Injury Report: Jets health in the playoffs

[Jet]

Re: bolded

That's exactly what the stats should show if they turned into shots against or xGA (given a proper sample size)

While Stan ranks at the bottom of the Jets defensemen in those numbers, they aren't way out of line. And at the end of the day, somebody needs to be the worst defenseman on the team

His stats say exactly what many of us are saying about him... he's ideally a 7D who can slot in on the bottom pairing provided he has the right partner and his matchups are managed properly

NOOOO BUT YOU LOOOOOOVE STANLEY AND HESS THE WORSST HOCKEY PLAYER TO EVER SET FOOOT ON THE ICCCEEEEEE!

 

[TheGovernment]

Thanks for the word salad.

I think my opinion on the subject is pretty balanced, just because it doesn't align with yours doesn't mean I don't get it.

Maybe you mean I don't just cowtow to the general consensus and actually want to dig a little deeper.

Airing your grievances and biased opinion in a huge paragraph doesn't really make much of an argument - you kind of fall into that group that just wants to shout their emotional opinions about Stanley without trying to strip bias out of it and trying to understand it better.

A reminder:

I don't think Stanley is a great defenseman
I said I think Fleury should get another opportunity based on his work in game 7
I am happy with the lineup choice Arniel made today (whether Stan was available I don't know)

Na, you are just trying to be different because you think it makes you rebellious.....You feel going against the trend, means you are somehow smarter that everyone else since in your head, you see something no one else does....

 

[TheGovernment]

Re: bolded

That's exactly what the stats should show if they turned into shots against or xGA (given a proper sample size)

While Stan ranks at the bottom of the Jets defensemen in those numbers, they aren't way out of line. And at the end of the day, somebody needs to be the worst defenseman on the team

His stats say exactly what many of us are saying about him... he's ideally a 7D who can slot in on the bottom pairing provided he has the right partner and his matchups are managed properly

No they don't, they don't show shitty passes that DONT result in turnovers or bad plays in the future. So keep trying.
A puck gets thrown into someones skates, that other person has to change what they were doing, resulting in a chain of events that could go well or go bad. Stats don't show that. That happens 100s of times a game.

 

[voyageur]

Na, you are just trying to be different because you think it makes you rebellious.....You feel going against the trend, means you are somehow smarter that everyone else since in your head, you see something no one else does....

It's hard to trust the Government. I know that Jet and Buffdog have played hockey at a higher level than most of us. I know some of those St. B golfers too were pretty good hockey players in their prime so I respect their opinion as well.

You can throw stats against Stan, and they generally work, though I have yet to see them broken down into home ice vs away which is fundamental for a player like Stan, who reminds me of a faster version of Douglas Murray.

 

[Buffdog]

No they don't, they don't show shitty passes that DONT result in turnovers or bad plays in the future. So keep trying.
A puck gets thrown into someones skates, that other person has to change what they were doing, resulting in a chain of events that could go well or go bad. Stats don't show that. That happens 100s of times a game.

Stats will 100% show that. That's how they work over an 82 game sample size. Especially Corsi.... that's IF he commits as many of these plays as you claim.

You're also welcome to look up giveaways/60, then compare to the rest of the team. I've done it

Clearly your eye test can't be trusted, based on your blatant bias

 

[Buffdog]

It's hard to trust the Government. I know that Jet and Buffdog have played hockey at a higher level than most of us. I know some of those St. B golfers too were pretty good hockey players in their prime so I respect their opinion as well.

You can throw stats against Stan, and they generally work, though I have yet to see them broken down into home ice vs away which is fundamental for a player like Stan, who reminds me of a faster version of Douglas Murray.

I think Stan's success relies fairly heavily on his partner and his match ups... but the same can be said for any 3rd pairing in the league. There's a reason those guys play on the 3rd pair of their team... if they were better, they would be 2nd pairing guys lol

 

[Adam da bomb]

There is way too much discussion about Stan in my opinion as I think his effect is negligible.
Can other forwards other than kc start putting up more points? Can ehlers earn his 9 mil and stay healthy and contribute. Can Helly be good?

