Player Discussion Josh Norris (C) 6’-1” - Part 3

[HSF]

I feel like Tkachuk is so wired to win that if Norris has to go to make the lineup better he won't resist. He might not be happy about it but I mean Norris has not been holding up his end of the deal for what he brings.

If we need to clear cap I still think Perron should be first..

 

[vandelay]

I understand the desire to move him. If you don't like the player for the price tag, that time to move him is now.
But I don't think these scenarios are played out to their logical conclusions. Traded for cap space? We lack goal scorers so who replaces his goals from within the organization? Ufa signing (see: David Perron)? Logically, we're not getting equal value. We get another high risk player or a prospect with potential.

Again, I can see the argument for the cheaper prospect but that's an unknown and with our pro scouting track record. A good chance we end up with cap space and a failed or low end prospect. Yes, we need cap space but reality is best case we end up back here with that new player- a good player paid more than he should be for too many years.

 

[HSF]

I understand the desire to move him. If you don't like the player for the price tag, that time to move him is now.
But I don't think these scenarios are played out to their logical conclusions. Traded for cap space? We lack goal scorers so who replaces his goals from within the organization? Ufa signing (see: David Perron)? Logically, we're not getting equal value. We get another high risk player or a prospect with potential.

Again, I can see the argument for the cheaper prospect but that's an unknown and with our pro scouting track record. A good chance we end up with cap space and a failed or low end prospect. Yes, we need cap space but reality is best case we end up back here with that new player- a good player paid more than he should be for too many years.

I mean it really depends on the deal. Necas wanted out last summer could you swing him for Necas for Norris+ if Norris put up 30-35 goals last year? Obviously that won't happen with how Necas is playing now but there are certain situations where a 1 for 1+ might work. Dylan Couzens? There is also value to just having cap space. We have seen teams move players like Fabbro and Carrier where only a few teams can fit them in cap wise.

We won't really know what options are there until the summer but I also don't think Norris is an impossible player to replace. He is not a play driver and doesn't really setup plays.

 

[PlayOn]

It might also depend on what the cap actually ends up being. Friedman said last night on the broadcast that by the deadline teams will be told not only what it is next year but they may also get numbers for a few more years. That probably helps inform the outlook.

At 92 million there’s basically no room to do anything unless you move someone, but if it gets higher, maybe that allows them a bit a more freedom.

 

[bicboi64]

Loved his game last night. C'mon Josh, have a few more multi goal games so we can keep arguing about how dope of a return you'd bring back or how much we'll win if we keep you

 

[GCK]

A note from last nights pre game warm up. Norris and Pinto stayed out with Pinto feeding Norris for about 15 one timers. Shoulder seems fine.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Heatley was a better scorer and more talented but he wasn't putting away one tees automatically like Norris was in his 35in22 season.

Let me know when Norris starts teeing this shit up from the F’ing Rock Star Zone.

 

[aragorn]

Norris is not getting moved IMO, he just came off 3 shoulder surgeries & they know what he can bring & will give him another yr to heal. Not to mention how much the coach trusts him in the faceoff circle which is one of those little things that can mean so much in tight checking games & the playoffs regarding possession. This board had us trading Tkachuk, Batherson, Chabot, Giroux, Pinto, Greig & now Norris & that's just this yr & I bet I'm missing others.

 

[JD1]

Nope. But I don’t like Garrioch enough to keep defending his credibility lol. I disagree that he doesn’t have sources and we can leave it at that.


I think if we miss the playoffs it doesn’t matter much if it disrupts the locker room, because the bottom line is we keep losing.

But I do wonder about it if we finally get in the playoffs and even perform well there. I don’t think you can run the franchise to please Tkachuk, but I think these things are worth more consideration in a Canadian market that isn’t considered a desirable place to play. If we were Vegas it would be a complete non-factor. But like anything else it just comes down to winning - if we start winning, they will get over it and if we don’t, we’re likely headed for a mess anyway. So Staios will do whatever he feels he has to do. I’m hoping Norris has a big second half here.

Couple of things

We're making the playoffs so there's that.

But secondly, the cap is rising a lot. He's good on the draw, PKs, strong defensively, plays OT minutes and scores.

There's a market for him. So what comes back ? Cause this is not a situation like with Chabot last summer where you cannot move the contract

 

[aragorn]

Couple of things

We're making the playoffs so there's that.

But secondly, the cap is rising a lot. He's good on the draw, PKs, strong defensively, plays OT minutes and scores.

There's a market for him. So what comes back ? Cause this is not a situation like with Chabot last summer where you cannot move the contract

People are still complaining about moving Zibanejad & now they want to move Norris? You don't move good young centres who have the ability to put up a lot of pts & score a lot of goals. This team needs goal scorers why would you trade one?

 

[PlayOn]

Couple of things

We're making the playoffs so there's that.

But secondly, the cap is rising a lot. He's good on the draw, PKs, strong defensively, plays OT minutes and scores.

There's a market for him. So what comes back ? Cause this is not a situation like with Chabot last summer where you cannot move the contract

Norris is great. He’s one of my fav players on the team. That said his production is not in alignment with his contract. He has 2 assists 5v5 all season - part of this is bad luck, but he’s also an inconsistent player when it comes to generating offense. Some nights he looks excellent, and then the next night there’s nothing. How much of that is just a product of missing a lot of time? I don’t know.

I’ve said 10000x I wouldn’t trade Norris. But if you believe Garrioch, the Sens want to move him. I don’t think it does us any good to pretend there are no reasons for that. I believe Norris will overcome them but I’m also not paying him.

