Player Discussion Joonas Korpisalo

[Over the volcano]

The whole Goalie Bob argument is nothing but a turd polisher.

If Essensa can make Korpisalo better than he’s been in the past (and therefore the trade is good), then you can say the same for any goaltender on the market who could have been signed for a tenth of Korpisalo’s contract (therefore invalidating the original argument).

That's only true if you assume he wasn't part of the decision making process of bringing Korpisalo in. I would think they'd ask him about what he thought of Korpisalo's struggles were and if they were fixable. But really I have no idea about the process

 

[Bruins4Lifer]

People read the 1st + Chychrun rumor and got all excited.

 

[LSCII]

Finally someone* that agrees with me that the Zadorov deal is f***ING INSANE.




*A computer

Which is stupid because so many more people should be upset by this pattern of Sweeney for overpaying bottom of the roster stiffs. Peeke and Zad are both grossly overpaid bottom pairing guys. Korpi is a grossly overpaid backup. You have massive holes on the top 6 and that money would have been far more helpful filling holes there instead of paying bottom paring guys

 

[Aussie Bruin]

Analytics suggest that the best value in the league is at the highest end. When they break down value created per $ cap hit, top end guys present as highly underpaid. Guys like McDavid and Matthews actually look like bargains when you plot it all out.

That makes sense, to a point. The counter-argument is you can't just look at it in raw terms. Yes guys like Pasta and Matthews are good value relative to their contributions when mapped against the entire playing group, but as any sensible Leafs fan should be able to tell you, hockey is very much a team sport and you can't over-rely on your top guys to get results. Spend too much on your top end and the odds are very high that lack of depth will bite you in the playoffs if not before. So that acts as a brake or limiting factor on what the top players in hockey get paid.

Not knocking your argument, just think you have to factor in the whole picture when assessing a contract's relative value. Looked at that way I would say that Pasta's contract is a good one, but I would dispute that he's underpaid once you look at what his peers are getting and consider the balance of the Bruins' roster as a whole. You can still get outliers - by any measure McDavid is underpaid right now - but perhaps not so many.

 

[wintersej]

The whole Goalie Bob argument is nothing but a turd polisher.

If Essensa can make Korpisalo better than he’s been in the past (and therefore the trade is good), then you can say the same for any goaltender on the market who could have been signed for a tenth of Korpisalo’s contract (therefore invalidating the original argument).

I think the fact that they have actually worked together before pokes some holes in this line of thinking. There is a difference between “goalies bob can fix everyone” and “goalie bob has worked with him before and knows him and thinks he can work on specific x and y”.

Edit: I mean I still hate the deal, but I don’t think that argument is without holes.

 

[PB37]

The whole Goalie Bob argument is nothing but a turd polisher.

If Essensa can make Korpisalo better than he’s been in the past (and therefore the trade is good), then you can say the same for any goaltender on the market who could have been signed for a tenth of Korpisalo’s contract (therefore invalidating the original argument).

Maybe part of it is they see what Korp's issues are and feel like those are correctable problems for the coaching staff vs other cheapo options out there. Plus the Bruins really wanted their spot back in the 1st round.

 

[The don godfather]

7th man award winner book it ! Everyone here will be a Donny bandwagon hopper again.

 

[The don godfather]

Finally someone* that agrees with me that the Zadorov deal is f***ING INSANE.




*A computer

Until he knocks leafs on their butt and sending them to the dressing room. I bet he becomes a fan favorite.

 

[EverettMike]

Until he knocks leafs on their butt and sending them to the dressing room. I bet he becomes a fan favorite.

Marty LaPointe 2.0.

 

[Aussie Bruin]

I think the fact that they have actually worked together before pokes some holes in this line of thinking. There is a difference between “goalies bob can fix everyone” and “goalie bob has worked with him before and knows him and thinks he can work on specific x and y”.

Edit: I mean I still hate the deal, but I don’t think that argument is without holes.

