In Memoriam Johnny Gaudreau & Matthew Gaudreau killed by drunk driver while cycling (MOD WARNING. No Flaming, Trolling, or Politics.)

[PenguinSuitedUp]

But you are making it about your feelings, though. You are completely ignoring the context and making some weird leaps of logic.

The distinction between an homicide and a murder matters.

It matters much less than people trying to suggest the guy should only face 10 or less years in jail.

Again, this isn’t about feelings. This is about a guy who took peoples’ lives by intentionally violating the law and selfishly valuing 5 minutes of his time over a combined 120 years of life that two people could have lived if not for his actions.

 

[Guttersniped]

Juuuuust barely over the legal limit matters not. It's a yes or a no. Homie was over the legal limit. Full stop.

Yes he was driving like a psycho. He was also drunk. It's impossible for me to sit here and say 100% whether the drinking had any impact on his road rage in this moment, but I don't think the law allows for the benefit of doubt here...nor should it IMO.

He had an open container in the car and admitted to drinking while he was driving.

So he wasn’t sobering up when it happened.

Higgins told police he had five or six beers that day and admitted to consuming alcohol while driving, according to the criminal complaint. He also failed a field sobriety test, the complaint said. A prosecutor on Friday said he had been drinking at home after finishing a work call at about 3 p.m., and having an upsetting conversation with his mother about a family matter.

He then had a two-hour phone call with a friend while he drove around in his Jeep with an open container, Flynn said. He had been driving aggressively behind a sedan going just above the 50 mph speed limit, sometimes tailgating, the driver told police.

New details revealed during court hearing for suspect in deaths of Gaudreau brothers

Sean Higgins' wife said he had been drinking regularly and had a history of "driving like a nut," prosecutors said.

6abc.com

 

[x Tame Impala]

It is semantics. The guy made a selfish decision- not a mistake- a conscious decision to risk other people’s lives. He killed two people. And you want to argue down the term of his sentence because of language.

We have a legal system built on centuries of discourse over these matters. It isn’t semantics, as a society we’ve purposefully made these legal distinctions for a reason.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

We have a legal system built on centuries of discourse over these matters. It isn’t semantics, as a society we’ve purposefully made these legal distinctions for a reason.

The guy killed two people with selfish action and you’re worried about verbiage.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

The guy killed two people with selfish action and you’re worried about verbiage.

To be fair, the legal system is also "worried about verbiage" and that's what matters in a criminal trial.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

To be fair, the legal system is also "worried about verbiage" and that's what matters in a criminal trial.

And it appears that an appointed official suggested 30 years based on the legal system. And people are suggesting it’s harsh. Crazy.

 

[tarheelhockey]

It is semantics. The guy made a selfish decision- not a mistake- a conscious decision to risk other people’s lives. He killed two people. And you want to argue down the term of his sentence because of language.

It’s literally NOT semantics. There are different legal codes and different definitions for different words based on the commonly understood (and largely common-sense) distinctions between killing someone accidentally, killing someone negligently, killing someone recklessly, and killing someone deliberately.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

Again nobody is missing the big picture. There’s a legitimate debate as to what the penalty should be when a careless/negligent action results in death. It is not conceptually the same scenario as deliberate murder, so the penalty will not be the same.

He took a combined amount of years away from two people that equate to more than his total lifespan. 30 years is cheap, regardless of whether or not it was intentional murder murder as the result of an intentional
Illegal action. He should be in for life.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

It’s literally NOT semantics. There are different legal codes and different definitions for different words based on the commonly understood (and largely common-sense) distinctions between killing someone accidentally, killing someone negligently, killing someone recklessly, and killing someone deliberately.

Killing, killing, killing. Got it. He killed two people way too early in their lives and 30 years is too much. Sounds reasonable.

 

[x Tame Impala]

He took a combined amount of years away from two people that equate to more than his total lifespan. 30 years is cheap, regardless of whether or not it was intentional murder murder as the result of an intentional
Illegal action. He should be in for life.

So the legal system means nothing to you?

 

[tarheelhockey]

He took a combined amount of years away from two people that equate to more than his total lifespan. 30 years is cheap, regardless of whether or not it was intentional murder murder as the result of an intentional
Illegal action. He should be in for life.

So if you commit a traffic violation and strike someone causing their death, you should go to prison for the rest of your life? Including, say, forgetting to check your blind spot before you change lanes? Making a turn in front of an oncoming vehicle that you didn’t see? Driving 58 in a 55?