The cap is going up but next year Pinto needs a contract, the year after Batherson and Zub need contracts, the year after Brady and Chabot need contracts etc. We won’t sign everyone but things will be tight regardless.

The return will almost certainly suck imo. Either a vet C, or a vet defenseman.

 

[JD1]

Norris is great. He’s one of my fav players on the team. That said his production is not in alignment with his contract. He has 2 assists 5v5 all season - part of this is bad luck, but he’s also an inconsistent player when it comes to generating offense. Some nights he looks excellent, and then the next night there’s nothing. How much of that is just a product of missing a lot of time? I don’t know.

I’ve said 10000x I wouldn’t trade Norris. But if you believe Garrioch, the Sens want to move him. I don’t think it does us any good to pretend there are no reasons for that. I believe Norris will overcome them but I’m also not paying him.

The cap is going up but next year Pinto needs a contract, the year after Batherson and Zub need contracts, the year after Brady and Chabot need contracts etc. We won’t sign everyone but things will be tight regardless.

The return will almost certainly suck imo. Either a vet C, or a vet defenseman.

Pinto is signed next year. Batherson for 2 more. Our most significant player without a contract next year is Giroux.

I disagree on the return. I don't think he's hugely overpaid which differs from many here.

 

[PlayOn]

Pinto is signed next year. Batherson for 2 more. Our most significant player without a contract next year is Giroux.

I disagree on the return. I don't think he's hugely overpaid which differs from many here.

I meant next year as in next summer. I don’t think they’d move Norris because of cap issues next season only, the risk would be keeping him and running into more injury problems or him not progressing and then being stuck with the contract for numerous years when others need raises.

I would think the injury history would play a significant part in why he’d return less. It’s the combination of his cap hit, actual dollars and injury risk… all of these things tend to kill the return you get on a player.

 

[Cosmix]

Norris is great. He’s one of my fav players on the team. That said his production is not in alignment with his contract. He has 2 assists 5v5 all season - part of this is bad luck, but he’s also an inconsistent player when it comes to generating offense. Some nights he looks excellent, and then the next night there’s nothing. How much of that is just a product of missing a lot of time? I don’t know.

I’ve said 10000x I wouldn’t trade Norris. But if you believe Garrioch, the Sens want to move him. I don’t think it does us any good to pretend there are no reasons for that. I believe Norris will overcome them but I’m also not paying him.

The cap is going up but next year Pinto needs a contract, the year after Batherson and Zub need contracts, the year after Brady and Chabot need contracts etc. We won’t sign everyone but things will be tight regardless.

The return will almost certainly suck imo. Either a vet C, or a vet defenseman.

What did Garrioch say?

 

[Answer]

Move him as soon as his value is high, along with Batherson!

Let other players continue making great plays for him and use him to score goals to pad his awful stats

 

[Cosmix]

Move him as soon as his value is high, along with Batherson!

Let other players continue making great plays for him and use him to score goals to pad his awful stats

Is there a Garrioch quote or source somewhere?

 

[thinkwild]

Booboo wanting to trade Norris gives great deja vu of his campaign against Bonk. There was a year when it seemed like every road game was cause for a column about what a great trade we could make with that team for the once prolific but now ordinary defensive Bonk. I think that might have even been the hate Garrioch origin story.

Norris has also fought his way back through much rehab which is a testament to me. It seems apparent that the team has sacrificed offence for a defensive game. And it is working. So hopefully when noting the drops in offense it corresponds to increases in defense when discussing value.

 

[DylanSensFan]

Norris is great. He’s one of my fav players on the team. That said his production is not in alignment with his contract. He has 2 assists 5v5 all season - part of this is bad luck, but he’s also an inconsistent player when it comes to generating offense. Some nights he looks excellent, and then the next night there’s nothing. How much of that is just a product of missing a lot of time? I don’t know.

I’ve said 10000x I wouldn’t trade Norris. But if you believe Garrioch, the Sens want to move him. I don’t think it does us any good to pretend there are no reasons for that. I believe Norris will overcome them but I’m also not paying him.

The cap is going up but next year Pinto needs a contract, the year after Batherson and Zub need contracts, the year after Brady and Chabot need contracts etc. We won’t sign everyone but things will be tight regardless.

The return will almost certainly suck imo. Either a vet C, or a vet defenseman.

He's basically been off for two years. I'd give him more time to recover in multiple aspects.

Booboo wanting to trade Norris gives great deja vu of his campaign against Bonk. There was a year when it seemed like every road game was cause for a column about what a great trade we could make with that team for the once prolific but now ordinary defensive Bonk. I think that might have even been the hate Garrioch origin story.

Norris has also fought his way back through much rehab which is a testament to me. It seems apparent that the team has sacrificed offence for a defensive game. And it is working. So hopefully when noting the drops in offense it corresponds to increases in defense when discussing value.

The offense will come. This team is starting to open up a bit more now. They can create offense when they need to, but they can also lock it down defensively if they need to. I think we'll see a lot more goals in the second half and a lot more wins.

 

[Norris4Norris]

I feel like Tkachuk is so wired to win that if Norris has to go to make the lineup better he won't resist. He might not be happy about it but I mean Norris has not been holding up his end of the deal for what he brings.

If we need to clear cap I still think Perron should be first..

Norris has 17 goals. On pace for over 30.

He wins faceoffs an starts more shifts in the defensive zone than any other Senator.

Ya he costs a pretty penny but it is hard to get a better player than him back in a trade, it just is. There aren't many one for one trades.

To me it makes no sense to trade a guy who is only going to continue to score and win faceoffs.