 

[voyageur]

I think Stan's success relies fairly heavily on his partner and his match ups... but the same can be said for any 3rd pairing in the league. There's a reason those guys play on the 3rd pair of their team... if they were better, they would be 2nd pairing guys lol

In the Cap era yeah, it's hard to build a complete defense, and invest in a good top 9. Guys like Kulak or Benoit are probably the exceptions.

 

[Gil Fisher]

The injury thread is now the Stanley thread lol.

Can't wait until we're full-circle and the Logan Stanley thread becomes the Logan Stanley thread.

 

[raideralex99]

There is a lot of evidence to support this:

• People bitching about Stanley when he isn't even dressed
• People blaming Stanley for plays that aren't his fault
• People blowing mistakes way out of proportion
• People saying something that is the right play but doesn't work out due to the chaotic nature of hockey is Stanley's fault
• People refusing to give Stan any credit for good play

Of course, those people will call me a Stan fan or whatever else they want to call me. I'm trying to be as objective about it as I possibly can.

The part that irritates me the most about it is a bunch in that group don't even try to be objective or open-minded they just want to continually write the same lazy narrative over and over again.

You can replace Stanley's name with any Jet player in your comment ... that's what people do. They need to blame someone for a loss ... it makes them feel better.
There was more negativity on Hellebuyck this series than Stanley ... remember start Comrie?
Basically every single Jet player has been called down in these threads.
Scheifele and KFC were called down the most before the season even started ... how they are the reason why the Jets lose. I was so sick of it I started posting every game the goals for and against with those 2 on the ice to prove a point at the start of the season. I stopped after the Jets went 6-0.
We all know Stanley is #6/7 D man and probably imo the weakest link but how many games did he lose for the Jets?
I don't recall any ... yes he was responsible for some goals but do you think the coaches would put him in the lineup so the Jets could lose?

 

[Jet]

Na, you are just trying to be different because you think it makes you rebellious.....You feel going against the trend, means you are somehow smarter that everyone else since in your head, you see something no one else does....

Bruv I'm 54 my rebellious days and giving a tiny f*** about what other people think about me is long gone.

I am absolutely not the smartest person on this forum, not even close but I am proud of my emotional intelligence and I've worked pretty hard at trying to identify my own bias, be open minded about opposing views and have my mind changed.

Also, the list of people that likely see the same thing I do includes the Jets organization, and some other posters on this very forum. I'm okay with that.

 

[slurpee addict]

Is there a possibility that you notice it more with Stnnley than other D men because you're biased against him?

The reality is that it happens to every single decensemen in the league, but you're more likely to see it if you're watching it

Realistically, you're talking about anecdotes... but the stats guys will tell you that over a long enough period, that should show up in the numbers. And during the season (and so far in thr playoffs), he's largely fine as long as he's paired with the right partner and his minutes and matchups are managed properly.. which is what you'd expect for any bottom pairing defenseman

I still think the hatred for Stanley is a self-fullfilling thing that started with Garrett's article about him prior to the draft (that I suspect had less to do with what he thought about the player and more to do with letting the world know that he has some kind of inside scoop on what an NHL team is planning) and has snowballed from there. When the entire fan base is biased against him and just holding their breath for him to f*** up so they can say "SEE!!!! STANLEY SUCKS" when it happens... while ignoring the same gaffes from other players

Interesting. There some good points in here. I admit I may have a bias against Stanley. I say 'may' because it's not all consuming for me and doesn't preclude me from noticing some things he does positively in some games. What I also will say, is that I don't spend any time reading up on draft candidates, and have no patient or intelligence to spend much time on detailed analytics or stats. For example, I still think over the course of the season that +/- retains a degree of value.
So, what I do know however, is that I formed my 'bias' (such that it is) by watching him play. He just isn't all that good. I formed that opinion by watching the jets games every year - pretty much all of them. And in the vast majority of those games he's pretty much the worst defenceman on our team. He isn't all that physical, he doesn't skate the puck out very well, he loses the puck often when in close contact with others (height related?), and suffers from giveaways too often. Mostly though - he almost never jumps off the page in a game he has played in, or even in certain singular plays.
Now - I thought Fleury looked great last game. I have never in seven years felt that way about Stanley or had that thought ever in my mind after a game in which Stanley played. What does that tell me? It doesn't tell me that Fleury needs to play necessarily, but it does tell me that Stanley just isn't good enough when we have other options.
But I'm just a fan and not a highly paid and experienced coach. So, I might be wrong... might be...