There's no proof they've ever worked together before apart from Sweeney's nonsensical and wholly unverified statement.

 

[Demon Eyes]

i don't even think Don said that Bob worked with Korp before. Only mention of LA i found

 

[The don godfather]

Pnly

Marty LaPointe 2.0.

Marty LaPointe 2.0.

Only 3 million backup most backup go for this price. Risk reward is high. Plays well and maybe get a draft pick for him on deadline.

 

[HustleB]

Sure, and a lot of the posters who are now fine with 25th overall, a part time 4th liner and a 3 year cap dump were saying that Ullmark for Necas was a thing. I think everyone was off on Ullmark's value, including Sweeney.

I originally expected more. Necas always felt unrealistic but maybe if the bruins added a 1st +. In the end the deal was underwhelming for the Bruins. The mntc played a large role in that. I do think it was more that the market was misjudged and it probably came down to having only one valid option after the MNTC was compared to demand.

Still I think there are two questions.
First question is how bad it is? It seems to me that part is quite exaggerated in some cases. If Korpisalo can play to the level of Halak and Khudobin in Boston then his value becomes fairly even and then this deal is pretty close to even as well. Still we paid for a lot of risk but they obviously love the draft pick and it seems like they had their guy Letourneau targeted all along. So maybe they see the risk but just value this pick more than others have.
Second question is whether we need to complain about these things? I would rather watch it play out rather than living on hard black and white stances before we have seen anything on the ice. I’m sure there are many people who thought that deal would have been better that are not complaining because that is no way to enjoy the Bruins or any other team.

By the way I get that this is a message board and people have different opinions but we have a lot of callouts lately that I just feel have been very odd. Like everyone needs to have the same feelings and level of anger or we are full of hypocrisy. I just really don’t think that’s the case.

 

[Dr Quincy]

I originally expected more. Necas always felt unrealistic but maybe if the bruins added a 1st +. In the end the deal was underwhelming for the Bruins. The mntc played a large role in that. I do think it was more that the market was misjudged and it probably came down to having only one valid option after the MNTC was compared to demand.

Still I think there are two questions.
First question is how bad it is? It seems to me that part is quite exaggerated in some cases. If Korpisalo can play to the level of Halak and Khudobin in Boston then his value becomes fairly even and then this deal is pretty close to even as well. Still we paid for a lot of risk but they obviously love the draft pick and it seems like they had their guy Letourneau targeted all along. So maybe they see the risk but just value this pick more than others have.
Second question is whether we need to complain about these things? I would rather watch it play out rather than living on hard black and white stances before we have seen anything on the ice. I’m sure there are many people who thought that deal would have been better that are not complaining because that is no way to enjoy the Bruins or any other team.

By the way I get that this is a message board and people have different opinions but we have a lot of callouts lately that I just feel have been very odd. Like everyone needs to have the same feelings and level of anger or we are full of hypocrisy. I just really don’t think that’s the case.

Mostly agree with everything except for the bolded.

Let's be clear here.... Boston didn't make Halak. Halak had 2 season pre-BOS where he received Vezina votes and All Star votes. Neither of which he did in BOS. He also won a Jennings trophy pre-BOS, as well as one w/ BOS.

He had 2 seasons w/ save % numbers better than his best year in BOS. 3 seasons better than his 2nd best, and a season tied with his 2nd best BOS season. He had 4 seasons better than his best year in BOS in gaa.

Khudobin also had his 2 best years outside of BOS. And All Star votes in 1 year. So in both of these cases we are talking about goalies who were successful outside of BOS, at an equal or greater than level.

Korpisalo has never received Vezina votes or All Star votes of any kind. He's had 2 stretches of play of great hockey:
9 games in the Covid Bubble playoffs (which he absolutely was great in)
11 games in the last month and a half after being traded to LA (he followed that up with 6 horrendous games in the playoffs that year)

I expect that he'll be better in BOS than he was in OTT and CBJ. He might be a "decent' back up.

