Jim Robson final: Broome Dusters vs. Hogsmeade Lunas

[VanIslander]

Jim Robson divisional final:



Broome Dusters

coach Peter Laviolette

Cy Denneny - Frank Nighbor - Punch Broadbent
Herbie Lewis - Mark Messier (C) - Didier Pitre
Bob Pulford - Joe Nieuwendyk (A) - Jack Darragh
Don Marshall - Leon Draisaitl - Blake Wheeler
Joe Primeau, Terry O'Reilly

Moose Johnson - Jacques Laperriere
Babe Siebert (A) - Tom Johnson
Babe Pratt - Leo Boivin
Gennady Tsygankov

Terry Sawchuk
Rogie Vachon



vs.



Hogsmeade Lunas

coaches Tommy Ivan, Mitch Korn

Jamie Benn (A) - Frank Boucher - Charlie Conacher
Artemi Panarin - Hooley Smith (A) - Patrick Kane
Gordon Roberts - Joe Thornton - Vic Stasiuk
Blair Russell - Ken Mosdell - Scotty Davidson
David Backes

Allan Stanley - Bobby Orr
Scott Niedermayer - Art Coulter (C)
Jim Schoenfeld - Dan Boyle
Lennart Svedberg

Grant Fuhr
Hap Holmes

​

Click to read more...

 

[VanIslander]

Post your special teams, links, photos, comments, etc.

 

[VanIslander]

• PK1: Nighbor - Pulford - Johnson - Johnson - Sawchuk
• PK2: Marshall - Nieuwendyk - Boivin - Laperriere - Sawchuk
• PP1: Draisaitl - Messier - Wheeler - Siebert - Pitre
• PP2: Denneny - Nighbor/Nieuwy - Darragh - Pratt - Moose Johnson

 

[Dr John Carlson]

PP1
Boucher/Kane
Panarin - Conacher - Kane/Boucher
Orr

PP2
Benn
Roberts - Smith - Thornton
Boyle

PK1
Mosdell - Smith
Schoenfeld - Orr

PK2
Boucher - Russell
Stanley - Coulter

PK3
Benn - Davidson

​

I'll explain my first powerplay unit because it may not be obvious what I'm going for (it looks like one of Pat Kane or Frank Boucher is going to be banging home rebounds in front - that's not what I'm after). It's modeled after the Capitals' excellent powerplay between around 2012-2022. Kane and Boucher taking turns quarterbacking from along the half-wall while the other sits to the left of the net as a secondary playmaker from the goal line. Panarin is in the Ovechkin spot since he runs that in real life, and Conacher is the other triggerman in the middle, taking one-timers from Kane and Boucher, while also being big enough to withstand some punishment around the slot. Orr is sort of a mix between a distributor and a pointman while being the skater most responsible for lugging the puck up ice to get zone entries started.

Special teams. A few thoughts...

I appreciate the chemistry of Broome's top line, but Punch Broadbent is above his head here. I don't think he was an integral factor to the Denneny-Nighbor duo's success, considering they mostly performed just as well with the faster but softer Jack Darragh next to them before Punch, and again with the more defensive-minded Hooley Smith after him. Regardless, just by playing style alone, your top line mirrors mine: Broadbent versus Benn are two abrasive all-around guys who can score, Denneny versus Conacher are two pure snipers, and the two Franks in the middle are playmaking and defensive extraordinaries. Obviously you'd take Nighbor over Boucher, but I favour my wingers even more heavily.

Messier at 2C and Draisaitl at 4C are strengths for the Dusters, and they'll need to be dealt with. Ideally, I think both of my bottom-six lines can match up with them, as they both have the necessary size, particularly at centre, to make it work. Mosdell is probably the next best defensive centre in this series after Nighbor, and will be used often, while Thornton has experience in a defensive role in best-on-best competition at the 2010 Olympics. Last series, I illustrated why I think Thornton's line is built to get the most out of him, and the same reasons (big, physical, goal-scoring wingers) make it suited for the gritty type of game I expect Broome to throw at us.

Hogsmeade clearly has an advantage on defense. I think I have the two best defensemen in the series, both with ideal partners that let them play to their strengths. There's plenty of mobility to evade Laviolette's heavy forecheck from guys like Broadbent, Messier, and Pulford, but even if they manage to take a few pounds of flesh, I've got enough size to withstand it - the only defenseman in my lineup who could be labelled undersized is Dan Boyle, and he's being insulated by big Jim Schoenfeld.

Obviously, having Terry Sawchuk is an advantage over Grant Fuhr.

