Jovavic
boohoo, Pens "fans", BOOHOO
Five PP assists in his first game incoming. Having a better forward group will definitely make his numbers improve.
Confirmed with Link: Jiricek, 2025 5th to Minnesota for Hunt, conditional 2025 1st, 2026 3rd and 4th, 2027 2nd
- Thread starter CBJWerenski8
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SteelCityCannon
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We've scored more goals than Minnesota this year, in less games too.
CBJWerenski8
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alphafox
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Was pretty disappointed with this whole situation. Jiricek is the sort of piece that you must hit a homerun on at both the pick and development level. The fact that the Jarmo organization failed to do so and in the process managed to torch the relationship resulting in this sub par package more than justifies his termination. Kudos to DW for salvaging what he could and honestly if the team is able to keep this up and progress those picks could end up giving us ammunition to acquire a legitimate upgrade.
Does that matter if hes still -1 at the end of the game? Unless they are going to shelter him with nothing but ozone and PP time
Iron Balls McGinty
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It's all quite possible that Jiricek can be a good NHL'er and also not a good fit for this team.
Those 2 things don't have to be tied together and that's OK. If we can start winning games consistently I don't give a f*ck who is on the roster.
By all accounts, we are off to a pretty good start with what we've got right now.
Those 2 things don't have to be tied together and that's OK. If we can start winning games consistently I don't give a f*ck who is on the roster.
By all accounts, we are off to a pretty good start with what we've got right now.
S1N4TR4
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So we traded Jiricek for a pile of magic beans. Okay. But why do so many people feel bad about that? Jiricek is a magic bean at this point. He has a lower floor than Hunt. The same people complaining about the return were often low on Jiricek to begin with. I think people got a little greedy expecting us to get a sure thing in return for a very sketchy prospect. Scouts have eyes, they know his skating is horrible.
As far as pick value, I saw the post earlier that put the value of the picks together (the 1st+2nd+3rd+4th) at an 8th OA. That is somewhat high, because that calculation assumed mid-round draft position and the Wild will finish higher. So let's say the picks added together are worth something like a 12th-15th OA, and Hunt added in makes it worth something like 8th-10th OA. That's really not a bad return for a recent 6th OA that isn't developing well.
I'm upset that you left Christiansen off in favor of Somebody.
Christiansen - Severson was a good pairing!
I agree that the draft pick was rather obvious for us at #6, unless they were more ahead of the curve on Mintyukov or maybe Conor Geekie. It's not a great draft. Jiricek just needed to make moderate progress on his skating and strength and he would have had a decent NHL floor under him. That he would make nearly zero progress in those areas is not something scouts can foresee.
The one area of mismanagement I see is that he was called up way too early. Just hope plays from Jarmo. The kid would have better off without the callups, which took him off a reasonable timeline for his development, given where he was with his underlying fundamentals like the skating.
I don't think the miscommunication about the place last Fall was really what determined anything. It was a nasty public flashpoint but it wasn't why his skating didn't develop or why he didn't get stronger. He was already at that point getting long callups and having his expectations thrown off.
Absolutely. Forwards need a few good moves, D need to be able to handle every forwards few good moves. It requires more versatility in the skating. And obviously Jiricek is very vulnerable in that regard.
I have no real strong opinion on Waddell one way or the other.
He gets a lot of credit for the team looking good right now and some of it is a bit much.
He picked the right coach, but seemingly tried not to - it took him late into the summer to agree to hire Evason, who was my strongly preferred guy - seemingly not wanting to hire him or maybe preferring other hires that fell through.
Guys like Werenski and KJ took monster steps in their physical preparedness and that was going to help regardless of GM. Monahan was signing here regardless of which new GM we hired. And our Russian forwards were ready to pop regardless.
I thought he made the right moves with the D, letting go of Bean and Boqvist, promoting Christiansen, and claiming Fabbro. All good so far. Up front I think he cut too much of our forward depth and it's been a knife's edge at times to get acceptable play from our bottom three lines. There's nothing really to evaluate yet, we'll have to look back on the trades and picks in a few years.
If I thought he was probably going to eventually develop into a very good NHLer, then I would have held on to Jiricek long term, kept him in the AHL, and just ignored him and his agent for a couple more years.
I don't know if this is Waddell not being able to handle that long term approach. I think the trade might have been more about two teams making bets on the skating. Our club didn't think he was going to improve it enough and Guerin thought his skating coach could maybe make more progress with him.