But there's absolutely nothing that suggests he'll give them Halak or Khudobin level play, since Halak and Khudobin demonstrated that level before, during and after BOS and Koprisalo hasn't.

 

[HustleB]

Mostly agree with everything except for the bolded.

Let's be clear here.... Boston didn't make Halak. Halak had 2 season pre-BOS where he received Vezina votes and All Star votes. Neither of which he did in BOS. He also won a Jennings trophy pre-BOS, as well as one w/ BOS.

He had 2 seasons w/ save % numbers better than his best year in BOS. 3 seasons better than his 2nd best, and a season tied with his 2nd best BOS season. He had 4 seasons better than his best year in BOS in gaa.

Khudobin also had his 2 best years outside of BOS. And All Star votes in 1 year. So in both of these cases we are talking about goalies who were successful outside of BOS, at an equal or greater than level.

Korpisalo has never received Vezina votes or All Star votes of any kind. He's had 2 stretches of play of great hockey:
9 games in the Covid Bubble playoffs (which he absolutely was great in)
11 games in the last month and a half after being traded to LA (he followed that up with 6 horrendous games in the playoffs that year)

I expect that he'll be better in BOS than he was in OTT and CBJ. He might be a "decent' back up.

But there's absolutely nothing that suggests he'll give them Halak or Khudobin level play, since Halak and Khudobin demonstrated that level before, during and after BOS and Koprisalo hasn't.

That’s fair though it looks to me like Khudobin had two years back to back prior to his second stint in Boston which based on price and circumstance is really what we should be comparing. He played 14 games at a save percentage of 920 in 12-13’ before leaving and playing at a 926 pace for 34 games with Minnesota. He had only 5 games before those two seasons. And after those two seasons he dropped down to 900 and 909 save percentages over 43 games. Sure Khudobin rates better but it’s not as big a gap to me. Like maybe a slightly above average backup vs a slightly below average backup. Neither being guaranteed the job heading into camp if i remember correctly.

Halak was more experienced and a better gamble probably a strong step or maybe two above Khudobin at least at the time of acquisition. Halak also had a very comparable cap to Korpisalo without the downside of length or inconsistent results. It would be nice if Korpisalo matches his effectiveness in Boston but you make a great case about the original cost and expectations for Halak not being favorable to my argument. I cede the Halak portion of my argument.

 

[Kalus]

Pnly
Only 3 million backup most backup go for this price. Risk reward is high. Plays well and maybe get a draft pick for him on deadline.

He’d have to play really, and I mean REALLY well to get a team to take on the remaining 3+ years at $3M into his mid 30s for a guy who has done a bad job stopping pucks most of his career (career .901 save % for goodness sakes).

 

[wintersej]

There's no proof they've ever worked together before apart from Sweeney's nonsensical and wholly unverified statement.

So your stance is that it is more likely that Sweeney just made it up?

 

[PB37]

So your stance is that it is more likely that Sweeney just made it up?

Unless there's video of Sweeney saying it, it might have been lost in translation by a reporter who thought he heard him say that but Sweeney said something else. I can't see the Bruins loaning their goalie coach out to the Kings unless maybe it was offseason workouts that he was allowed to attend in his free time. Kinda like how McKinnon, Crosby, and Marchand all work out together in the offseason.

If you have any faith at all in the Bruins structure, McQuaid, now Leach and goalie Bob you can't say the Peeke/Korpisalo weren't a waste of money. Doesn't mean both can't or won't be good, but both seem to be a luxury when you can't ice a bonafide top 6 because of cap space.

They probably look for a certain baseline they can work with and attributes they feel would work best in their system rather then just plucking any project out there that needs work.

 

[Dr Quincy]

They probably look for a certain baseline they can work with and attributes they feel would work best in their system rather then just plucking any project out there that needs work.

When it comes to drafting or UFA signings, sure.

I think this was a case of "Look, you have to take Korpisalo in the deal..." from OTT and Sweeney was focused on getting a 1st and moving on from the duo.