I understand where you’re coming from emotionally, but locking people up for life is a very heavy-handed penalty for anything that could be described as unintentional, which the actual striking of the cyclists certainly was.

 

[SteelCityCannon]

Is this really the place for law minutiae arguments?

 

[SladeWilson23]

You don't think drinking and driving, let alone recklessly driving on top of that, indicates intent?

He didn't intend to end anybody's lives. That's the point.

 

[McShogun99]

So if you commit a traffic violation and strike someone causing their death, you should go to prison for the rest of your life? Including, say, forgetting to check your blind spot before you change lanes? Making a turn in front of an oncoming vehicle that you didn’t see? Driving 58 in a 55?

I understand where you’re coming from emotionally, but locking people up for life is a very heavy-handed penalty for anything that could be described as unintentional, which the actual striking of the cyclists certainly was.

There should be leniency for a regular traffic accident but in this case the driver was drunk, driving aggressively and broke road laws. In my opinion, anyone that makes the choice to get behind the wheel drunk and ends up killing someone should be charged similar to murder.

 

[Kahvi]

Is this really the place for law minutiae arguments?

It shouldnt be, and mod should delete most of the last few pages.

Have some respect everyone

 

[SladeWilson23]

It is semantics. The guy made a selfish decision- not a mistake- a conscious decision to risk other people’s lives. He killed two people. And you want to argue down the term of his sentence because of language.

I think you need to understand what semantics means. They are still very different things. Making the argument that ending someone's life should all be treated the same is very lazy thinking.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Agreed - let's move on. (This is an official HFBoards staff statement and shall be interpreted as such.)

Anyone in before this post is grandfathered in.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Was he actually over the limit? The body cam footage made him seem somewhat sober

Yes

 

[tarheelhockey]

There should be leniency for a regular traffic accident but in this case the driver was drunk, driving aggressively and broke road laws. In my opinion, anyone that makes the choice to get behind the wheel drunk and ends up killing someone should be charged similar to murder.

To be fair to the system here, it sounds like the prosecutors are ready to press for the lower end of what a double-murder convict would get.

 

[Lt Dan]

Was he actually over the limit? The body cam footage made him seem somewhat sober

I was curious myself so i googled

Higgins had a blood-alcohol level of .087, which is above the state's .08 legal limit, and failed a field sobriety test, police said. He is being held on charges that include two counts each of aggravated manslaughter and vehicular homicide, along with evidence tampering and leaving the scene of an accident.

Driver accused in DUI crash that killed Gaudreau brothers rejects plea deal

Sean Higgins had a post-indictment arraignment hearing, where he rejected a plea deal that would have seen him spend decades in prison.

6abc.com

 

[M88K]

He didn't intend to end anybody's lives. That's the point.

So if i take my gun out and start shooting in peoples general direction, I shouldn't be charged with murder? Because I didn't mean to end their life.
I mean I was just being reckless and putting everyone's life in danger by my own choice.
Who would have thought driving a couple thousand pound vehicle while drunk, aggressively on top of that, would kill someone. By god that's like 1 in a million chance. And the 2 person multiplier, Dude probably should play the Lotto with that kind of luck.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

So if you commit a traffic violation and strike someone causing their death, you should go to prison for the rest of your life? Including, say, forgetting to check your blind spot before you change lanes? Making a turn in front of an oncoming vehicle that you didn’t see? Driving 58 in a 55?

I understand where you’re coming from emotionally, but locking people up for life is a very heavy-handed penalty for anything that could be described as unintentional, which the actual striking of the cyclists certainly was.

Yes he should be in prison for life. This current trend of trying to decrease accountability for peoples’ actions is atrocious.

Someone who intends on killing someone in cold blood should absolutely be punished more harshly than someone who never intended to kill anyone who still happens to kill someone. Yes.

Yes. Someone who intentionally murders somebody else should get the death penalty.

 

[The Burdened]

Due process. Let it play out.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Yes he should be in prison for life. This current trend of trying to decrease accountability for peoples’ actions is atrocious.


Yes. Someone who intentionally murders somebody else should get the death penalty.

You never took even a freshman level criminal justice class, have you?

For the record I hope this guy gets max sentence. He’s an irresponsible asshole and he ruined multiple family’s lives with his reckless behavior

 

[Mike C]

Look, I ain't absolving him of guilt my son. I never said that. You intimated that one on your own.

1000s of people die like this every year. Where's the hue and cry for them?

It's there in our hearts. Just not posted on the hockey board

Due process. Let it play out.

Yeah. And failing that let's go vigilante justice!!