Joe Thornton VS William Nylander

[stickty111]

Thank you Lord God Jesus. You have answered our prayers.

William Nylander is a Power Forward now.

Your sarcasm isn't helping you.
Thornton isn't replacing Nylander and for good reason.

 

[Buds17]

I wouldn't expect Thornton to supplant Nylander on PP1 unless the idea is to evenly split the two groups. I'm not sure that's necessary now though with Matthews, Tavares, Marner, Nylander and Rielly. It would have made more sense last season with the aforementioned five plus Barrie IMO. I think a closer comparison exists between Kerfoot and Thornton. Comparing Nylander with Thornton might be indicative of a trying season for Nylander more than anything else.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Nylander showing again how soft he was on these goals by being in front.

This was my favorite Nylander goal from last season and wouldn't you know he scored it in front of the net and on the power play.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Not really, but as others said, Thornton should just teach Marner to be more deceptive. I personally prefer a stacked unit with the big 4 and Rielly on it.

Thornton would be the best person to teach Marner to do that, so that's another example of how valuable a signing he was and why he was no threat to Nylander.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I wouldn't expect Thornton to supplant Nylander on PP1 unless the idea is to evenly split the two groups. I'm not sure that's necessary now though with Matthews, Tavares, Marner, Nylander and Rielly. It would have made more sense last season with the aforementioned five plus Barrie IMO. I think a closer comparison exists between Kerfoot and Thornton. Comparing Nylander with Thornton might be indicative of a trying season for Nylander more than anything else.

Last season even with Rielly injured, plus Marner missing 11 games and Tavares missing 7 games, the Leafs power play was T-5 with the Lightning at 23.1% and would have thought it was going to finish in the top 5 because of those circumstances.

NHL Stats

 

[TheTotalPackage]

It pains me to say it, but I think Thornton is going to be a huge disappointment.

No chance he supplants Nylander on the PP. He’s not even the same Jumbo Joe as three years ago, let alone Hall of Fame Joe. He, just like Spezza, should be viewed as a bottom six guy who can take a turn on the 2nd PP and whose experience will be more valuable than his play.

 

[LeafsNation75]

It pains me to say it, but I think Thornton is going to be a huge disappointment.

No chance he supplants Nylander on the PP. He’s not even the same Jumbo Joe as three years ago, let alone Hall of Fame Joe. He, just like Spezza, should be viewed as a bottom six guy who can take a turn on the 2nd PP and whose experience will be more valuable than his play.

If Thornton has a season like Spezza did I won't be disappointed. There aren't any Leafs fans who are expecting him to have a repeat of his 2005-06 season when he had 125 points which won him the Art Ross and also the Hart Trophy.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Joe Thornton is going to be interesting to watch this season. I think that if he can prove he's still got some hockey left in him that TOR won't rely on Nylander for things like filling in on the number 2C role. Also I think that Joe's vision /playmaking ability might keep Nylander off the 1st PP.

Imagine

Tavares Thornton Matthews
Rielly Marner

on the top PP. It could work well with so many great passers and shooters.

What do you think?

We aren't getting 25 year old Joe Thornton he's not keeping Nylander off the PP that's ridiculous

 

[Joey Hoser]

I highly advise you to not go around saying he has "net presence

Yes. I've seen those stats. They are wild and misleading.

Yes. What actually happened is "wild and misleading" because it goes against the opinion you want to have.

Who cares about the stat? You can see him scoring goals around the front of the net with your eyeballs too.

 

[Stand Witness]

Or how about Thornton, Nylander and Simmonds to PP2 with Thornton as the QB, Nylander the shooter and Simmonds the net presence?

 

[ottomaddox]

It pains me to say it, but I think Thornton is going to be a huge disappointment.

No chance he supplants Nylander on the PP. He’s not even the same Jumbo Joe as three years ago, let alone Hall of Fame Joe. He, just like Spezza, should be viewed as a bottom six guy who can take a turn on the 2nd PP and whose experience will be more valuable than his play.

That doesn't sound like a bust to me though.

 

[ottomaddox]

Yes. What actually happened is "wild and misleading" because it goes against the opinion you want to have.

Who cares about the stat? You can see him scoring goals around the front of the net with your eyeballs too.

Well I can. I know he scored around the net. That doesn't mean he has "net presence" though. He's spent his entire career playing the perimeter and now he's the best in the league? Net presence used to mean a lot more than scoring goals around the net. You cannot change the meaning to pump up Nylander. Sorry.

 

[ACC1224]

Only way Thornton has a chance to replace Nylander is if the Leafs could be lucky enough to trade him for Dubois as that closed tread suggests. Thornton wouldn’t play over Dubois either.

They had better not go back to splitting the PP like Babcock did. That was always his most frustrating strategy. Top players should be on the ice as much as possible.

