Speculation: Jordan Binnington to Toronto?

[rumrokh]

"Trust me, bro."

Not at all. I'm just not arguing or trying to convince you. If you don't believe it, that's up to you. I don't care.

 

[Shane Diesel]

Not at all. I'm just not arguing or trying to convince you. If you don't believe it, that's up to you. I don't care.

You have no idea how debates work. You are required to defend your assertions. It's not my job to do so. So at this point you're simply lying or obfuscating.

Assertions made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

 

[bleedblue1223]

If I told you that since 18/19, the Avs shot 10.4% during the regular season, and 10.7% in the playoffs, what would that tell you for what an average goalie performance against the Avs was?

 

[Shane Diesel]

The league-average is against ALL teams. So you're again moving the goalposts. The regular season average isn't a sample size played against a team that was 1st in scoring in 2021 regular season and 4th in 2022. It's not exclusively played against a team that had the highest goals/game in 2021 and 2022 playoffs. And the highest PP% in both playoffs. How are you going to call .907 against a mixed bag of sub and above-.500 teams "average", but .906 against the best offense in tbe league over that span "playing like shit"?

I didn't say any such thing. I said .906 was below average and the games where he posted a save percentage below .900 shit. You clearly aren't reading my posts carefully.

Averages are taken across the league against all teams. That's why it's useful. It gives a broad picture. I'm sorry the numbers don't paint the picture you want, but using season averages as a baseline is absolutely not moving the goal posts in any sort of analysis.

If you want to take the average playoff save percentage from 2022 I believe it was .906. So once again, he was average at best in one game and shit in the other two. A goaltender that plays well only half the time is doing his job well, right?

Edit: actually the 2021 playoffs had an average save percentage closer to .920, so the .906, .878 and .840 he put up that year are even uglier. Yikes. I was looking at the 2022 numbers by mistake. My apologies.

If I told you that since 18/19, the Avs shot 10.4% during the regular season, and 10.7% in the playoffs, what would that tell you for what an average goalie performance against the Avs was?

What does that have to do with Binnington and the Avs specifically? Those numbers are against a myriad of teams. The discussion is Binnington's numbers in the playoffs against Colorado of which we have seven games to analyze.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Jesus christ...

 

[Shane Diesel]

Jesus christ...

This isn't hard guys, we have a seven game sample size. In three games the numbers he put up are well below average for the years he played the Avs, and four are above average.

When looking at only seven examples large swings from game-to-game can make the numbers look odd. That's the entire point.

If you all want to take a cursory glance at the numbers and claim he's been great knock yourselves out. But if you want to look at things in detail it paints a pretty mixed bag.

Hell, he's played the Avs in the regular season 23 times and those numbers are even worse. Small or large sample size he is totally hit or miss against the Avs, the misses being even more than the hits.

 

[bleedblue1223]

This isn't hard guys, we have a seven game sample size. In three games the numbers he put up are well below average for the years he played the Avs, and four are above average.

When looking at only seven examples large swings from game-to-game can make the numbers look odd. That's the entire point.

If you all want to take a cursory glance at the numbers and claim he's been great knock yourselves out. But if you want to look at things in detail it paints a pretty mixed bag.

Hell, he's played the Avs in the regular season 23 times and those numbers are even worse. Small or large sample size he is totally hit or miss against the Avs, the misses being even more than the hits.

This all started by you questioning that Binnington has been above average when facing the Avs when compared to all other goalies against the Avs. It seems you don't even understand what that means.

 

[blueslifer]

I would not give you a bag of pucks for Binnington. I saw him play against Milwaukee in the AHL and get shredded for 7 goals. When the Admirals got him moving side to side, he could not stop the snipes with his size. He was too slow. Maybe he is better now, but was awful that night.

yes thats how to beat binnington the old nhl 94 pass across the slot 1 timer...but lets be real..if thats the goal your goalie gives up and he stops everything else..id rather have that than 30 other goalies in the league who give up this same goal and more...

I'd be sad if he left the Central division. It's a free win for the Avs whenever he's in net.

if kadri didnt run him and tear his knee, avs dont win the cup, blues were winning that series and likely the cup again, binner was on a tear

 

[Shane Diesel]

This all started by you questioning that Binnington has been above average when facing the Avs when compared to all other goalies against the Avs. It seems you don't even understand what that means.

No, not at all.

The very first post I replied to in this thread was someone saying Binnington plays the Avs well. We've very clearly demonstrated that isn't the case in the regular season and when looking at the playoffs in more detail we see it's a mixed bag.

Here you go:

You think Binnington has played well against the Avs? That's truly delusional.

Posters claim his numbers are above average when compared to other opponents, but no one will post a link. And it's not my job to defend your assertions.