 

[Buffdog]

Interesting. There some good points in here. I admit I may have a bias against Stanley. I say 'may' because it's not all consuming for me and doesn't preclude me from noticing some things he does positively in some games. What I also will say, is that I don't spend any time reading up on draft candidates, and have no patient or intelligence to spend much time on detailed analytics or stats. For example, I still think over the course of the season that +/- retains a degree of value.
So, what I do know however, is that I formed my 'bias' (such that it is) by watching him play. He just isn't all that good. I formed that opinion by watching the jets games every year - pretty much all of them. And in the vast majority of those games he's pretty much the worst defenceman on our team. He isn't all that physical, he doesn't skate the puck out very well, he loses the puck often when in close contact with others (height related?), and suffers from giveaways too often. Mostly though - he almost never jumps off the page in a game he has played in, or even in certain singular plays.
Now - I thought Fleury looked great last game. I have never in seven years felt that way about Stanley or had that thought ever in my mind after a game in which Stanley played. What does that tell me? It doesn't tell me that Fleury needs to play necessarily, but it does tell me that Stanley just isn't good enough when we have other options.
But I'm just a fan and not a highly paid and experienced coach. So, I might be wrong... might be...

Good take

To me, the difference between Fleury and Stanley is that when Fleury plays well, you really notice him. When Stanley plays well, you don't notice him at all

Stan has his bad games for sure, but for the most part this season he was steady (if unspectacular).. with a few high profile gaffs worked in that everybody notices

But to be fair, Fleury had some really bad games too this year. Like I've been saying, that's largely due to the fact that these guys are just bottom pairing defensemen at the NHL level

 

[surixon]

Good take

To me, the difference between Fleury and Stanley is that when Fleury plays well, you really notice him. When Stanley plays well, you don't notice him at all

Stan has his bad games for sure, but for the most part this season he was steady (if unspectacular).. with a few high profile gaffs worked in that everybody notices

But to be fair, Fleury had some really bad games too this year. Like I've been saying, that's largely due to the fact that these guys are just bottom pairing defensemen at the NHL level

I also think the org had wanted Fleury with Schenn as that is what was tried first. But Fleury was pretty poor down the stretch so they went to plan B.

If Fleury keeps his good play up and JoMo comes back soon I think they go back to plan A

 

[slurpee addict]

Good take

To me, the difference between Fleury and Stanley is that when Fleury plays well, you really notice him. When Stanley plays well, you don't notice him at all

Stan has his bad games for sure, but for the most part this season he was steady (if unspectacular).. with a few high profile gaffs worked in that everybody notices

But to be fair, Fleury had some really bad games too this year. Like I've been saying, that's largely due to the fact that these guys are just bottom pairing defensemen at the NHL level

Yup. All good points by you. I follow a couple of other teams - the Islanders being one. Only reason I mention this, is that out 'worst' defenceman on any given night can play in those other teams. Likely not in a top four, but would probably replace either of their 5/6 slots. Again my opinion, but we are in better shape than most other teams. We might be spoiled by success.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

It's hard to trust the Government.

Take it to the politics forum pal, this is the Stanley thread.

 

[flin flon bombers]

Say what you want about stanley but when s##t gets crazy I want him watching my back,it's not like hes paid a truck load,he been with the team awhile at from the nose bleed seats it looks like he has the respect of the team and coaches.

