Player Discussion John Tavares: The man, the myth, the legend

[Antropovsky]

I guess we have to re-sign JT to another overpayment so we don't make the same mistake we did by letting Jason ''60pts in 66 games'' Allison go and god forbid we don't bring mumbles back to completely ruin the entire primes of Willie and M&M .

Also how'd it look on his already extremely modest NHL legacy if we let him walk then immediately started making deep playoffs runs like the Islanders did after JT left them .

Yup Islanders playoff runs after Tavarea left certainly had mpre to do with him sucking and nothing to do with changing from rookie coach Doug Weight to Barry Trotz.

We are already a team needing center help. 2c is a big hole to fill.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Get this guy signed up pronto.

6 x 10 milly

 

[disgruntleddave]

Of all guys up for a contract, I really won't be surprised if tavares takes deferred money to reduce his cap hit.

 

[hotpaws]

Yup Islanders playoff runs after Tavarea left certainly had mpre to do with him sucking and nothing to do with changing from rookie coach Doug Weight to Barry Trotz.

We are already a team needing center help. 2c is a big hole to fill.

All i heard for the 9 yrs JT was on the Island was how horrible the talent around him was and how poor JT had to play with a team comprised of all AHLers so yes JT leaving and them not having to revolve there entire team around him was by far the main reason for there deep playoff runs .

but who knows , maybe the Islanders getting much better without him and us spinning our wheels with him is just coincidence lol

and 2nd line C was the least of our needs when we made him the highest paid player in the NHL at the time of his signing

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Oh boy. Good thing you're not the GM then..

Spezza and Gio were nowhere near the ppg stud we are talking about here. That is not apples to oranges, that's not even the same food group!! They were literal shadows of their former selves.

Heres your actual comparable --> Stamkos same age, same stats - was 4 yrs at 8M last year. That is the current comparison for JT. So Tone was right - bit of a pipe dream on 4M.

A discount on 8 is something with a 6 hopefully.. but that would be a literal giveaway gift of a hometown discount.

FFS, seriously? We're finally about to have some cap space available and you want to immediately piss it away paying $6-8M on a player that will be 35 when the contract kicks in? Yeah, spending half the cap on 4 players has worked out so far right? And you question my GM skills?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Have 5 of the best hockey players at one time Leafs have ever had, in my Time. 31 lossers in the league a year. If you can't handle the odds maybe hockey isn't your sport.

Hockey's a team sport.

Seems like a lot of value is put on game 7 performances, more value than any other game. Scoring a game winner in a game 7 should set aside any notions some have that certain players can’t handle the pressure.

JT scored a game 7 winner?

Literally winning it means scoring the winning goal. Twice.

No one player has ever won a series. The team won the series.

 

[TopCheeseShotta]

No one player has ever won a series. The team won the series

But.. he kinda did. Twice. Who else has??

FFS, seriously? We're finally about to have some cap space available and you want to immediately piss it away paying $6-8M on a player that will be 35 when the contract kicks in? Yeah, spending half the cap on 4 players has worked out so far right? And you question my GM skills?

You have to operate in reality my guy. 4M is not reality. I just don't want you to get all dead set and 'principled' about your 4 mill dream, something that will never happen in this universe unless he's a martyr - only for JT to hurt your lil' feelings all over again.

 

[arso40]

But.. he kinda did. Twice. Who else has??

You have to operate in reality my guy. 4M is not reality. I just don't want you to get all dead set and 'principled' about your 4 mill dream, something that will never happen in this universe unless he's a martyr - only for JT to hurt your lil' feelings all over again.

Jt ah your bwoi eh?

 

[thewave]

From washed up to amulet. What a shift.

 

[TopCheeseShotta]

Jt ah your bwoi eh?

Da mon is a don Dada top cheese shotta..!! Mi luv 'im like cook'd food, bredren..!

But only cuz he came home, takes this shyt from these ungrateful sore losers - had his best Career year in his first year as a Leaf (who does that??) - annnnnnd he's point per game againnnnnnn... in Year SEVEN of the deal all these ingrates thought would age poorly!!!!! Gotta love that if you love this team.

Top 3 Free Agent signings in Leaf History.