But I seriously doubt if this was any other goaltender anyone would be claiming a .901 over 23 games is in the regular season is playing "well" nor would anyone claim that of a goaltender that is a complete miss nearly half the time in the playoffs.

 

[blueslifer]

No, not at all.

The very first post I replied to in this thread was someone saying Binnington plays the Avs well. We've very clearly demonstrated that isn't the case in the regular season and when looking at the playoffs in more detail we see it's a mixed bag.

Here you go:



Posters claim his numbers are above average when compared to other opponents, but no one will post a link. And it's not my job to defend your assertions.

But I seriously doubt if this was any other goaltender anyone would be claiming a .901 over 23 games is in the regular season is playing "well" nor would anyone claim that of a goaltender that is a complete miss nearly half the time in the playoffs.

binners numbers are not elite...cause his team in front STINKS, its a truly terrible team, only about 3-4 players have positive value in a trade cause of their contracts / age / under performance...its also a poorly constructed team in terms of skillsets that work well together...take binnington off that team and we are top 3 pick

 

[Shane Diesel]

binners numbers are not elite...cause his team in front STINKS, its a truly terrible team, only about 3-4 players have positive value in a trade cause of their contracts / age / under performance...its also a poorly constructed team in terms of skillsets that work well together...take binnington off that team and we are top 3 pick

I know, there isn't a single fanbase across all of HF that thinks their favorite goaltender is ever at fault. It's always the skaters in front of them.

I'd tell you to go pull his GSAx numbers that attempt to single out goalie play, which are a wild ride of good to downright atrocious, but I know you'll just claim those numbers are too flawed because the Blues are some sort of outlier the models can't account for.

 

[blueslifer]

I know, there isn't a single fanbase across all of HF that thinks their favorite goaltender is ever at fault. It's always the skaters in front of them.

I'd tell you to go pull his GSAx numbers that attempt to single out goalie play, which are a wild ride of good to downright atrocious, but I know you'll just claim those numbers are too flawed because the Blues are some sort of outlier the models can't account for.

did you read my posts on earlier pages...I shared links to JB50 having top 5 in the league in expected saves and top 5 in high percentage shots..those are really the only things that matter for goalies..
he stops everything hes supposed to and some of the stuff youre not supposed to...

is the bold serious or troll..ask toronto how they feel, or edmonton 2 weeks ago, probably 25 teams fans hate their goalie..how you feel about yours bud, whats it like having a bottom 5 goalie in the league during nates prime

speaking if which what a disgrace to the league the top 3 players all have terrible goalie situations

 

[bleedblue1223]

He's literally above average against the Avs in regular season and playoffs when compared to all other goalies against the Avs.

 

[Shane Diesel]

did you read my posts on earlier pages...I shared links to JB50 having top 5 in the league in expected saves and top 5 in high percentage shots..those are really the only things that matter for goalies..

And then promptly missed or ignored my reply.

Now do his GSAX between the Cup year and this past season.

19/20: 23rd
20/21: 30th
21/22: 98th
22/23: 97th

He's literally above average against the Avs in regular season and playoffs when compared to all other goalies against the Avs.

Post the link then.

 

[bleedblue1223]

And then promptly missed or ignored my reply.



Post the link then.

Avs fan posted his stats against the Avs, I posted the Avs shooting % in that time frame, if you can do the math there, then good luck on life.

 

[Shane Diesel]

Avs fan posted his stats against the Avs, I posted the Avs shooting % in that time frame, if you can do the math there, then good luck on life.

Since no one will actually post the numbers I will.

Career numbers by opponent:

Ducks: .910
Bruins: .918
Sabres: .896
Flames: .900
Hurricanes: .907
Bkackhawks: .897
Avs: .901
Bluejackets: .918
Stars: .923
Red Wings: .850
Oilers: .906
Panthers: .936
Kings: .909
Wild: .908
Canadiens: .872
Predators: .910
Devils: .916
Islanders: .927
Rangers: .901
Senators: .935
Flyers: .928
Penguins: .914
Sharks: .914
Kraken: .913
Lightning: .914
Maple Leafs: .872
Coyotes: .881
Canucks: .920
Knights: .919
Capitals: .909
Jets: .905

Career: .908

There are only seven teams in the league he has a worse SV% against than the Avs. The rest are better.

Here's your source:

Binnington Vs Jets | StatMuse

Jordan Binnington is 3-6-1 in 10 games with a goals against average of 3.09 and a save percentage of .905 against the Jets in his career.

www.statmuse.com

But yeah, he plays the Avs well.



It's damningly obvious why no one would actually post a link at this point and I had to do it.

 

[bleedblue1223]

To determine if a goalie is better than average against a particular team, you compare their stats against that team against all other goalies against that team.

