Josi is spectacular

[Joey Banana]

If only there were all these offensive dmen with questionable defensive skills getting tons of minutes, we wouldn't have to worry about low scoring.

 

[Machinehead]

by a lot, you mean zero? or are you just trying to bash him?

Pens goal Nr 1: Shorthander, Preds lost the puck at the blueline, not Josi.
Nr 2: Josi loses a puck battle against Malkin, it happens. Not out of position at all.
Nr 3: Josi not on the ice, breakaway caused by Subban slipping.
Nr. 4: Josi not on the ice, Subban doesn't care to defend at all.

I love how everyone just blows the "bad defensively"-whistle while not even watching the games.
He also leads all NSH Dmen in
-CF%,
-CF%rel
-FF%
-FF%rel

Look at this dude bringing some evidence in instead of "watch the game and my coach is Jesus" very nice.

Josi's analytics are absurdly good this year. I can see why the thread was made.

I just think we should see it for a whole season before we anoint him better than Subban who's led practically every team he's ever been on in defensive impact.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

Nah when he's on offense I see Keith

I see dead people.

 

[Trizz]

Look at this dude bringing some evidence in instead of "watch the game and my coach is Jesus" very nice.

Josi's analytics are absurdly good this year. I can see why the thread was made.

I just think we should see it for a whole season before we anoint him better than Subban who's led practically every team he's ever been on in defensive impact.

well josis play isn't that different as last season and when he played with weber when is "advanced stats" were so awful....

maybe the analytics don't tell you everything

 

[Machinehead]

well josis play isn't that different as last season and when he played with weber when is "advanced stats" were so awful....

maybe the analytics don't tell you everything

They tell me I'm a good person and that they believe in me

 

[TitansVolsPreds615]

Am i weird for thinking Ekholm has been the Preds best D so far this season? Not that Josi have been bad either but...

Ekholm has been a quiet monster the last 3 years or so. Not bad for a guy who Barry Trotz said looked horrible and terrified on the ice and told to go get a dog if he was scared to play against top players.

 

[ConnorMcMullet]

One of the best contracts in the league

 

[KingBran]

A +2 with 14 points.

I think we have different definitions of the word "spectacular". However, people seem to judge defenseman only by their offense these days

But let me guess... "Analytics!" and "+/- is a dumb stat!" will be the retort here.

 

[The Noot]

A +2 with 14 points.

I think we have different definitions of the word "spectacular". However, people seem to judge defenseman only by their offense these days

But let me guess... "Analytics!" and "+/- is a dumb stat!" will be the retort here.

To be fair

+/- IS a dumb stat for individual players

 

[KingBran]

To be fair

+/- IS a dumb stat for individual players

I agree it is for forwards. But for defenseman knowing how much they are on the ice for goals for and goals against is a good statistic to know. If a guy is scoring that much but struggling to stay over 0 in +/- that means they are on the ice for a lot of goals against too. Doesn't say much for how good they are defensively.

 

[Romang67]

A +2 with 14 points.

I think we have different definitions of the word "spectacular". However, people seem to judge defenseman only by their offense these days

But let me guess... "Analytics!" and "+/- is a dumb stat!" will be the retort here.

+/- isn't a dumb stat. It's a descriptive stat with little to no predictive value. The problem isn't the stat, it's that people keep using it thinking it actually tells you something.

 

[Romang67]

It does tell you something... it tells you when a player was on the ice for a goal for and a goal against.

Yes, I believe I covered that in my second sentence. I didn't think I needed to repeat that in my third sentence. Perhaps I was mistaken.

 

[Sauce12]

A +2 with 14 points.

I think we have different definitions of the word "spectacular". However, people seem to judge defenseman only by their offense these days

But let me guess... "Analytics!" and "+/- is a dumb stat!" will be the retort here.

I was talking about his spectacular playing style, not his stats.

 

[ThirdManIn]

Josi has certainly had his fair share of poor defensive play, but I do wonder how many of the detractors here would be opposed to adding him to their team right now.

 

[SSJ3 Lunar]

I just think we should see it for a whole season before we anoint him better than Subban who's led practically every team he's ever been on in defensive impact.

Okay let me make this clear to all the people who don't watch Preds games regularly. Subban played last year with Ekholm who is a an underrated beast of a defenseman which allows Subban to get away with a lot of his misplays. Subban is a good player, but he isn't the best Defenseman on the Preds. He isn't better than Josi, He isn't better than Ellis, he isn't better defensively than Ekholm or Ellis or Josi. Subban this year has had to play with Emelin, and now that he doesn't have Ekholm to bail him out any time he makes a mistake, it is obviously clear that he is very overrated by a lot of people on this board. Subban is a hell of a guy to watch play, and is a Superstar with how fun he looks and is.

