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Injury Report: John Moore Concussed (3/22/14)

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eco's bones said:
Moore's progressively gotten better since being paired with Klein. Not sure I'd say Diaz is better.
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Agree. I have seen Diaz have some real Del Zottoesque games back with MTL. He is however, much more confident with the puck than either of those two are. Problem with Diaz is that he even though he likes to jump into the play he is sometimes too aggressive (which leads to chances for the opposing team) and his plays don't translate into goals scored often enough for him to be as aggressive as he is.

If he stays a shoot first defenseman and eases up slightly on his eagerness to join the rush, he will be a perfect 6th if Stralman leaves.
 
Gardner McKay said:
Agree. I have seen Diaz have some real Del Zottoesque games back with MTL. He is however, much more confident with the puck than either of those two are. Problem with Diaz is that he even though he likes to jump into the play he is sometimes too aggressive (which leads to chances for the opposing team) and his plays don't translate into goals scored often enough for him to be as aggressive as he is.

If he stays a shoot first defenseman and eases up slightly on his eagerness to join the rush, he will be a perfect 6th if Stralman leaves.
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I could live with that. Although I'm not as sold on Moore as most of you. I hope he improves, but I actually would like to see Allen up next year to see what he can do and slot someone on their off-side.

I don't think Moore is a steady enough D-Man on a contender.
 
AHB said:
Why does a player have to be in the top 4 to be considered to crack a teams top 6? I've watched Diaz over his career in Montreal. I know the game he plays. Why do you think I'm judging him off of one single game? Guess what, I'm not.

Diaz is a better player then Moore. Everyone seemed to be shocked last night when he played well, I wasn't, I expected it. In fact, I was furious that it took an injury to Moore for Diaz to even get playing time when he is clearly the better player right now.

Moore may have future top-4 potential. I don't think he ever puts that together, but to each there own. It is true, Moore's ceiling is higher, since Diaz is older. But Diaz is a fantastic #5/6 right now. He's very steady. I know he'll never be a true #4, but I'm not asking him to be. In my opinion, for most of the year, Moore has not played well. He's settled in since Klein got here, but is still not anything special. Diaz is the better player. I have no doubt and that comes from watching him over the course of the past few seasons, not one Ranger game. Which again, was not some sort of anomaly. That is the type of player he is.

Also, if you think I'm lying and still don't know anything about Diaz, go over to the Habs board and ask their fans what they think of him. They'll tell you exactly the same thing I'm saying. The guy is a legit bottom pairing guy. He sure as hell isn't a #7
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The key player on the third pair is Klein. I'm not sure exactly who was shocked that Diaz had a good game last night. Most people here I would assume anyway are cognizant of the fact that Diaz has a decent amount of NHL experience--less games than Moore by the way and a bit older. IMO Diaz has a little ways to go before he's Stralman good. He's more or less a not very physical--smallish puck moving D like Anton. Both he and Moore are probably never going to become big offensive producers despite their games being more offense oriented--could say the same about DZ.

Diaz did go deep in the offensive end--at least once forechecking. This is okay as long as someone's covering for him and he doesn't get caught out--something which didn't happen. Klein moved to the left for the first time ever apparently without any major issue. As I said--good player.
 
AHB said:
I could live with that. Although I'm not as sold on Moore as most of you. I hope he improves, but I actually would like to see Allen up next year to see what he can do and slot someone on their off-side.

I don't think Moore is a steady enough D-Man on a contender.
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I'm not sure what this even means. There's at least one post like this every day. I'm not sure so and so is such and such on a contender. Contenders have weaknesses too. This is the cap era. Are you under the impression that contenders are perfect? I don't think a 6th D-man that's not Stu Bickel bad makes or breaks a contender.
 
Its understated, but for all of Sather's mistakes.. I think his refusal to add a defenseman (or two) of depth to that 11-12 team is one of his biggest.

How can you let th #1 seed in the East roll into the playoffs with Stu Bickel?

There were no Diaz's available for a 5th that year?
 
Fire Sather said:
Its understated, but for all of Sather's mistakes.. I think his refusal to add a defenseman (or two) of depth to that 11-12 team is one of his biggest.

How can you let th #1 seed in the East roll into the playoffs with Stu Bickel?

There were no Diaz's available for a 5th that year?
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Are you telling me John Scott doesn't count? :laugh:

But honestly Sather reminds me of me. There's never an in between. It's either full thug team and waste a 5th rounder on John Scott or every move they make is for skilled softer players. FWIW, I prefer this. At least Diaz is a decent player.
 
SnowblindNYR said:
I'm not sure what this even means. There's at least one post like this every day. I'm not sure so and so is such and such on a contender. Contenders have weaknesses too. This is the cap era. Are you under the impression that contenders are perfect? I don't think a 6th D-man that's not Stu Bickel bad makes or breaks a contender.
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This. The Flyers were two wins from the Stanley Cup with their 3rd defense pairing playing less than half than their 2nd pairing.

My all-time favorite example of this type of thinking is back in 2009 when a Yankee fan was criticizing Melky Cabrera, saying that he wasn't a starting CF on the World Series team. That was, of course, ignoring that Melky was just that a month previously.
 