100 - Colorado's shooting % = Average goalie save %. Binnington against the Avs is above that number.

Good luck in life.

 

[sfvega]

I didn't say any such thing. I said .906 was below average and the games where he posted a save percentage below .900 shit. You clearly aren't reading my posts carefully.

You're right. I can't read.

Out of those seven games three were .906 or below. So half his playoff games are him getting lit up and the other half are decent games. Hard to claim he plays one particular team well when half his games are disasters.

But it's all Kadri's fault.

If you want to take his aggregate save percentage and claim he's played great his entire career against the Avs in the playoffs that's your perogative, but he's played like shit the other half as well.

Teach me to read gooder, like you.

Averages are taken across the league against all teams. That's why it's useful. It gives a broad picture. I'm sorry the numbers don't paint the picture you want, but using season averages as a baseline is absolutely not moving the goal posts in any sort of analysis.

If you want to take the average playoff save percentage from 2022 I believe it was .906. So once again, he was average at best in one game and shit in the other two. A goaltender that plays well only half the time is doing his job well, right?

Edit: actually the 2021 playoffs had an average save percentage closer to .920, so the .906, .878 and .840 he put up that year are even uglier. Yikes. I was looking at the 2022 numbers by mistake. My apologies.

I'm saying that looking at the league average for all teams and saying it's below average against the best offensive team is a stretch. But trying to get you to understand things is tough. What's the save % against Colorado those years? Seems like a better guide than conparing him to goalies playing all teams.

 

[Shane Diesel]

You're right. I can't read.





Teach me to read gooder, like you.

I'm saying that looking at the league average for all teams and saying it's below average against the best offensive team is a stretch. But trying to get you to understand things is tough. What's the save % against Colorado those years? Seems like a better guide than conparing him to goalies playing all teams.

To determine if a goalie is better than average against a particular team, you compare their stats against that team against all other goalies against that team.

100 - Colorado's shooting % = Average goalie save %. Binnington against the Avs is above that number.

Good luck in life.

Since no one will actually post the numbers I will.

Career numbers by opponent:

Ducks: .910
Bruins: .918
Sabres: .896
Flames: .900
Hurricanes: .907
Bkackhawks: .897
Avs: .901
Bluejackets: .918
Stars: .923
Red Wings: .850
Oilers: .906
Panthers: .936
Kings: .909
Wild: .908
Canadiens: .872
Predators: .910
Devils: .916
Islanders: .927
Rangers: .901
Senators: .935
Flyers: .928
Penguins: .914
Sharks: .914
Kraken: .913
Lightning: .914
Maple Leafs: .872
Coyotes: .881
Canucks: .920
Knights: .919
Capitals: .909
Jets: .905

Career: .908

There are only seven teams in the league he has a worse SV% against than the Avs. The rest are better.

Here's your source:

Binnington Vs Jets | StatMuse

Jordan Binnington is 3-6-1 in 10 games with a goals against average of 3.09 and a save percentage of .905 against the Jets in his career.

www.statmuse.com

But yeah, he plays the Avs well.



It's damningly obvious why no one would actually post a link at this point and I had to do it.

Since you guys refused to do so I've done the actual dirty work and posted his career numbers against all opponents. You can't say with a straight face he plays the Avs well. Forget averages and everything else. When he plays the Avs he isn't good by his career standards nor by league standards.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Since you guys refused to do so I've posted his career numbers against all opponents. You can't say with a straight face he plays the Avs well.

This is irrelevant to what the point is and proves you don't understand what you are talking about.

 

[Shane Diesel]

This is irrelevant to what the point is and proves you don't understand what you are talking about.

Posting his actual numbers by opponent across his career isn't relevant? How do you figure? Explain it to me.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Posting his actual numbers by opponent across his career isn't relevant? How do you figure? Explain it to me.

Because that isn't the argument. His numbers vs San Jose has no impact on if he plays Colorado well or not.

 

[HockeyVirus]

We're 2 wins away from f***ing Stuart Skinner winning a cup as a starting goalie. Binnington would absolutely be good enough to win with (and he has proven that)

 

[Shane Diesel]

Because that isn't the argument. His numbers vs San Jose has no impact on if he plays Colorado well or not.

His numbers against Colorado are below his career SV%, that's playing an opponent well?

You're not giving me any sort of baseline or comparison. You're just say it's good because you think so.

I mean if we can't compare it to other teams or league averages then how do we even know what's good or bad.

 

[Drubilly]

We're 2 wins away from f***ing Stuart Skinner winning a cup as a starting goalie. Binnington would absolutely be good enough to win with (and he has proven that)

Nope! Not with those numbers against the Avalanche he won't!!