I don't think this is a case of them targeting Korpisalo. It was just the price to get the pick they wanted.

 

[CellyHard]

When it comes to drafting or UFA signings, sure.

I think this was a case of "Look, you have to take Korpisalo in the deal..." from OTT and Sweeney was focused on getting a 1st and moving on from the duo.

I don't think this is a case of them targeting Korpisalo. It was just the price to get the pick they wanted.

Can I say I think it was a little bit of both? I don't think Korpisalo was targeted, I think it was a 1st + (Ostapchuk) or something to that degree, however, it was based on Ullmark signing an extension.

If Ullmark was to sign and extension, the Senators would still need to have moved Korpisalo. I think thats when the Flyers trade rumors started to come into place. I think it involved Korpi + 7 for pick 13

Flyers have a bit of a sketchy goaltending situation so it makes sense and they wanted to trade up at the time.

When Ullmark refused to sign an extension, it became exactly what you said "Look, you have to take Korpisalo to get the 1st"

Sweeney settled on Kastelic for the add-on and retention on Korpi and here we are

All things being said, I do think there is truth to goalie Bob being able to revitalize Korpi because I don't think they would have taken on 3 x 4 contract without the belief he can return to form

 

[PB37]

When it comes to drafting or UFA signings, sure.

I think this was a case of "Look, you have to take Korpisalo in the deal..." from OTT and Sweeney was focused on getting a 1st and moving on from the duo.

I don't think this is a case of them targeting Korpisalo. It was just the price to get the pick they wanted.

I don't think so either, I think they were more motivated to grab their 1st back and to get back any sort of cap relief they could.

 

[Mad-Marcus]

Halak had stolen a playoff series when in MNTL, actually had a great run that PO year, in spite of the 9-9 record. I believe Price was hurt.

 

[Sevendust]

When it comes to drafting or UFA signings, sure.

I think this was a case of "Look, you have to take Korpisalo in the deal..." from OTT and Sweeney was focused on getting a 1st and moving on from the duo.

I don't think this is a case of them targeting Korpisalo. It was just the price to get the pick they wanted.

Sweeney had a draft party organized and held interviews with potential first round picks. He was keen on getting in the first round no matter what and as a result got fleeced by a rookie gm. The real absurd part is that he possibly is fighting with the Swayman camp about a difference of 1-2 million per year on his next contract while taking on the Korpisalo contract ...

 

[Aussie Bruin]

So your stance is that it is more likely that Sweeney just made it up?

I'm giving Sweens the benefit of the doubt that he simply mis-spoke and was trying to say something other than what came out. However I also think there's plenty of evidence out there to suggest he's not past straight up lying when it suits.

Unless there's video of Sweeney saying it, it might have been lost in translation by a reporter who thought he heard him say that but Sweeney said something else. I can't see the Bruins loaning their goalie coach out to the Kings unless maybe it was offseason workouts that he was allowed to attend in his free time. Kinda like how McKinnon, Crosby, and Marchand all work out together in the offseason.



They probably look for a certain baseline they can work with and attributes they feel would work best in their system rather then just plucking any project out there that needs work.

There's video - it's in post #61 of this thread. Sweeney literally said "Bob did a lot of work with Joonas when he played his best hockey in LA". Offseason theory doesn't work because Korpisalo only joined the Kings mid-season and left after that playoffs. So just a real head-scratcher.

 

[PB37]

I'm giving Sweens the benefit of the doubt that he simply mis-spoke and was trying to say something other than what came out. However I also think there's plenty of evidence out there to suggest he's not past straight up lying when it suits.



There's video - it's in post #61 of this thread. Sweeney literally said "Bob did a lot of work with Joonas when he played his best hockey in LA". Offseason theory doesn't work because Korpisalo only joined the Kings mid-season and left after that playoffs. So just a real head-scratcher.

Yeah, that is a bit strange. Maybe he's getting his players mixed up or maybe teams are allowed to get help from skills coaches from other teams. Seems kinda weird.