I'm so glad we have this top four and wouldn't trade them for anything, not even McDavid. But I really wish people would quit saying Subban is the best defenseman on the Preds, because he just isn't. People just don't understand the keyword in defeseman is defense, not offense.

Subban also falls a lot on the ice. Not sure if diving or just not as strong on his skates as the rest of our team.

 

[Machinehead]

Josi has certainly had his fair share of poor defensive play, but I do wonder how many of the detractors here would be opposed to adding him to their team right now.

Sign me up for Josi, no question. Nobody will argue that he isn't a first pairing defenseman.

 

[Machinehead]

+/- isn't a dumb stat. It's a descriptive stat with little to no predictive value. The problem isn't the stat, it's that people keep using it thinking it actually tells you something.

Nah it kind of is a dumb stat. Anybody who plays a lot of powerplay is pretty much starting the year -15 before the puck even drops from shorthanded goals against and empty netters against.

GF% is viable.

 

[ThirdManIn]

Sign me up for Josi, no question. Nobody will argue that he isn't a first pairing defenseman.

I think you've been fair with your critiques, though I don't necessarily agree with how poor you think he is defensively. He's no Suter or Vlasic, certainly, but he isn't a liability either. He's not going to be the guy shutting down the other team's top guns with solid positioning; he will be out there trying to maintain puck possession. One of his attributes is in making the other team decide when they need to ice their best defensive players, because right now the Predators are a match-up nightmare partially because of Josi's ability to drive the play in the offensive zone. Granted, when he makes a mistake in an effort to do that it could very well end up being a scoring chance for the other team, but at the end of the day I think his benefit to the team far outweighs whatever detriment he may bring.

 

[Machinehead]

I think you've been fair with your critiques, though I don't necessarily agree with how poor you think he is defensively. He's no Suter or Vlasic, certainly, but he isn't a liability either. He's not going to be the guy shutting down the other team's top guns with solid positioning; he will be out there trying to maintain puck possession. One of his attributes is in making the other team decide when they need to ice their best defensive players, because right now the Predators are a match-up nightmare partially because of Josi's ability to drive the play in the offensive zone. Granted, when he makes a mistake in an effort to do that it could very well end up being a scoring chance for the other team, but at the end of the day I think his benefit to the team far outweighs whatever detriment he may bring.

My wording above may have been harsh.

He's far from Rod Langway but he's also far from Dan Girardi, and the analytics have been average at their worst since the Weber trade.

Though I did compare him to Shattenkirk who is one of my favorites and a really good #2 IMO

 

[Legionnaire11]

People who don't watch the Preds often probably wouldn't realize how often he had to carry Matt Irwin as a partner over the last two seasons. That will make anyone's defensive metrics look bad.

 

[SabresSharks]

We need to stop pretending that anyone working in the NHL is an infallible being.

Agreed, and if they were infallible this forum would have little reason to exist. I propose a toast to incompetence!

 

[KingBran]

Josi has certainly had his fair share of poor defensive play, but I do wonder how many of the detractors here would be opposed to adding him to their team right now.

Well I am not sure where he would fit on the Blues, he is a top notch D-man though. Lots of teams would want him. I honestly wasnt saying he is a bad player. I just wouldnt call him "spectacular". Nashville may have the best core of offensive defenseman in the league. They are fun to watch cause they have lots of O. Just to me, the buck stops there. The D leaves some to be desired.

 

[ThirdManIn]

Yeah the appeal to authority argument doesn't hold sway, but I think we can certainly agree that one of the best GMs in the game sees things in Josi's game that lend him to being an elite defenseman that perhaps are missed in arguments which are designed solely to paint him as nothing special.

He's something special. He's not the most special.

 

[ThirdManIn]

Well I am not sure where he would fit on the Blues, he is a top notch D-man though. Lots of teams would want him. I honestly wasnt saying he is a bad player. I just wouldnt call him "spectacular". Nashville may have the best core of offensive defenseman in the league. They are fun to watch cause they have lots of O. Just to me, the buck stops there. The D leaves some to be desired.

But he's been spectacular so far this season. I'm not sure where the issue is aside from maybe adding some words to the title, but I also haven't read the OP in a while so I don't remember the exact premise.

 

[triggrman]

Yeah the appeal to authority argument doesn't hold sway, but I think we can certainly agree that one of the best GMs in the game sees things in Josi's game that lend him to being an elite defenseman that perhaps are missed in arguments which are designed solely to paint him as nothing special.

He's something special. He's not the most special.

I'm not sure there a complete "most special" defenseman right now. Karlsson fans have even admitted he has been subpar defensively.

Pietrangelo is making a case though.