As far as pick value, I saw the post earlier that put the value of the picks together (the 1st+2nd+3rd+4th) at an 8th OA. That is somewhat high, because that calculation assumed mid-round draft position and the Wild will finish higher. So let's say the picks added together are worth something like a 12th-15th OA, and Hunt added in makes it worth something like 8th-10th OA. That's really not a bad return for a recent 6th OA that isn't developing well.
I'm upset that you left Christiansen off in favor of Somebody.
Christiansen - Severson was a good pairing!
I agree that the draft pick was rather obvious for us at #6, unless they were more ahead of the curve on Mintyukov or maybe Conor Geekie. It's not a great draft. Jiricek just needed to make moderate progress on his skating and strength and he would have had a decent NHL floor under him. That he would make nearly zero progress in those areas is not something scouts can foresee.
The one area of mismanagement I see is that he was called up way too early. Just hope plays from Jarmo. The kid would have better off without the callups, which took him off a reasonable timeline for his development, given where he was with his underlying fundamentals like the skating.
I don't think the miscommunication about the place last Fall was really what determined anything. It was a nasty public flashpoint but it wasn't why his skating didn't develop or why he didn't get stronger. He was already at that point getting long callups and having his expectations thrown off.
Absolutely. Forwards need a few good moves, D need to be able to handle every forwards few good moves. It requires more versatility in the skating. And obviously Jiricek is very vulnerable in that regard.
I have no real strong opinion on Waddell one way or the other.
He gets a lot of credit for the team looking good right now and some of it is a bit much.
He picked the right coach, but seemingly tried not to - it took him late into the summer to agree to hire Evason, who was my strongly preferred guy - seemingly not wanting to hire him or maybe preferring other hires that fell through.
Guys like Werenski and KJ took monster steps in their physical preparedness and that was going to help regardless of GM. Monahan was signing here regardless of which new GM we hired. And our Russian forwards were ready to pop regardless.
I thought he made the right moves with the D, letting go of Bean and Boqvist, promoting Christiansen, and claiming Fabbro. All good so far. Up front I think he cut too much of our forward depth and it's been a knife's edge at times to get acceptable play from our bottom three lines. There's nothing really to evaluate yet, we'll have to look back on the trades and picks in a few years.
If I thought he was probably going to eventually develop into a very good NHLer, then I would have held on to Jiricek long term, kept him in the AHL, and just ignored him and his agent for a couple more years.
I don't know if this is Waddell not being able to handle that long term approach. I think the trade might have been more about two teams making bets on the skating. Our club didn't think he was going to improve it enough and Guerin thought his skating coach could maybe make more progress with him.
So if they're both currently at the "belongs in the AHL" level and Hunt has a higher floor, what is it then?
koteka
Registered User
I'm upset that you left Christiansen off in favor of Somebody.
Christiansen - Severson was a good pairing!
I am open to Harris getting comfortable in our system and improving or a cap dump left D or someone like Svozil making the jump. Christiansen might be in the lead now, but a lot could change in a few months.
To be fair, if somebody's given up on Jiricek, they've probably given up on Ceulemans too.
I sure have. No positive reports by anybody posting here (yes that's my source
) in the last two years or so. (But I'll be the first to admit that it's just a perception thing on my part - you'd ideally see that progress year-on-year but that's not always how it works. It's just feelings in the end for us who don't actually watch the players very actively and rely on others' information.)Yeah this is what it kinda sounded like from the quotes and some Minnesota fan thoughts: They apparently have a really good skating coach. It's not much of a stretch to think she can work with Jiricek much better than our skating coach, or that Minnesota thinks that way.
Come to think of it, do we actually have a skating coach on the payroll? Maybe the path for us to develop Jiricek properly was just permanently blocked and he'll have a better chance elsewhere.
We do: Lee HarrisTo be fair, if somebody's given up on Jiricek, they've probably given up on Ceulemans too.
I sure have. No positive reports by anybody posting here (yes that's my source
Yeah this is what it kinda sounded like from the quotes and some Minnesota fan thoughts: They apparently have a really good skating coach. It's not much of a stretch to think she can work with Jiricek much better than our skating coach, or that Minnesota thinks that way.
Come to think of it, do we actually have a skating coach on the payroll? Maybe the path for us to develop Jiricek properly was just permanently blocked and he'll have a better chance elsewhere.
