Player Discussion Joel Armia - Your favorite Finnish player Edition

[Catanddogguitarrr]

2x2.5 seems like the perfect contract. He's outrageously inconsistent, although he's been very good since he got called back up last year. Kind of sucked at the start of the season but so did most of the team so I don't think it's fair to single him out.

I doubt he will sign that cheap and only 2 years. He will want to secure his future. 2 years is nothing, if he sucks again, he will never play in the nhl again. Your wish is the wish all Habs fans desire, the reality might be very different. I think I would boost the numbers a bit, like he (his agent) would ask 2,8 x 3 or 4.

I think he's very helpful to the team right now. If the team makes the PO, they will not trade him, they will keep him for the PO run and see next summer if they sign him for a fair price, or find someone else on the 4th line.
Hughes and Gorton are very pragmatic GMs, they want to build slowly but surely a perfect team. If they trade Armia it will not be a 1rst rounder anyway. So what is a 3rd to 5th rounder value at the end? If they are in the mix, they will keep him for the PO and be very cautious with his eventual signing.

 

[yianik]

If I was Armia and I want security, I would want a long term contract, no way I would sign for only two years, that's not the definition of security.

It will probably be Armia's last chance to sign a big contract before the end of his career. He won't accept a discount is my guess. Hughes/Gorton will have to pay or he is as good as gone imo.

His 2 best recent years was in 2021 and this year. Though he played better the tail end of last year. Both contract years.

Army is great when he is on but is grossly inconsistent. I think 3 years is getting kind of long from our point of view. But we don't want to lose both Evans and Armia so who knows.

 

[EXPOS123]

He had a good half season plus last year, so it's not just being good in a contract year. And incidentally his best year before this year was 2019-2020 which wasn't a contract year, so this whole he only plays well in contract years seems pretty suspect.

The guy was literally playing himself out of the league last year and you conveniently forget all the previous years where everyone was complaining of exactly what I said - that he would show up only when he felt like it

And Bozovin gave him that ridiculous extension because he a had a few good games in the playoffs - which, not coincidentally, was right before he was gonna head into free agency

Sorry I’m not buying his sudden resurgence at 31 years old

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

His 2 best recent years was in 2021 and this year. Though he played better the tail end of last year. Both contract years.

Army is great when he is on but is grossly inconsistent. I think 3 years is getting kind of long from our point of view. But we don't want to lose both Evans and Armia so who knows.

The solution is decision. Analyse the pros and cons and trace a line. If I was the gm, I would sign Evans and wait next summer to decide if I sign Armia. Armia have almost zero value on the trading market while Evans is worth a late 1rst rounder. I would trade Dvorak at the tdl because I'm not impressed by what he brings on the ice. He plays better this year but he barely plays good enough for his 4,5m. I would prefer Beck or any other center HuGo could acquire at this point. My plan would be we keep both Evans and Armia and we lose Dvorak to be replaced by Beck or another one from Laval or a new one from a trade. Sign Evans at a fair price, wait Armia signed next summer or just let him walk. Because there are strong chances Habs will make the PO this year. Losing only Dvorak doesn't screw up the team chemistry I guess.

 

[Rapala]

Do the same people who want to sign Jake Evans want to get rid of Joel Armia
Their situations are exactly the same only Armia will cost less to renew.

Jake Evans' good PK numbers have always been tied to Armia's great play even going back to our SCF.
That post season Armia continued to perform well even after Evans went down.

After Covid our PK went into the toilet mirroring Armia's struggles.
Only once Armia starting playing great hockey again did our numbers turn around.

It is easier for me to identify prospects for Jake Evans' role while I'm struggling to find one who can replicate what Joel Armia is currently bringing.

 

[morhilane]

It is easier for me to identify prospects for Jake Evans' role while I'm struggling to find one who can replicate what Joel Armia is currently bringing.

Next season will be interesting, even if HuGo acquire vets to replace the departing ones (if all UFAs leaves) instead of using rookies, it doesn't mean they will be as efficient.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Do the same people who are want to sign Jake Evans want to get rid of Joel Armia
Their situations are exactly the same only Armia will cost less to renew.

Jake Evans' good PK numbers have always been tied to Armia's great play even going back to our SCF.
That post season Armia continued to perform well even after Evans went down.

After Covid our PK went into the toilet mirroring Armia's struggles.
Only once Armia starting playing great hockey again did our number turn around.

It is easier for me to identify prospects for Jake Evans' role while I'm struggling to find one who can replicate what Joel Armia is currently bringing.

I disagree. It's not that easy to find replacement for Evans cuz he's a center. I agree Armia plays good hockey this year and after he went to ahl last year. But he wasn't good early this season like the rest of the team. I think he's overated by many fans. Inconstancy have been the word to describe him and now suddendtly at his last year contract he would be considered as a good and constant player? No kidding?

I think Habs management should work to improve the 3rd line like getting rid of Dvorak and maybe if they can have someone to take Anderson's contract (and I like how Anderson plays this year). We already have players who doesn't bring much like Gally, Dvo, Anderson, Pezz, Newhook. Armia is nothing special to be honest. If we take a look at teams who are in the mix year after year, we'll find a lot of better players than Armia. And for cheaper. 3,5 for a third winger is a lot. It's like some Habs fans have limited vision and they can't look far. We are fooled by recent performance of Armia and others. We have to see larger and put all this into a larger perpective. How Armia would fit with the Bruins, the Leafs, the Avs, the Stars, the Panthers, the Kings and the Oilers? He was waived and there was no takers. But I admitt he wasn't palyoing good at the time. A team who gives a new contract to Armia will get the lazy Armia of 2 years ago or the good Armia of today?

