Confirmed with Link: Joe Thornton to Leafs [1yr/700k]
- Thread starter lovemyleafs
- Start date
BallardEra
Leafs&Caps Since 1982™
Sometimes a change is what a person needs to get the mojo and fire back. Even in our daily lives.
Curious to see how this works out for the Leafs but I personally like it.
Curious to see how this works out for the Leafs but I personally like it.
Mess
Global Moderator
Then what was the cap space that saw Barrie @$2.75 mil (50% retained) and Ceci @ $4.5 mil walk away used for, if not to sign their replacement?
They have gone OLD and added lots of veteran leadership in their bottom 6 moves including this Thornton signing coming off a 7 goal season and more concerning a -19 +/- (26th worst in the NHL), and added Wayne Simmonds 8 goal & -21+/- (18th worst). If you're not going to get a lot of offense from your bottom 6 then one would hope you would get strong defense yet based on +/- from last year both Thornton and Simmonds were on the ice for among the worst 5v5 ES goal differential in the entire league.
NHL Stats
With a Leafs team coming off a bottom 5 in goals in worst against, this has to be a concern and perhaps not just paranoia as the stats back this up.
The goal I believed was to also add some secondary scoring to the bottom 6 of the roster and adding Thornton (7 goals), Simmonds (8 goals) and resigning Spezza (9 goals) is not much different than Kapanen or AJ both 20 goal scorers in the past, could have achieved and for not much difference in cap hit when you combine 3 for 1. Leafs basically split their individual goal scoring potential over 3 bottom 6 players instead of just 1.
I personally thing they should have gone Spezza or Thornton but not both for veteran leadership. IMO
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In other words, based on absolutely nothing.
The Podium
Registered User
Did you forget Jake Muzzin, Ilya Mikheyev and Travis Dermott are due for raises?
You bring up Thornton’s goal total, but not his 31 points? I wonder why? Perhaps because that is only a few points shy of Kapanen and Johnson’s pace?
I don’t think you need me to explain to you the flaw in the +/- argument
Man, if they pull it off this year that cup handoff would have enough emotional impact to make Bourque in 01 seem like middle school graduation.
Fonzieleaf
Registered User
Jumbo Joe without a jumbo contract. Sounds quite alright with me!
justashadowof
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Over-under of getting to see Kadri with a fist full of Thornton's beard this season?
Clark4Ever
What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
The irony is that those same morons would be singing a much different tune if their team was able to land Thornton on a 1 year 700K contract.
I predict he will be one of the best bargains in the league for us next season.
Guy Boucher
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People are really overblowing this "Leafs got slower" narrative. There's still plenty of speed in the lineup:
Hyman (fast) - Matthews (fast) - Marner (fast)
Kerfoot (fast) - JT (slow) - Nylander (fast)
Mikheyev (fast) - Jumbo (slow) - Simmonds (slow)
Vesey (fast) - Spezza (slow) - Barabanov (fast)
Engvall (fast) - Boyd (fast) - Anderson (fast)
There's still lots of fast players and certainly the ability to insulate the slower guys with faster linemates.
Hyman (fast) - Matthews (fast) - Marner (fast)
Kerfoot (fast) - JT (slow) - Nylander (fast)
Mikheyev (fast) - Jumbo (slow) - Simmonds (slow)
Vesey (fast) - Spezza (slow) - Barabanov (fast)
Engvall (fast) - Boyd (fast) - Anderson (fast)
There's still lots of fast players and certainly the ability to insulate the slower guys with faster linemates.
The Podium
Registered User
It just the next criticism. They are not ever happy, now that there is size they need to knock the speed as if the two aren’t related.
It's odd because the people complaining are the ones worried we were a rush team that was too built on speed and skill
justashadowof
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I absolutely get the point of this post: the Leafs are still overall a fast team.
I don't think skating speed and skating ability are quantum variables. There are points between fast and slow, and, good and bad skater. Thornton and Spezza are glacial skaters but they're definitely not immobile bad skaters. I don't think Hyman is fast or that Simmonds is particularly slow. I don't think players like Marner and Barabanov are fast as much as agile on their skates. Tavares is probably the team's ugliest skating forward but he's still hoovering just below average in terms of speed.
We've all seen mismatches of speed on NHL teams before. When it's most noticeable is when the puck carrier doesn't skate with pace while his linemates do: awkward zone entries, offsides and too much separation on the rush. We'll see who can function as linemates of the slower paced old guys. I don't think every player will be a good match.
justashadowof
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Thornton and Spezza are mostly rush type of forwards, just slower paced versions of that.
Clark4Ever
What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
Good post.
And if you look at our below average skaters in Tavares, Thornton, Spezza and Simmonds, they bring so much more to the table in terms of goal scoring, puck possession, playmaking ability and grit. That will offset their lack of speed if they are all deployed with the proper linemates. I don't envision Keefe deploying a line of Thornton, Spezza, and Simmonds any time soon.