 

[Schennanigans]

He’s gonna end 2024 at atleast a ppg rate.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

But.. he kinda did. Twice. Who else has??

You have to operate in reality my guy. 4M is not reality. I just don't want you to get all dead set and 'principled' about your 4 mill dream, something that will never happen in this universe unless he's a martyr - only for JT to hurt your lil' feelings all over again.

Yeah, you're probably right. Let's just stick with what's worked, right? Remember how great the Marleau contract was for the team when he was the same age and got paid $6.5x3? Those were the salad days! Again, I'm not saying Tavares' market value is only $4M, I'm saying anything more and I'm spending my money elsewhere. He can take one for the team or move on.

 

[TopCheeseShotta]

Remember how great the Marleau contract was for the team when he was the same age and got paid $6.5x3?

You're moving to Marleau now?!? Oh boy..

That was a colossal bonehead signing, but again - you're talking 2 different stratospheres here..! By the time he played for Toronto, Marleau had been a 45 point guy for 2 years prior with SJ - and that's exactly what he did with us that next year. He had fallen off at 31 - while JT is a perennial point-per-game pacer his entireeeee career, save for a dip last year.

So, you're saying you know 4 is insane to expect, but you're gonna demand it anyway - and then be upset if an actual hometown discount comes across..? Ok.. well prepare to be disappointed just because youve set an arbitrary maximum that has nothing to do with reality, I guess..

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

You're moving to Marleau now?!? Oh boy..

That was a colossal bonehead signing, but again - you're talking 2 different stratospheres here..! By the time he played for Toronto, Marleau had been a 45 point guy for 2 years prior with SJ - and that's exactly what he did with us that next year. He had fallen off at 31 - while JT is a perennial point-per-game pacer his entireeeee career, save for a dip last year.

So, you're saying you know 4 is insane to expect, but you're gonna demand it anyway - and then be upset if an actual hometown discount comes across..? Ok.. well prepare to be disappointed just because youve set an arbitrary maximum that has nothing to do with reality, I guess..

You have no way of knowing if Tavares will continue at his current pace over the next few years. In fact I don't think I'm crazy thinking he'll be a 45 point guy soon.

Lemme phrase this all another way. If you only had cap space for one or the other, who would you sign: Tavares or Chychrun (assuming he was available)?

 

[All Mod Cons]

We have to protect the core 4 at all costs. The thought of any of them playing for another team turns my stomach. We can easily cut costs elsewhere. Just get all 4 locked up.

 

[TopCheeseShotta]

You have no way of knowing if Tavares will continue at his current pace over the next few years. In fact I don't think I'm crazy thinking he'll be a 45 point guy soon.

Lemme phrase this all another way. If you only had cap space for one or the other, who would you sign: Tavares or Chychrun (assuming he was available)?

Its not crazy to think his production might drop. But you're crazy comparing the 2. Still two different ballparks.. JT scored more goals in his supposed down year (29!!!!), then Marleau had in the previous 4 years before signing that dumbazz deal with us. It's definitely not as likely, and not to that degree for sure.

And ain't no world where Jacob is coming here, cuz he probably wouldn't have the sac to come here like JT did. Moreso though, it would never boil down to some fantasy "either or" based on John's 6 Million. It might be because we're paying pantload Morgan 7.5 to walk away from work every night, but that's a whole other discussion. But why you're creating mythical boogeyman stories to isolate John's paycheck as the only threat, is truly puzzling. That's why you respect the discount from 7 or 8, if and when it comes.

 

[Gary Nylund]

But.. he kinda did. Twice. Who else has??

We don't seem to be speaking the same language so I'll leave you to it.

 

[Its not your fault]

Hockey's a team sport.

JT scored a game 7 winner?

No one player has ever won a series. The team won the series.

Hockey is a team sport so what do you mean by that? An extra team doesn't win just because they played well together.

 

[ToneDog]

JT's on a PPG can probably can get $7-8m on the open market. Leafs and JT need to be creative to get that cap hit down like they did Tanev who is being paid $27m for hopefully 3-4 good years but his AAV is $4.5m.