Taking a step back, Broome has been described by its general managers as the ideal Frank Nighbor team. Their decision to go this route was partially influenced by the presence of Bobby Orr in the division, so in a way this series boils down to whether or not a Nighbor team can slow down an Orr team. To that end, I took a look to see how much Nighbor's Senators slowed down the closest Orr comparison of their day in Harry Cameron, as they spent the majority of their primes playing against each other in the NHA and NHL.

From the 1915-1916 NHA season when Nighbor came back East, until the 1922-1923 NHL season when Cameron went out West, here are the numbers (not counting the brief spell in 18-19 when they both played for Ottawa):

Ottawa vs. Cameron-led teams: 63 GP, 32 W, 30 L, 1 T, 227 GF, 201 GA, +26 GD
Ottawa vs non-Cameron teams: 114 GP, 73 W, 39 L, 2 T, 509 GF, 362 GA, +147 GD

This is a fairly rudimentary analysis, but it proves that Nighbor's Senators enjoyed only the slimmest of advantages over Cameron's mostly Toronto teams, despite the vast difference in quality between their supporting casts. This is also reflected in the fact that they met in two NHL finals, with both teams winning one a piece. Now, after considering that Bobby Orr is dramatically superior to Harry Cameron (and much less of a headcase/drunkard), and his supporting cast here is much better than Cameron's on his Toronto teams, I'll need to be convinced that the Dusters will be able to slow down Hogsmeade.

 

[Habsfan18]

Thanks for getting things started, DJC! Congrats on making it this far in your first ATD. I like your Lunas, just not as much as the Dusters.

I plan on adding some comments tomorrow night!

 

[BenchBrawl]

Let's add more arguments to this series please.

 

[Habsfan18]

Let's add more arguments to this series please.

Comments coming shortly, sorry! Been busy but I still intend on commenting in-depth as soon as possible.

 

[Habsfan18]

Special teams. A few thoughts...

I appreciate the chemistry of Broome's top line, but Punch Broadbent is above his head here. I don't think he was an integral factor to the Denneny-Nighbor duo's success, considering they mostly performed just as well with the faster but softer Jack Darragh next to them before Punch, and again with the more defensive-minded Hooley Smith after him. Regardless, just by playing style alone, your top line mirrors mine: Broadbent versus Benn are two abrasive all-around guys who can score, Denneny versus Conacher are two pure snipers, and the two Franks in the middle are playmaking and defensive extraordinaries. Obviously you'd take Nighbor over Boucher, but I favour my wingers even more heavily.

Messier at 2C and Draisaitl at 4C are strengths for the Dusters, and they'll need to be dealt with. Ideally, I think both of my bottom-six lines can match up with them, as they both have the necessary size, particularly at centre, to make it work. Mosdell is probably the next best defensive centre in this series after Nighbor, and will be used often, while Thornton has experience in a defensive role in best-on-best competition at the 2010 Olympics. Last series, I illustrated why I think Thornton's line is built to get the most out of him, and the same reasons (big, physical, goal-scoring wingers) make it suited for the gritty type of game I expect Broome to throw at us.

Hogsmeade clearly has an advantage on defense. I think I have the two best defensemen in the series, both with ideal partners that let them play to their strengths. There's plenty of mobility to evade Laviolette's heavy forecheck from guys like Broadbent, Messier, and Pulford, but even if they manage to take a few pounds of flesh, I've got enough size to withstand it - the only defenseman in my lineup who could be labelled undersized is Dan Boyle, and he's being insulated by big Jim Schoenfeld.

Obviously, having Terry Sawchuk is an advantage over Grant Fuhr.

Taking a step back, Broome has been described by its general managers as the ideal Frank Nighbor team. Their decision to go this route was partially influenced by the presence of Bobby Orr in the division, so in a way this series boils down to whether or not a Nighbor team can slow down an Orr team. To that end, I took a look to see how much Nighbor's Senators slowed down the closest Orr comparison of their day in Harry Cameron, as they spent the majority of their primes playing against each other in the NHA and NHL.

From the 1915-1916 NHA season when Nighbor came back East, until the 1922-1923 NHL season when Cameron went out West, here are the numbers (not counting the brief spell in 18-19 when they both played for Ottawa):

Ottawa vs. Cameron-led teams: 63 GP, 32 W, 30 L, 1 T, 227 GF, 201 GA, +26 GD
Ottawa vs non-Cameron teams: 114 GP, 73 W, 39 L, 2 T, 509 GF, 362 GA, +147 GD

This is a fairly rudimentary analysis, but it proves that Nighbor's Senators enjoyed only the slimmest of advantages over Cameron's mostly Toronto teams, despite the vast difference in quality between their supporting casts. This is also reflected in the fact that they met in two NHL finals, with both teams winning one a piece. Now, after considering that Bobby Orr is dramatically superior to Harry Cameron (and much less of a headcase/drunkard), and his supporting cast here is much better than Cameron's on his Toronto teams, I'll need to be convinced that the Dusters will be able to slow down Hogsmeade.