I would like to see how Beck can play in nhl, and Tuch, Florian, Davidson and another shot of Roy. We have Demidov coming next season and I think we are due for a ufa signing at center or wing next summer. So Armia is not a priority, he's getting old a bit and there can be so many better options.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Next season will be interesting, even if HuGo acquire vets to replace the departing ones (if all UFAs leaves) instead of using rookies, it doesn't mean they will be as efficient.

There can be a little slump next year if some rookies who replace vets like Dvo and Armia doesn't deliver as expected. They are young and on a learning curve. But that doesn't really matter. Habs are still in a rebuilding mode and with his age, Armia doesn't fit with the new window when the young core will be ready to perform year after year. Armia will be to old and his next slowdown/inconstancy will be brutal for us, if that happen.

 

[Rapala]

You have to decide is Armia the player who got waived or is he the player he's become since working on himself. I say he's the latter and no there isn't one player you mentioned who handles the boards and manipulates puck battles like Armia can. We'll have to go outside the organization to find a player with all those same attributes.

I disagree. It's not that easy to find replacement for Evans cuz he's a center.

Yet we have both Kapanen and Beck who will likely be more productive and just as responsible defensively.
Evans for the most part has been a fair to middling fourth line center playing above his station. Jake Evans has experience as his hole card how much will that be worth in the next couple of seasons vs giving the role to the future and allowing them to grow into it?

 

[ahmedou]

ALREADY 100 REPLIES

ARMIA GOT SOME LOVE FROM HFHABS

ARMIA'S THREAD WAS OPENED ON JANUARY 16TH

WE'RE TODAY JANUARY 18TH

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

You have to decide is Armia the player who got waived or is he the player he's become since working on himself. I say he's the latter and no there isn't one player you mentioned who handles the boards and manipulates puck battles like Armia can. We'll have to go outside the organization to find a player with all those same attributes.

Yet we have both Kapanen and Beck who will likely be more productive and just as responsible defensively.
Evans for the most part has been a fair to middling fourth line center playing above his station. Jake Evans has experience as his hole card how much will that be worth in the next couple of seasons vs giving the role to the future and allowing them to grow into it?

Kapanen and Beck. Ok for Beck cuz he's playing on a nhl rink. Kapanen we had a small sample and I think the league have plenty of better options than him. Beck didn't made the jump into the nhl so we'll have to wait and see. I am the one who wanted better than Evans, I wanted a bigger, more physical and more grit for a 4th line. I also want way better than Dvorak. So I am one of those who wants help from the outside. I think we need a center from a trade or an ufa signing. But I changed my mind this year about Evans, I find he does a pretty good job. It's hard to find better, not impossible but hard.

I think Armia could drop again next year or in 2 years and we will have that problem again. I think we had our fair share of vets underperforming. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm paranoid but I try to think like someone who is in charge (we ll play the role of a gm here, lol), balancing the risk factor, balancing the pros and cons.

 

[The Great Weal]

I doubt he will sign that cheap and only 2 years. He will want to secure his future. 2 years is nothing, if he sucks again, he will never play in the nhl again. Your wish is the wish all Habs fans desire, the reality might be very different. I think I would boost the numbers a bit, like he (his agent) would ask 2,8 x 3 or 4.

I seriously doubt any team would ever give him a 4 year deal. He got waived halfway through his previous 4 year deal and sucked in the first 2 years of it. He might get 3 years but I wouldn't be comfortable giving that to him based on his inconsistency.

He's not getting traded, but he's not getting extended if he wants a longer deal.

 

[Bottle Rocket]

Trading away Armia and Evans in a package would be a huge mistake if the objective is to win games with this roster. There is no way that they will both get traded, and I’d bet that both of them will get resigned, as they should be.

Read the initial conversation. I don't trade Armia for a low return, but the poster said a first. I do trade Armia any day of the week for a 1st, which I combine to get help in a hockey trade. Suppose a 1st, Evans and another piece gets us Nemec.

I do it. Then I trade Savard for something that gets me a forward down the line, ideally a 3C with terms. Get rid of some expiring vets for short and long term help. Much better RD depth when our window opens.

Sell high on our expiring vets. Stop being enamoured with recent performances. Short term bias. Armia has been maddening to watch for years. He was even waived and not claimed. He has improved and keeping him for 1-2 years at a more reasonnable cap hit is acceptable, but he will not accept that, he is a mercenary like most.

So either sell him if the price is right or let him expire if we are in the mix at the deadline and all we can get is say a low 2nd or a 3rd.

 

[Sorinth]

The guy was literally playing himself out of the league last year and you conveniently forget all the previous years where everyone was complaining of exactly what I said - that he would show up only when he felt like it

And Bozovin gave him that ridiculous extension because he a had a few good games in the playoffs - which, not coincidentally, was right before he was gonna head into free agency

Sorry I’m not buying his sudden resurgence at 31 years old

I've always said for him to remain he will need to take a paycut, and that's because I haven't forgotten his previous years. And I don't think anyone is wrong to be wary about his resurgence.

The point I'm disputing is your claim that he only plays well in contract years. That's verifiably untrue, and if you can't stick to actual facts like when his previous career year(s) not being contract years then why should anyone care whether you are "buying" his resurgence or not, you basing it off a fictional narrative.