I wonder if the NHL wouldn't be better for Raymond because there is more structure and, arguably, a less physical style. I've seen him listed at 5'11'' 183lbs, it's not like he's slightly built. I don't think it would be crazy to see both Bergrren and Raymond start the year in Detroit.
Jonatan Berggren
- Thread starter Richard Gibson
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I wonder if the NHL wouldn't be better for Raymond because there is more structure and, arguably, a less physical style. I've seen him listed at 5'11'' 183lbs, it's not like he's slightly built. I don't think it would be crazy to see both Bergrren and Raymond start the year in Detroit.
OgeeOgelthorpe
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I'm not worried about Raymond's skill level in Grand Rapids. I'm worried about the guy still looking like he weighs 160 soaking wet in his gear.
I'm also worried about the dump-and-don't-chase style of Grand Rapids. Admittedly, I only watched a couple of games this year, but last season watching Grand Rapids was painful. I really hope they evolve their game as more skill is added to the team with our prospects.
newfy
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Its possible. I would see how he looks in camp and make a decision from there. Coming to North America gives the option of either place. If the NHL is still a little fast for him he can go to Grand Rapids, unlike in Sweden where if Frolunda decides to play him 14 mins a game again, hes stuck.
But its not like small, skilled guys can hack it in the AHL. Nylander hopped over and was dominant pretty quick. Raymond is a much stronger player on his feet/overall than someone like Hirose who is a really good player down there as well
The Griffins play that style of hockey because of who they have. This gets repeated on here all the time and its frustrating to hear, because like you said, its usually people who dont watch the Griffins play. I've been watching them since redwingslive was still a thing. The Griffins have a bunch of players who dont have the skill set to play a puck possession game and the few who do, dont dump and chase. Hirose and Barber arent out there chasing around pucks in the corners, but almost everyone else is because they dont have the talent to do it a different way. Ben Simon isnt saying f*** it, I'm old school, lets dump and chase. Hes working with what he has. Who is expected to carry the puck over with possession besides Hirose or Barber down there? Elson, Spezia, MLeod, Pearson etc etc arent possession players
People love to rag on Blashill for having a dump and chase system in the NHL, but when he was coaching a calder cup championship team down in Grand Rapids, everyone on this board sucked him off for his quick transition, puck possession system. I'm not worried about that with Simon because the players with talent are allowed to play to their strength.... the dump and chase thing is just always evident in the AHL because guys down there arent as skilled.
I have no reason to believe Raymond wont be allowed to play on a talented line like Hirose/Veleno or Berggren or Barber and play a high skill, possession style game if hes there next season
jaster
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Yep. He's the type of complementary player who needs the right linemates in order to be doing the complementing. I can see him working with Vrana... Zadina... Fabbri. Hell, maybe even Erne on a sneaky good 3rd-line kinda setup.
OgeeOgelthorpe
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I hope what we saw out of Veleno's last 5 games in Detroit is enough to get him on the roster this fall full time. I think he's shown enough chops to be at least capable enough to replace what we had this year. We will see during training camp and preseason but I'm hoping he and Rasmussen stick and they stick because they force the Coaches and Managements hand.
With that being said, that would be a potentially really fun line to see in Grand Rapids. Their skillsets tend to complement eachother too. Raymond can shoot and be a playmaker, Berggren can skate with the puck and open things up, and Veleno I see as a jack of all trades type player with a focus on being the defensively responsible one on the line. From what I've seen of Raymond, Veleno can even open it up offensively a bit because Raymond appears to be a puck hound type winger also.
Richard Gibson
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Oft injured? Not really. He had one relatively major injury this year related to an old injury. His ice time was contingent on Frolunda's play as a team. He was limited at 5 on 5 and he had a role on the powerplay, not the PK. If Frolunda drew penalties, Raymond's ice time went up. If they took a bunch of penalties, his ice time went down.