 

[ottomaddox]

Only way Thornton has a chance to replace Nylander is if the Leafs could be lucky enough to trade him for Dubois as that closed tread suggests. Thornton wouldn’t play over Dubois either.

They had better not go back to splitting the PP like Babcock did. That was always his most frustrating strategy. Top players should be on the ice as much as possible.

I don't disagree with your last point. I don't want to have Matthews playing 18 min. a night when he can play close to 21 min. To be fair to Babcock I think Dubas' Sports Science Dept had something to do with players playing less minutes, etc. Sports Science has since been dissolved from the organization.

 

[Menzinger]

He's not tough, he does not disrupt the goalie, he does not deflect shots like the best in the league, he shows fear of his shadow and defensemen who push him around, and he does not draw penalties from in front of the net.

But he scores more than any other Leaf from that area....

The entire point of "net presence" is to get the puck in the net....

 

[LeafsNation75]

Only way Thornton has a chance to replace Nylander is if the Leafs could be lucky enough to trade him for Dubois as that closed tread suggests. Thornton wouldn’t play over Dubois either.

They had better not go back to splitting the PP like Babcock did. That was always his most frustrating strategy. Top players should be on the ice as much as possible.

I guess the easier answer would be if Nylander got injured and missed a game, because then it would be easy to use Thornton in his spot on the power play.

I also completely agree about not splitting the PP because when Babcock did that it was frustrating to watch.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I don't disagree with your last point. I don't want to have Matthews playing 18 min. a night when he can play close to 21 min. To be fair to Babcock I think Dubas' Sports Science Dept had something to do with players playing less minutes, etc. Sports Science has since been dissolved from the organization.

If that was true how come when Keefe took over Matthews minutes starting going up? For the first time in his career he averaged over 20:00 minutes of TOI with 20:58 TOI during the 2020-21 season.

 

[BAM]

I don't disagree with your last point. I don't want to have Matthews playing 18 min. a night when he can play close to 21 min. To be fair to Babcock I think Dubas' Sports Science Dept had something to do with players playing less minutes, etc. Sports Science has since been dissolved from the organization.

It wasn't sports science, if it was then Marleau or any of Babcock's favourite bottom 6 forwards would not have received more ice-time than Matthews.

Nothing about sports science says that Marleau plays more minutes in a game 7 than your best player. Or Komorov and Hyman playing more than the big 3.

 

[LeafsNation75]

It wasn't sports science, if it was then Marleau or any of Babcock's favourite bottom 6 forwards would not have received more ice-time than Matthews.

Nothing about sports science says that Marleau plays more minutes in a game 7 than your best player. Or Komorov and Hyman playing more than the big 3.

Game 7 against Boston in 2018 Marleau played 18:35 and Matthews played 18:06 which was un acceptable.

I was also shocked that when they played Boston in Game 7 in 2019 Matthews played 18:48 and Marleau only played 14:35, although being down 3-1 in the 3rd period Matthews should have been well over 20:00 minutes.

Toronto Maple Leafs at Boston Bruins Box Score — April 25, 2018 | Hockey-Reference.com

Toronto Maple Leafs at Boston Bruins Box Score — April 23, 2019 | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[ottomaddox]

It wasn't sports science, if it was then Marleau or any of Babcock's favourite bottom 6 forwards would not have received more ice-time than Matthews.

Nothing about sports science says that Marleau plays more minutes in a game 7 than your best player. Or Komorov and Hyman playing more than the big 3.

June 1, 2015 Kyle Dubas hires director of sports science Jeremy Bettle.
quote: “In hiring Dr. Bettle, our sole objective is to be able to have our players know that as a program, we are doing everything we can in all aspects to optimize their performance and maximize their potential as a hockey player, regardless of what stage of their career they’re at.”

Mike Babcock on the way he’s managed Auston Matthews & John Tavares’ ice time: “We want to play as high tempo as we can… We believe and agree with our sports science guys that this is the best way to get it done”

Leafs Hire Director of Sports Science & Performance | Maple Leafs Hockey News and Discussion
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2018...time-we-want-to-play-as-high-tempo-as-we-can/

Fastforward to 2021 Bettle name gone from the organization, and the department mostly dissolved.
Maple Leafs Management

Notice how Babcock chooses his words carefully. He says "We".

 

[HolyCrap]

Elite? The best in the league? No he is not.[/

 

[Raging Bull]

I'd rather not have a second unit, let Rielly/Matthews/JT/Mitch/Nylander take the whole 2 minutes.

 

[Nineteen67]

Ideally, they wont have Thornton, Reilly and Marner on the same PP unit.

 

[saltming]

Thornton about 30 seconds in the first round: TKO

 

[meefer]

PP1
Matthews
Nylander Robertson
Rielly Marner

PP2
Tavares
Spezza Simmonds/Vesey
Lehtonen/Brodie Thornton (to be honest, I don't know if Joe has played the point on the PP, but his ability to pass...)