Player Discussion Josh Norris (C) 6’-1” - Part 3

[RickyLafleur]

Don’t understand why Sens fans are so low on Norris, the guy has a compete level, is a key part of the chemistry of the team and is a very very good top 6 player

So many fans going to have egg on their face when Norris plays this season at a level that he can simply play at which is a 2nd line C who can score and skate with anyone in the NHL who’s name doesn’t start with Mc.

Norris is going to be top 4 in scoring for forwards this year and Sens fans will need to eat crow

It's pretty easy to see why people are down on him since he's only played 124/246 games since his breakout year. He may be healthy again but likely never the same because of injuries, or his shoulder explodes 2 weeks into the season and he's out for the year again.

 

[Senscore]

I think you’re just in the pretending to be smart category - you’re critizinf something that could go wrong and if it doesn’t go wrong you can just say “all of my indicators had him doing poorly but as a Sens fan I’m happy he’s doing well”

If you watch Sens hockey you’ve seen 90% good out of Norris and 5% recovering from injury and 5% incompetent coaching. So if you’re critical of Norris it’s because you want to say “I told you so” because the eye ball test shows a solid top 6 NHL’er with speed, compete and hockey smarts

That's pretty unfair to say about me. We're in the golden age of "I told you so" in regards to negative takes about this team and everyone is f***ing miserable.

I have absolutely nothing against the guy. He seems like a very humble, well adjusted and hard working young player. But there's precedent for this stuff. Hard work and a positive attitude isn't always enough to overcome several major surgeries.

Even if Josh plays a full 82 games this year, I don't think we can say with any real certainty which Josh Norris we will see. I don't think he's in danger of getting scratched or anything but there's a wide valley between "solid top 6 guy" and "premiere goal scorer".

Read my Mads Sogaard takes if you want to see me be really bearish about a player.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

What do you mean by before the injury, because his last healthy season he put up 35g and 55 pts in 66 games, even the iteration of Norris that was still struggling with his shoulder not feeling right, after missing a full season was pacing at 26g 50 pts.

Yeah but I don’t think progression is totally linear. Just cuz he got 50 points then I don’t think he will get 60 and then 70 and then 80 and so on.

People are already stopping the pass to him on the pp which they were not all the year he scored 35.

Watching him play I think 65 points ~30 goals and strong defence would be GREAT

And that’s not a slight on Norris.

 

[Micklebot]

I don't think it's that hard to imagine why people might be low on Josh Norris.

Injuries can derail careers and in some cases end them very abruptly. It's been several years and several surgeries now since Josh has had shoulder problems and although things certainly look positive healthwise, we've seen him come back and get hurt fairly quickly. We can't rely on him to play a full season until he does.

Also, as it stands he still effectively had just one pretty good year with an abnormally high shooting percentage with prime ice time on a bad team with no expectations. Going forward, will we see this player again, even if he is healthy? Again, it's hard to say for sure if things just all came together for him or not. Is he really a 50-60 point player or can he go for 75-85?

I would certainly like to see that player back, but I'm not super confident about it.

Uncertainty around his health is a valid concern, he could be done, though so far it sounds like this surgery has healed better than the last which had noise about setbacks and not feeling right leading into camp last year.

But, the only one pretty good season criticism imo isn't particularly valid imo, he scored 17 in 56 games the year before with an almost identical sh% as a rookie. He was 3rd in goals in the AHL his rookie year there. Hes always had a wicked shot and his progression was natural, not some out of nowhere outlier. Playing on a bad team means the opposition can focus on that top line, unless you think someone is bumping him out of that shooter spot on the PP being on a better team likely wouldn't have negatively impacted his production.

 

[Micklebot]

Yeah but I don’t think progression is totally linear. Just cuz he got 50 points then I don’t think he will get 60 and then 70 and then 80 and so on.

People are already stopping the pass to him on the pp which they were not all the year he scored 35.

Watching him play I think 65 points ~30 goals and strong defence would be GREAT

And that’s not a slight on Norris.

35g and 60pts wouldn't be linear though, if anything it would have been a step back from the pace (he was pacing at 42g and 65pts) of his last healthy season.