He was bigger, stronger, and faster than his draft year, but he absolutely does need some more time to develop physically before he'll be able to be the best version of himself. That being said, he is easily ready for the AHL and will probably be the best player on the Griffins from the moment he arrives.
heyfolks
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Anything to be made of Berggren NOT filing for arbitration?
themalikreport.com
Long story long, the Wings didn’t file for salary arbitration with Jonatan Berggren
I’ll admit that, the day after the Red Wings’ summer development camp ended, I was hoping that I could get a break. I assumed that the NHL would release its list of restricted free agen…
themalikreport.com
norrisnick
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Arb just blocks offer sheets, right? He probably just doesn't want the BS of the hearing which helps no one. By not filing he is free to sign a deal he likes. From anyone.Anything to be made of Berggren NOT filing for arbitration?
Long story long, the Wings didn’t file for salary arbitration with Jonatan Berggren
I’ll admit that, the day after the Red Wings’ summer development camp ended, I was hoping that I could get a break. I assumed that the NHL would release its list of restricted free agen…
Steve Yzerlland
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I doubt he gets an offer sheet from anyone. It's not like he has any real NHL stats to warrant that.
Henkka
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heyfolks
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While I disagree that his stats do not warrant an offer sheet, the Wings would likely match any reasonable offer. Up to 1.5 they'd get nothing in return. 1,5 to 2.2 they get a 3rd round pick. It wouldn't go any higher, but I wouldn't trade Burger for a 3rd rounder.
Lampedampe
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What do people think of his season so far?
I've been a believer of the kid for some time. He's 24 now, he's been slow-cooked but he has over a 100 NHL games. I'm starting to feel like what we see now is what we'll get.
Question is, will it be enough to keep him in the NHL?
What i see is a skilled player with great vision and passing, but it's not enough to overcome his lack in strength and speed. At this point i'd prefer if they give another kid a shot.
I've been a believer of the kid for some time. He's 24 now, he's been slow-cooked but he has over a 100 NHL games. I'm starting to feel like what we see now is what we'll get.
Question is, will it be enough to keep him in the NHL?
What i see is a skilled player with great vision and passing, but it's not enough to overcome his lack in strength and speed. At this point i'd prefer if they give another kid a shot.
OgeeOgelthorpe
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I still think there’s enough in his game to be a Mats Zuccarello kind of 2nd line playmaker one day. The problem is Kane and DBC have that on lock, and his linemates kind of suck at offense right now. He needs overtime to prove himself, but I don’t think Burgers will get that in Detroit.
Ultimately, I like him but would trade him if a roster upgrade could be made.
norrisnick
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Put him on an actual scoring line with actual scoring line players. Playing a scorer with corpses and/or checkers is setting him up to fail.
Barry Amsterdam
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keep burgers around. He will eventually… take kanes spot as the playmaking wing once he leaves or retires
Lampedampe
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Has he done enough to prove that he should be on a scoring line?
I get that that Tarasenko hasn't looked great this season, but he has a history of scoring. He scored more last year when he wasn't paired with Berggren, i'm not gonna put it all on Berggren though. For me it's not only the lack of scoring, i just don't think he looks like a impactful player out there, and he should be able to even when playing with corpses.
I think he's doing enough to make another team think he can do more.
Peter Tosh
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He has the skills to score on a break-away, but is rarely involved in anything constructive. I was hoping that he would start to perform after his goal, but went right back to being invisible. My guess is that he’s on the block and will be part of a trade
I've never been a big believer and he is going to need to find a gear to stick around the NHL. Ive always thought of him settling in as that AAAA/star in a euro league type of player.
He shows flashes but 1 point every 4 games won't cut it if you're not a physical player/defensive presence on the 3rd line.
If we can package him for a defensive upgrade I would be all over that.
He shows flashes but 1 point every 4 games won't cut it if you're not a physical player/defensive presence on the 3rd line.
If we can package him for a defensive upgrade I would be all over that.
Pavels Dog
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His defensive effort has improved tremendously imo.
Also drawing a good number of penalties.
Given his icetime the scoring isn't terrible and, much like Kasper, the on-ice sh% is low.
Would I hesitate to include him in a trade for a legit upgrade to our roster? Not really. But I'm more than fine with him sticking around. I absolutely see the potential for him to break out offensively at the NHL level.
Also drawing a good number of penalties.
Given his icetime the scoring isn't terrible and, much like Kasper, the on-ice sh% is low.
Would I hesitate to include him in a trade for a legit upgrade to our roster? Not really. But I'm more than fine with him sticking around. I absolutely see the potential for him to break out offensively at the NHL level.