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CBJWerenski8
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Cyclones Rock
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I'll give a lot of credit to Waddell for moving on from an unhappy and not-ready-for-primetime player like Jiricek. The organization gave it 20 games and sold. Seems like the return is more than adequate. A lot of "maybes" for a single "maybe".
My impression of Jiricek is that he's not NHL ready. But more importantly, he's not able to see that and that's more than a red flag. Was definitely time to move on. I look at the trade as a "sell high" which is a credit to the CBJ front office.
With Z and Mateychuk here for the long term filling the top dman roles, Jiricek was very dispensable even if he didn't have skating issues and a questionable attitude. Good luck to Minnesota and their magical skating coach
My impression of Jiricek is that he's not NHL ready. But more importantly, he's not able to see that and that's more than a red flag. Was definitely time to move on. I look at the trade as a "sell high" which is a credit to the CBJ front office.
With Z and Mateychuk here for the long term filling the top dman roles, Jiricek was very dispensable even if he didn't have skating issues and a questionable attitude. Good luck to Minnesota and their magical skating coach
Since Waddell wanted a 1-1 trade and ended up taking this one, presumably best on the table, it seems like they were pretty committed to moving him and would take the best offer they could get. Plenty of reasons to speculate on, but I just trust that they're valid reasons. Can't really evaluate this one for a few years, but as of now... I am pleased.
SteelCityCannon
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Ughhh, I'm glad someone else finally said it. I've been civil because I really do with them and Jiricek the best but Jesus it's like nobody else has a damn skating coachGood luck to Minnesota and their magical skating coach
.
OldGoaltender
Registered User
A coach is only as good as his student. Skating is a lot like a golf swing especially after you have ingrained it into your muscle memory. You can refine it but once a learned trait it’s really difficult to rewrite your brain.
Cyclones Rock
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Nobody ever accused me of being civilUghhh, I'm glad someone else finally said it. I've been civil because I really do with them and Jiricek the best but Jesus it's like nobody else has a damn skating coach
Beat me to the punch.
At Jiricek's level and age I can only see some very marginal improvements to his skating. His skating cake has already been baked for the most part.
This is exactly what ruined my ping pong game, via a college ping pong "class"
...until I reverted back to my original, preferred grip on the paddle.
Cyclones Rock
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I had a few golf pros have me try new grips. Never worked. Always felt and looked uncomfortable to me and my results with the new grips were atrocious.
Went back to the same "flawed" grip and have enjoyed the game at my mundane level ever since.
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
it's a really, really good return.
i think people are really sleeping on daemon hunt. this past draft they went all-in on defensemen who can skate and have bite to their game. that describes hunt – who isn't huge (6'1 200) but has good enough size and good hockey sense.
hunt seems like one of those players who gets underestimated because he doesn't have loud tools, but the hockey sense, skating and intangibles will give him a long NHL career as a 4-5 type.
the miscommunication itself was bad and as you said wasn't the singular root cause of any of this, but i do think it's symptomatic of the thing that was: a disconnect between coaching/FO.
the FO said he was ready and told him to get a place. the coaching staff refused to use him in anything resembling an NHL role. that put a strain on the relationship between the player and organization.
the agent then goes to portzline to air grievances, which leads to the coach publicly comparing the player to an entitled 13-year-old girl. no coming back from that imo.
ironically enough, the trade this year was the result of the new regime not having this problem. they were on the same page about giving him a look in camp, then on the same page about his performance not being good enough.
clearly they had some kind of a plan for him but when he didn't show progress to the coaching staff, the FO decided to cut bait and bring in a player who fit what the staff was asking for in hunt, while adding assets on top of that.
i'm absolutely convinced that mateychuk is going to be an NHL star in a way that i never was with jiricek. and that'll change the whole complexion of this roster in a way that makes it way easier to build long-term.
give him and werenski both partners who can keep up but don't need to do too much, throw them out there for ~25 min a night, and let them control play in all three zones.
looking back on their draft year, i was one of the few here who didn't love jiricek. i was hopeful that he'd go earlier and they would get gauthier. wanted mateychuk badly at 12, but was also high on bichsel, geekie and ostlund.
in hindsight, picking mateychuk at 6 and bichsel at 12 would've probably been the best selections, but they're probably getting better value out of getting mateychuk at 12 and converting jiricek into a bundle of picks + hunt (who i really like as well).
This exactly, however I'm pretty sure Lindstrom is going through this right now as a way to alleviate his back issues. Haven't heard much about it in awhile though. But that's off topic.