SnowblindNYR said:
I'm not sure what this even means. There's at least one post like this every day. I'm not sure so and so is such and such on a contender. Contenders have weaknesses too. This is the cap era. Are you under the impression that contenders are perfect? I don't think a 6th D-man that's not Stu Bickel bad makes or breaks a contender.
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I think Allen is a better D-Man then Moore. I don't like Moore's game and I don't think he's suited for the playoffs yet, at all.

I like his physicality and his skating ability, but he doesn't seem to have the headiness for a smart, quiet game that a third pairing D-Man should have.

And the Rangers strength is their defense. They will live and die by that in the playoffs. The flyers have always had potent offenses. these are teams that are built extremely differently. So comparing that Flyers team, which had a high, potent offense, to this Rangers team, which is built from Lundqvist out is apples to oranges.
 
AHB said:
I think Allen is a better D-Man then Moore. I don't like Moore's game and I don't think he's suited for the playoffs yet, at all.

I like his physicality and his skating ability, but he doesn't seem to have the headiness for a smart, quiet game that a third pairing D-Man should have.

And the Rangers strength is their defense. They will live and die by that in the playoffs. The flyers have always had potent offenses. these are teams that are built extremely differently. So comparing that Flyers team, which had a high, potent offense, to this Rangers team, which is built from Lundqvist out is apples to oranges.
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Except Moore is a 6th D-man. This isn't Bickel that played 3 minutes in almost 2 games worth of action either. Having a serviceable but not ideal 6th D-man won't make or break this team. There are bigger weaknesses on this team.
 
SnowblindNYR said:
Except Moore is a 6th D-man. This isn't Bickel that played 3 minutes in almost 2 games worth of action either. Having a serviceable but not ideal 6th D-man won't make or break this team. There are bigger weaknesses on this team.
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What does Bickel have to do with anything? He was trash....
 
Looking back at the 11-12 team. McDonagh in his first full NHL season became with Girardi the team's first pair pretty much because it took Staal until the outdoor game vs. the Flyers to finally make it back in the lineup from the concussion his brother Eric gave him. Early in the season Sauer got hit up high by Mr. Phaneuf and that was the last NHL game he ever played.

The if's could have been defense for that season:

Girardi, Sauer, Stralman on the right side and Staal, McDonagh and Del Zotto on the left side. Eminger would have probably been the 7th D and instead there were Bickel, Jeff Woywitka and the questionable compete but more talented Tim Erixon.

We can look back and say Sather ****ed up our defense depth wise but that injury to Sauer turned into a huge setback. If we'd have gone into the playoffs with all of Staal, Girardi, McDonagh, Sauer, Stralman and DZ healthy that year and with Eminger as the No. 7 we would have been a lot more formidable. Bickel in actuality did a decent job for a good portion of the season. Against better playoff teams Tortorella did not have enough faith in him and kept pressing the same buttons--giving McD, Staal and Girardi more and more ice time.

But looking at this year the Rangers will have a pretty strong D going into the playoffs whether Diaz or Moore are the 6th guy or not and Falk is at least as playable as Eminger was and with Allen in the background. Our D is not a big worry as long as the major players stay healthy. Diaz and Moore are both major upgrades from Bickel, Eminger. Better depth.
 
AHB said:
What does Bickel have to do with anything? He was trash....
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I'm saying that it's not like we have Stu Bickel. A less than ideal 6th D-man won't be the reason we don't win the cup unless it's someone like Bickel who is a complete liability and unplayable.
 
Couldn't have been worse timing, thought he really turned a corner when he was paired with Klein, and he grew a set of balls and started to play more physical which helped him as well, hopefully he comes back soon and doesn't shy away from the dirty areas since that's where he had just started to play well.
 
SwedishBullet62 said:
Couldn't have been worse timing, thought he really turned a corner when he was paired with Klein, and he grew a set of balls and started to play more physical which helped him as well, hopefully he comes back soon and doesn't shy away from the dirty areas since that's where he had just started to play well.
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He doesn;t strike me as a Rick Nash type of guy... I think he'll jump right back into where he was before the injury.

That is, unless this concussion lasts several months
 
SnowblindNYR said:
I'm saying that it's not like we have Stu Bickel. A less than ideal 6th D-man won't be the reason we don't win the cup unless it's someone like Bickel who is a complete liability and unplayable.
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I think what he was saying is that he doesn't think J. Moore is a good enough defensemen to crack a team like Chicago or San Jose's defense.
 
aufheben said:
I think what he was saying is that he doesn't think J. Moore is a good enough defensemen to crack a team like Chicago or San Jose's defense.
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Maybe. But that's cherry-picking. I'm not sure Marcus Kruger cracks the Rangers lineup at center, nor Tyler Kennedy at right-wing. And John Moore could easily find a spot on Anaheim's defense.
 
Ok, his point was obviously that he just doesn't think he's that good, which he said. This is not going to become another conversation about what defines a contender.
 
oofhevben, pls

You're not going to turn this into another conversation about what a contender is. I won't let it happen.

If his point is that John Moore is bad, I agree.
 
SnowblindNYR said:
Anyone else hope that Diaz takes over for Moore even when healthy?
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Based on the one game he has as a Ranger? Yes.

Based on their NHL careers? Probably. Diaz is better offensively and not any worse defensively. Trouble is you push Klein to the left where he's nowhere near as comfortable. For that reason I'd run with J-Moore for now.

Strålman is gone in all likelyhood so next year Diaz replaces him. J-Moore - Diaz is a decent third paring (if Big Mac doesn't make the team).
 
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