Would that be great now, absolutely, but if we're playing what if, I think we'd be happy but not thrilled with that as a follow up to the last healthy year

 

[Tuna99]

It's pretty easy to see why people are down on him since he's only played 124/246 games since his breakout year. He may be healthy again but likely never the same because of injuries, or his shoulder explodes 2 weeks into the season and he's out for the year again.

But why not the same? Why are people saying this?

if he was on the PP lastvuear wjere he is supposed to be he would of scored 20 in 50 games.

If they put Mcdavid on the point and Boucher in front of the net they would look out of place even for those guys.

To me the Norris thing is as much about coaching, bad management and a bad team then injuries. I think he’ll be back and back big time

 

[BondraTime]

But why not the same? Why are people saying this?

if he was on the PP lastvuear wjere he is supposed to be he would of scored 20 in 50 games.

If they put Mcdavid on the point and Boucher in front of the net they would look out of place even for those guys.

To me the Norris thing is as much about coaching, bad management and a bad team then injuries. I think he’ll be back and back big time

Norris was 3rd in icetime on the PP with over 3 minutes per game, on the halfwall/point as he had always been.

 

[Tuna99]

No he was

Norris was 3rd in icetime on the PP with over 3 minutes per game, on the halfwall/point as he had always been.

No he wasn’t. Find me the stats on Norris PP shots per game from 2 years ago year compared to last year.

Like I said - if you put Boucher in front of the net he’d look out of place.

Put Norris back in his shooting position and let him score goals lien he’s paid to do

 

[BondraTime]

No he was

No he wasn’t. Find me the stats on Norris PP shots per game from 2 years ago year compared to last year.

Like I said - if you put Boucher in front of the net he’d look out of place.

Put Norris back in his shooting position and let him score goals lien he’s paid to do

Just watch all his PP goals, he's playing the halfwall/point on the right side, as he always had been. He's always the right side of the umbrella with Stu on the left

 

[Burrowsaurus]

35g and 60pts wouldn't be linear though, if anything it would have been a step back from the pace (he was pacing at 42g and 65pts) of his last healthy season.

Would that be great now, absolutely, but if we're playing what if, I think we'd be happy but not thrilled with that as a follow up to the last healthy year

I was of the mind and still am that Norris point production was getting a tad overrated. After that year. So for me. 65 points long term would have been good

He never looked to me like a ppg+ player

No he was

No he wasn’t. Find me the stats on Norris PP shots per game from 2 years ago year compared to last year.

Like I said - if you put Boucher in front of the net he’d look out of place.

Put Norris back in his shooting position and let him score goals lien he’s paid to do

The other team blocked that pass all pro long. We struggled to get it open.

 

[Tuna99]

I was of the mind and still am that Norris point production was getting a tad overrated. After that year. So for me. 65 points long term would have been good

He never looked to me like a ppg+ player


The other team blocked that pass all pro long. We struggled to get it open.

Well it’s true and been well Discussed on all the Sens podcasts that Norris was out of position on the PP all season long - not sure what you’re talking about. Batherson and Stu can get him the puck - he just wasn’t on his shooting side for 90% of the season

 

[Micklebot]

No he was

No he wasn’t. Find me the stats on Norris PP shots per game from 2 years ago year compared to last year.

Like I said - if you put Boucher in front of the net he’d look out of place.

Put Norris back in his shooting position and let him score goals lien he’s paid to do

He moved around more last year which could be other teams adjustments or ours because his shoulder was bugging him and not right, but he was still getting most of his chances from the circle

2021 pp shit map

2022

2024 shot map

 

[HSF]

It is not just scoring that concerns me about Norris. Its the lack of developmental time he has had over the years. He also need to provide a much higher level of play all around the ice to justify his salary.

 

[Tuna99]

It is not just scoring that concerns me about Norris. Its the lack of developmental time he has had over the years. He also need to provide a much higher level of play all around the ice to justify his salary.