Thornton especially has been a slow the pace down, pick apart your seams type player forever. Spezza a poor man version of that. Just because they can function on a 2on1 doesn't make them rush players
Spezza wasn't even that slow last year...
nuck
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Plus minus and scoring 2 years ago in SJ
| 88 | Brent Burns | D | 82 | 16 | 67 | 83 | 34 | 13 | 20 | 5 | 11 | 16 | 6 | ONT: Barrie | 33 |
| 48 | Tomas Hertl | C | 77 | 35 | 39 | 74 | 18 | 5 | 19 | 10 | 5 | 15 | 4 | Czech Rep.: Prague | 24 |
| 39 | Logan Couture | C | 81 | 27 | 43 | 70 | 22 | -6 | 20 | 14 | 6 | 20 | 6 | ONT: Guelph | 29 |
| 28 | Timo Meier | R | 78 | 30 | 36 | 66 | 55 | 9 | 20 | 5 | 10 | 15 | 34 | Switzerland: Herisau | 21 |
| 8 | Joe Pavelski | C | 75 | 38 | 26 | 64 | 22 | -4 | 13 | 4 | 5 | 9 | 4 | WI: Plover | 34 |
| 9 | Evander Kane | L | 75 | 30 | 26 | 56 | 153 | -4 | 20 | 2 | 6 | 8 | 61 | BC: Vancouver | 27 |
| 62 | Kevin Labanc | R | 82 | 17 | 39 | 56 | 36 | -1 | 20 | 4 | 5 | 9 | 14 | NY: Brooklyn | 22 |
| 19 | Joe Thornton | C | 73 | 16 | 35 | 51 | 20 | 8 | 19 | 4 | 6 | 10 | 6 | ONT: London | 39 |
| 28 | Timo Meier | R | 70 | 22 | 27 | 49 | 42 | -22 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | Switzerland: Herisau | 22 |
| 9 | Evander Kane | L | 64 | 26 | 21 | 47 | 122 | -12 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | BC: Vancouver | 28 |
| 88 | Brent Burns | D | 70 | 12 | 33 | 45 | 34 | -22 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | ONT: Barrie | 34 |
| 65 | Erik Karlsson | D | 56 | 6 | 34 | 40 | 16 | -15 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | Sweden: Landsbro | 29 |
| 39 | Logan Couture | C | 52 | 16 | 23 | 39 | 18 | 0 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | ONT: Guelph | 30 |
| 48 | Tomas Hertl | C | 48 | 16 | 20 | 36 | 16 | -18 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | Czech Rep.: Prague | 25 |
| 62 | Kevin Labanc | R | 70 | 14 | 19 | 33 | 38 | -33 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | NY: Brooklyn | 23 |
| 19 | Joe Thornton | C | 70 | 7 | 24 | 31 | 34 | -19 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | ONT: London | 40 |
The first half scoring drought worries me but obviously not as bad as if it happened in the second half. He will leave his slow start in Davos this year
I don't know how much the old guys are going to be relied on the replace Kap and Mango, I'm looking for a couple of Russians to do most of that. The games played by Malgin, Aberg, Marchment, Petan, Shore, Moore, Tima, and Goat also have to be replaced. And the speculation is that at least one more of last years forwards has to be outbound, but whether its Engvall's 8g or Kerfoot's 9g thats not a big hole to fill.
The reality is that if these guys aren't effective they would not be hard to bury or move. Minimal financial commitment = minimal exposure if things don't work out.
The disrespect shown towards Joe Thornton is appalling, especially when I see it coming from supposed knowledgeable hockey guys like Craig Button and Brian Burke. Jumbo is seriously underrated because he never won a cup. This is not the Leafs picking up some scrub. We're talking about a man with more assists than many Hall of Famers have points, a truly special player. Yes, he isn't fast but he has always been effective at slowing the game down to his pace; he still has his size, reach, passing ability, vision and smarts so to think this is a bad signing at 700k is absolutely ridiculous. I actually wouldn't put it past him to become the Jagr of the current era and have a late resurgence; really not sure why everyone's writing him off and saying this is his last year when he himself said he's having fun and wants to keep playing as long as he can.
And no, he isn't the same player as Spezza. He's better offensively and defensively, bigger, stronger, more physical, more experienced, and left handed. Which means that they won't actually interfere with one another in the lineup because whether you give each their own line at center or shift them to the wing it all works nicely and there are plenty of options.
Imagine being a young kid like Robertson or Marner and seeing Jumbo Joe run someone over. There has been talk about this guy's hunt for the cup for so many years and they are well aware, this is another huge motivating factor for the team to help this legend win a cup.
Well done Dubas.
Ridiculous that people can't see this.
And no, he isn't the same player as Spezza. He's better offensively and defensively, bigger, stronger, more physical, more experienced, and left handed. Which means that they won't actually interfere with one another in the lineup because whether you give each their own line at center or shift them to the wing it all works nicely and there are plenty of options.
Imagine being a young kid like Robertson or Marner and seeing Jumbo Joe run someone over. There has been talk about this guy's hunt for the cup for so many years and they are well aware, this is another huge motivating factor for the team to help this legend win a cup.
Well done Dubas.
Ridiculous that people can't see this.
Button is an idiot... always has been and always will be. He says things only to get attention... especially anti-Toronto things. Burke... I like the guy... he entertains me... but when he criticizes a move like signing Thornton for 1 year @ $700K, all you need to do is say the magic words "Tyler Biggs"... and he'll shut up.
SprDaVE
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