JT @ $7-8mx3 over 6 years gives you a cap hit of $3.5-$4m. It is doable.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Its not crazy to think his production might drop. But you're crazy comparing the 2. Still two different ballparks.. JT scored more goals in his supposed down year (29!!!!), then Marleau had in the previous 4 years before signing that dumbazz deal with us. It's definitely not as likely, and not to that degree for sure.

And ain't no world where Jacob is coming here, cuz he probably wouldn't have the sac to come here like JT did. Moreso though, it would never boil down to some fantasy "either or" based on John's 6 Million. It might be because we're paying pantload Morgan 7.5 to walk away from work every night, but that's a whole other discussion. But why you're creating mythical boogeyman stories to isolate John's paycheck as the only threat, is truly puzzling. That's why you respect the discount from 7 or 8, if and when it comes.

You said upwards of $8M BTW. And if we're talking market value and a non-team friendly deal, that's probably accurate. My entire point is that money should be spent elsewhere than on a 35 year old forward.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Hockey is a team sport so what do you mean by that? An extra team doesn't win just because they played well together.

What do I mean by what? And what do you mean by "extra team"?

You said upwards of $8M BTW. And if we're talking market value and a non-team friendly deal, that's probably accurate. My entire point is that money should be spent elsewhere than on a 35 year old forward.

This seems prudent.

 

[hotpaws]

This board wanted to run Marner out of town because of his sub par playoffs coming off an injury but at the same time are desperate to overpay Tavares as well as trying to make it look it look like he's doing us a favor even though he's been a playoff dud his entire time here , you can't make this shit up , lol .

T-Bay let Stamkos walk after a 40/40 season because they knew while he could still play it was Kuch and Point driving the play but here in Toronto some believe the world will end if we don't overpay Tavares even though he's totally reliant on his linemates to drive the play and create offensive opportunities for him .

 

[ToneDog]

This board wanted to run Marner out of town because of his sub par playoffs coming off an injury but at the same time are desperate to overpay Tavares as well as trying to make it look it look like he's doing us a favor even though he's been a playoff dud his entire time here , you can't make this shit up , lol .

T-Bay let Stamkos walk after a 40/40 season because they knew while he could still play it was Kuch and Point driving the play but here in Toronto some believe the world will end if we don't overpay Tavares even though he's totally reliant on his linemates to drive the play and create offensive opportunities for him .

Stammer:

Tavares

I am no fan of overpaying anybody, especially after being overpaid and not living up to their paychecks in the playoffs. Tavares can probably get $7-8m on the open market but I'm guessing he takes less from the Leafs. Stammer was not giving Tampa any discount.

Of course if you can get a Jake Guentzel for $1m more than Tavares, you walk away from Tavares.

 

[hotpaws]

Stammer:

View attachment 953830

Tavares

View attachment 953831

I am no fan of overpaying anybody, especially after being overpaid and not living up to their paychecks in the playoffs. Tavares can probably get $7-8m on the open market but I'm guessing he takes less from the Leafs. Stammer was not giving Tampa any discount.

Of course if you can get a Jake Guentzel for $1m more than Tavares, you walk away from Tavares.

and JT would have similar if not worse numbers if he was on the Preds without someone to drive the play for him

Stammer gave the Bolts a discount , a real discount not the pretend one people are trying to spin JT giving us when we made him the highest paid player in the league at the time of his singing


i also have no idea why anyone would want to re-sign JT at any price considering how poor he is in the playoffs , i guess they listen to him speak , believe there's something off and feel sorry for him

 

[ToneDog]

and JT would have similar if not worse numbers if he was on the Preds without someone to drive the play for him

Stammer gave the Bolts a discount , a real discount not the pretend one people are trying to spin JT giving us when we made him the highest paid player in the league at the time of his singing


i also have no idea why anyone would want to re-sign JT at any price considering how poor he is in the playoffs , i guess they listen to him speak , believe there's something off and feel sorry for him

He's been good this year. My position with him and Marner is, sign them if they give us a sweet deal or wait until the playoffs. If JT and/or Marner lay eggs in the playoffs, you walk or ask for bigger discounts, especially JT because he will be your #3C/#2LW.

As for Stammer giving a discount to Tampa, the accountants on this board will tell you his take home from Tampa was more than what it would have been in most other markets.