 

[gojetsgo]

parker ford is healthy and now on added to the taxi squad

 

[JetsUK]

Interesting. There some good points in here. I admit I may have a bias against Stanley. I say 'may' because it's not all consuming for me and doesn't preclude me from noticing some things he does positively in some games. What I also will say, is that I don't spend any time reading up on draft candidates, and have no patient or intelligence to spend much time on detailed analytics or stats. For example, I still think over the course of the season that +/- retains a degree of value.
So, what I do know however, is that I formed my 'bias' (such that it is) by watching him play. He just isn't all that good. I formed that opinion by watching the jets games every year - pretty much all of them. And in the vast majority of those games he's pretty much the worst defenceman on our team. He isn't all that physical, he doesn't skate the puck out very well, he loses the puck often when in close contact with others (height related?), and suffers from giveaways too often. Mostly though - he almost never jumps off the page in a game he has played in, or even in certain singular plays.
Now - I thought Fleury looked great last game. I have never in seven years felt that way about Stanley or had that thought ever in my mind after a game in which Stanley played. What does that tell me? It doesn't tell me that Fleury needs to play necessarily, but it does tell me that Stanley just isn't good enough when we have other options.
But I'm just a fan and not a highly paid and experienced coach. So, I might be wrong... might be...

I also think the org had wanted Fleury with Schenn as that is what was tried first. But Fleury was pretty poor down the stretch so they went to plan B.

If Fleury keeps his good play up and JoMo comes back soon I think they go back to plan A

Good analyses here.

I thought Fleury had a standout game. He was mobile, positionally solid, and added options in transition because he was able to make zone exits with possession and also showed some nous in moving into the OZ. He seemed calm under pressure, and played what seemed like an error-free game (it may not have been) with very high stakes.

That, of course, might have been a one-off. In some ways, he and Big S have similar player profiles. Fleury's 2 years older, was also drafted (early) in the 1st, and has similarly seemed to polarize and frustrate supporters with bouts of promisingly good followed by annoyingly poor play (unlike Stan, he's moved around the league).

IMO at this point it's less about individual abilities and more about how to make that 3rd pairing more reliable defensively, less often hemmed in to the DZ and therefore less penalty-prone, and better suited to the quick transition and forward pressure game that best suits these Jets.

I think the teams wants Luke in for his gudvet savvy and physicality. If Fleury can complement Luke by providing quicker, sure-footed mobility and zone exit relief, whilst not taking panic penalties or icing the puck at key moments, then he should stay in.

We've Stan played when he probably shouldn't have been -- see last year's POs. Hopefully this year he only plays as the best option, and with Miller, who seems to complement him well. That's two improved bottom pairings that can take some of the heat off the top 4.

 

[Gm0ney]

Like I'll talk about Stanley with a guy like Gm0ney all day because he comes with a well thought out argument and is respectful (if not a little sassy). I don't necessarily agree with everything he says but I love the discussion.

These guys who just continually say shit like Stanley sucks, or he's the worst player even of the taxi squad - that's just, IMHO, idiotic spew.

Sassy?!

 

[TS Quint]

So, what's your theory about why Stanley's numbers seem to outperform what we're seeing on the ice (and why people think Stanley's worse than he actually is?).

Not being combative, just genuinely curious. It's it an anomaly? Sample size? Bias?

I think the secret is tied to why the Jets keep using him despite fans stunning to have a seething hate for him.

I think it’s not all about Stanley. I think it’s more about Stanley playing ahead of what many people think are potentially better options….usually smaller ones…..usually known more for their offense than their defense. Not naming names….just saying he will probably be eating popcorn for one more year before he heads back to Finnish his career with some home cooking.

 

[Jet]

Sassy?!

I said it! Gurrrrl you be sassy sometimes

 

[Buffdog]

Sassy?!

 

[Gm0ney]

I said it! Gurrrrl you be sassy sometimes

View attachment 1031542

Maybe we could go with "irreverant"?

 

[Buffdog]

I also think the org had wanted Fleury with Schenn as that is what was tried first. But Fleury was pretty poor down the stretch so they went to plan B.

If Fleury keeps his good play up and JoMo comes back soon I think they go back to plan A

At this point, whoever is getting the job done should stay in the line up until they don't

Based on his huge play last game, Fleury deserves to play. If he falters, next man up please