Thanks again for getting things started, DJC!

I don’t have a whole lot of time to analyze the series in-depth, but I’ll try my best to state a case for the Dusters advancing.

Dealing with Bobby Orr:

He’s one of the greatest ever, obviously. So all we can do is hope to limit his overall effectiveness. Easier said than done, I know. The Dusters eliminated Gretzky last round, so they’ll be prepared for Orr here. Historically, strong forechecking and strong two-way play at Center helps take away time and space down the middle of the ice in hopes of breaking up his rushes.

We have Frank Nighbor, perhaps the greatest defensive center ever. Not sure if there’s a better top option down the middle of the ice to try to limit Orr’s offensive touches. Next up is Mark Messier who had a very solid all-around game and was quite underrated as a two-way player. Known more for his offence of course, Mess was no slouch away from the puck, and as we all know Mess excelled in forechecking. He’ll use his physical abilities to try and keep Orr at bay as well. Joe Nieuwendyk was fantastic defensively and quite solid overall as a two-way player. He may be an ideal 3rd line center for a team facing Bobby Orr. Strong forechecker, strong defensively, strong offensively. And finally we have Leon Draisaitl. Big-bodied, excels at takeaways and puck possession.

All in all, I’m very confident the Dusters are built solidly enough to help limit the effectiveness of Bobby. I’ve mentioned how important it is to have strong forechecking and two-way play down the middle, but overall this is a group that has speed and two-way abilities down the wing as well. We’ll be able to get the puck and get down the ice in a hurry. We also have Lewis, Pulford and Marshall down LW who are all quite strong defensively and will help in taking away time and space. Add Blake Wheeler as a strong forechecker alongside Draisaitl on that 4th line and I’m fairly confident in any one of our lines matching up situationally against Orr. Of course it should also be noted that we have a solid, mobile group of defensemen which is also considered a plus against a Bobby Orr team.

With Orr, you can only hope to contain him, and we think we’ve at least given coach Laviolette the proper type of players to do so.

Dynasty line with proven chemistry as championship calibre:

The Dusters have assembled a top line that has real-life chemistry as a proven dynasty trio. We think it helps give us an advantage as there are zero questions about fit and chemistry with that line. I’m not sure if any other team can match that. On the surface, Broadbent may look weak as an RW1, but he plays his role perfectly alongside Nighbor and Denneny. Again, the proof is in the pudding. Coach Laviolette also has the option to swap him out for Jack Darragh to give the line a different look. Again, this would be yet another proven winner. Options, and he’ll use them however he sees fit.

But even ignoring real life, this line is built to feed off each other. The sniper in Denneny, the two-way playmaking star in Nighbor, and the physical glue guy in Broadbent. The classic recipe for success.

Leadership:

It goes without saying, but Mark Messier is a top-5 leader in hockey history. He immediately sets the tone for what a Duster should be. The perfect fit for our roster and leads both by example and through his fiery personality on the bench and in the room. He’ll have everyone prepared to go to war, and will have his teammates fired up in their game plan to stop Bobby Orr. Outside of coach Laviolette, Mess will have the biggest impact on our preparation and execution.

Clear advantage in goal

When building the Dusters, we decided to forego the typical star number 1 defenseman and instead go with a very solid overall group by committee. We have 4 very solid #2/3 d-men and they’re playing in front of one of the best ever. A proven winner, Sawchuk is exactly who we targeted in goal and he gives us the utmost confidence that we’ll have a clear advantage in the crease here.

Our strong two-way abilities up front, defense by committee, and Sawchuk holding the fort between the pipes…goals won’t come easy against the Dusters.

Strength down center

As touched on earlier, we’re very strong down the middle. I’ll put Nighbor/Messier/Nieuwendyk/Draisaitl up against any other team in the entire league and feel quite confident in the matchup. When viewing the matchup on the surface and comparing with Boucher/Smith/Thornton/Mosdell, we feel it’s a clear advantage for the Dusters.

I’ll try to come back and post more when I can! Having a five-year old and a full time job, my spare time can be fairly limited but I try to come around when possible.

Good luck, DJC! And again, you built a solid team for your first ATD. I’m glad you decided to join us.