you have anything to support this claim?

 

[sting101]

Once a Bozo, always a Bozo. You don't get nicknames like that easily.

Once a sister always a sister.

We are all Canucks

 

[Icebreakers]

Miller is kinda actually psycho lol. Hes too intense.

Petey is essentially a robot, hes not intense enough.

Two polar opposites. Miller probably gets frustrated and thinks Petey doesnt care enough about winning/playing better, where Petey thinks Miller cares too much and its non of his business.

Just a back and forth cycle.

Theres no right or wrong without knowing the entire story, which non of us will ever know.

 

[TruGr1t]

The issue with Miller is we’re supposed to be winning with him right now. He’ll probably begin a pretty precipitous decline (if he hasn’t already) within 2 years. The rest of the core is younger and can be around for another competitive cycle.

Otherwise in around 3 years you’ll probably have a second-third-line tweener with attitude still disrupting the locker room.

 

[bossram]

Do you have anything to support this claim?

Yeah, the fact that JT's toxic antics are well documented, and that he took a leave of absence and the club couldn't even label it as something as vague as a "personal leave".

 

[lawrence]

I personally think that Jt Miller as "A" has no right or business to chew out any player on the team. That's not his job. We look at the players in the past 25 years in Canuck history that ever wore a "A" on our team, never took it out on fellow teammates. They have character resilience, fatherly figure that should be looking out for the team. Not chewing each other out. If what Brad Richardson said about JT Miller was true, than Miller needs to stop doing what he's doing, or else we need to get of this problem and move on. The suggestion between Moving Petey or MIller is an obvious one at this point. We can trade Petey, but what makes you guys think MIller wont chew out other players. He's already gotten into spats with Boeser, Horvat and now Petey? If so we have to move on. We can trade him something and later on weaponize the cap room he opens up after a trade. When he was gone, the Petey Debrusk line was doing ok. Maybe JT Miller is the locker room issue the team doesn't need right now. I hate to say it as a win now team. We have to move on from this if he's an issue in the locker room.

 

[SillyRabbit]

I think a significant amount of the criticism that Miller is getting would be absent if he was playing like he played last year.

It's hard to get on board with his style of leadership if he himself is not the hardest working (and most productive) player on the team.

By the same token, there's no way Miller gets away with being tough on Pettersson if Pettersson was playing at the level he's capable of. Not only would he have no reason to go after Pettersson, but if he did, he'd get shut down pretty quickly.

The reason why nobody is standing up for Pettersson is almost certainly because they agree with Miller. Pettersson isn't performing and they are getting fed up.

This entire thing could be solved if both players weren't playing poorly.

 

[F A N]

I personally think that Jt Miller as "A" has no right or business to chew out any player on the team. That's not his job. We look at the players in the past 25 years in Canuck history that ever wore a "A" on our team, never took it out on fellow teammates. They have character resilience, fatherly figure that should be looking out for the team. Not chewing each other out. If what Brad Richardson said about JT Miller was true, than Miller needs to stop doing what he's doing, or else we need to get of this problem and move on. The suggestion between Moving Petey or MIller is an obvious one at this point. We can trade Petey, but what makes you guys think MIller wont chew out other players. He's already gotten into spats with Boeser, Horvat and now Petey? If so we have to move on. We can trade him something and later on weaponize the cap room he opens up after a trade. When he was gone, the Petey Debrusk line was doing ok. Maybe JT Miller is the locker room issue the team doesn't need right now. I hate to say it as a win now team. We have to move on from this if he's an issue in the locker room.

I wouldn't make a blanket statement without knowing the full details. Take the reports of Byfuglien throwing Evander Kane's track suit in the shower (or somewhere) when Kane violated the dress code. If there were multiple attempts to talk to Kane about his behaviour and he wasn't listening to anyone, this act by Byfuglien was both supported and treated as a sign of leadership (which appears to be the case based on the reports).

To be clear, I'm not equating Kane to Pettersson.

The reason why nobody is standing up for Pettersson is almost certainly because they agree with Miller. Pettersson isn't performing and they are getting fed up.

I agree with your post except I'm not sure about this comment. For example, Brad Richardson said that he told Miller not to be so hard on Petey. That would be the year where Green got fired and Boudreau was hired. We don't know if Hughes, Boeser, and or Myers have tried telling Miller to tone it down/back off. Miller also went on personal leave. If that leave was at all related to his interactions with Petey then "somebody" likely stood up for Petey.

 

[RobertKron]

I mean the GM straight up said that he expected Miller to return from his leave as a better person and a better teammate.