He might prove be overpaid but he is making the same as Stamkos (one of the best ever) and Debrincat (floater) - I’d rather have Stamkos over Norris but I’d rather have Norris over Debrincat and his last place attitude

He moved around more last year which could be other teams adjustments or ours because his shoulder was bugging him and not right, but he was still getting most of his chances from the circle

2021 pp shit map
View attachment 904984
2022
View attachment 904987



2024 shot map
View attachment 904985

Shor chart shows they had him playing his weak side last season and shooting from there -Makes our point. Get Norris back into his PP spot and fans will Be much happier with his goal Production, he’s paid to score on the PP and he’s good at it so seems like a no brainer but this is the Senators so nothing is easy

 

[HoweHullOrr]

https://post.futurimedia.com/cfgoam/playlist/4/listen-21.html?cb=1724417114.484776

Methot reporting on Sens on ice session yesterday with lots of discussion on Norris

I hope he stays healthy and has a good year. He might start slow after missing so many games. Not much upside opining about his demise imho.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Shor chart shows they had him playing his weak side last season and shooting from there -Makes our point. Get Norris back into his PP spot and fans will Be much happier with his goal Production, he’s paid to score on the PP and he’s good at it so seems like a no brainer but this is the Senators so nothing is easy

Chart looks way heavier on the right side than left side

 

[Micklebot]

Shor chart shows they had him playing his weak side last season and shooting from there -Makes our point. Get Norris back into his PP spot and fans will Be much happier with his goal Production, he’s paid to score on the PP and he’s good at it so seems like a no brainer but this is the Senators so nothing is easy

I think it shows things weren't working as hoped on either side which is likely why the moved him around.

If he's going to find the success he had in the past, he's going to need more than just getting deployed on the right side,

 

[Micklebot]

Chart looks way heavier on the right side than left side

One point to make is that when on the left, he wasn't the shooter on the play, so he'd have been passing instead of shooting more often, so you'd expect to see more shots on the right even if his usage was split evenly.

 

[HSF]

He might prove be overpaid but he is making the same as Stamkos (one of the best ever) and Debrincat (floater) - I’d rather have Stamkos over Norris but I’d rather have Norris over Debrincat and his last place attitude


Shor chart shows they had him playing his weak side last season and shooting from there -Makes our point. Get Norris back into his PP spot and fans will Be much happier with his goal Production, he’s paid to score on the PP and he’s good at it so seems like a no brainer but this is the Senators so nothing is easy

I rather just have the cap space rather than all 3 of those guys. Even still I don't think anyone is taking the Norris contract over those other two players due to the risks involved and the uncertainty

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1831365397020610787

Lets hope there are no set backs or hiccups this year

 

[Senscore]

"Trending towards" is certainly a statement.

 

[LuckyPierre]

"Trending towards" is certainly a statement.

The Andlauer-era comms strategy from Ottawa’s brass seems to be creating low-ish expectations. Gives hope for an underpromise/overdeliver scenario.

No more of the hug, high five, on the 7th day nonsense.

 

[Korpse]

shor chart shows they had him playing his weak side last season and shooting from there -Makes our point. Get Norris back into his PP spot and fans will Be much happier with his goal Production, he’s paid to score on the PP and he’s good at it so seems like a no brainer but this is the Senators so nothing is easy

As a left handed shot, Norris played the right side of the PP for the vast majority of the time he played last season just as he has most of his career. Shortly before his season ended he played on the left side, it was very brief. All his shots on the left side came from one week in February.

Break down of his 45 unblocked shot attempts via evolving hockey
31 - Right Circle
7 - Net Front
6 - Left Circle
1 - Point

If we are talking about Norris and PP I would like to see him get off more shots below the face off dot on the right side, felt last year too many were coming from further out. It's probably more a reflection of teams containing him better but the PP as a whole has to do a better job of creating lanes. He can beat goaltenders from the top of the circle but trying to beat a goaltender from that distance as your primary option isn't going to be successful.

 

[aragorn]

I think Norris will be fine this season, but I don't expect he will break any of his own goal scoring records this yr. If he can survive the season injury free then I think he could take a bigger step next season & start to move back into a very good goal scorer & good two way centre.

 

[Micklebot]

As a left handed shot, Norris played the right side of the PP for the vast majority of the time he played last season just as he has most of his career. Shortly before his season ended he played on the left side, it was very brief. All his shots on the left side came from one week in February.

Break down of his 45 unblocked shot attempts via evolving hockey
31 - Right Circle
7 - Net Front
6 - Left Circle
1 - Point

I think when Pinto came back they moved Norris to the left, that was late Jan. That's roughly a third of Norris' season. Shots aren't a great tool to determine the PP setup when as a team we don't set up shots from the left circle.