Injury Report: Jets health in the playoffs

[bustamente]

If you slow down the replay, it sure looks like the point of contact from Sundqvist is the left shoulder. Morrissey comes back out an makes a hit with his right shoulder, and it probably jolted him enough that he was in distress after it. I am not medically inclined to speak of the exact nature of the injury, but even from the first hit you can see that Josh is turning to avoid the contact directly, and Sundqvist targets a specific area. I'm sure the Blues would know he's hurt, and so will Dallas, but they aren't as heavy of a team, with 3 scoring lines, and Dadonov on the 4th line.

At the 26 second mark of his hit he does a slight awkward lean, this is was leads me to believe a possible injury to his lower back like something tighten up and he tried to manipulate it but couldn't, anyways pure speculation on my part.

 

[Channelcat]

BBM and agree.

Along with his draft baggage— emphatically not his fault — Stan’s panic episodes plus 3rd pairing status mean he’s a high-event player in a low-event role. Hard to play unsheltered and can’t always be sheltered.

Luke is a kind of chaos force-multiplier on that pairing, esp with his penchant for impactful penalties.

He was a good pick at 18

 

[Jets]

Stan is a gametime decision, but its just because they need to decide if he's a healthy scratch or not

 

[braunm]

If Stanley sits out, it’s definitely a plus for the team.

 

[Chewmasey]

Wrong thread.

 

[Gil Fisher]

Maybe the reason Scheif didn't skate was because it was a day off?

the comment was in relation to the gameday skate on Sunday. Speculation was that to meet protocol to play sunday night he would have to take the game day skate. he didn't, as was widely reported in the media.

One reason why he wouldn't advance through the protocol on Sunday is that he became symptomatic. The protocol says (iirc) then you go back to step one, day of rest. If he rested Sunday, light activity Monday and non-contact practice today, he might be ready to go tomorrow?

Now, I haven't read the last 3-4 pages yet, so this is probably all moot. Sorry for wasting everyone's time.

 

[Jet]

I don't know about that one. I think people are reading a lot into PP. It could be that Josh has a shoulder injury that limits his range of mobility affecting his shot, which would negate his PP effectiveness.

I can say that I've played hockey when I couldn't lift my arm above my head. But it was no contact hockey. Same shoulder too, if what I saw was correct.

If he can skate and play the puck maybe he gets in the lineup, the wheels and smarts are still valuable. You could tell from the anthem in game 7 he was playing in pain, just by the look on his face.

Hockey is one part playing through the pain.

Its a wild coincidence, but I'm currently playing through a rotator cuff injury, because I'm too stupid to rest. I've buggered every one of my joints at one time or another.

It hurts to lift my arm especially under load, and occasionally certain movements are painful as hell. Sleeping sucks too as I'm a side sleeper.

I will say this shoulder (my control hand) is significantly more difficult to play with. Shooting was pretty much a no go and it was hard to get strong passes off, especially across my body.

It was much easier to play when it was my top hand, I hardly noticed it.

I won't tell you how I hurt myself. It's too embarrassing (it wasn't hockey).

 

[Buffdog]

Its a wild coincidence, but I'm currently playing through a rotator cuff injury, because I'm too stupid to rest. I've buggered every one of my joints at one time or another.

It hurts to lift my arm especially under load, and occasionally certain movements are painful as hell. Sleeping sucks too as I'm a side sleeper.

I will say this shoulder (my control hand) is significantly more difficult to play with. Shooting was pretty much a no go and it was hard to get strong passes off, especially across my body.

It was much easier to play when it was my top hand, I hardly noticed it.

I won't tell you how I hurt myself. It's too embarrassing (it wasn't hockey).

I had a partial thickness tear in my rotator cuff (supraspinatus) in 2012

I worked hard to rehab it and kept it strong but still tore the rest in 2023. Surgically repaired in January 2024... absolte suckfest of a recovery/rehab

Six weeks in a sling, months to get ROM back and then strengthened it from there... I'm stronger now than before but I was super diligent in the rehab. No f***ing way I ever want to go through that again

TL/DR version.... don't f*** around with that injury lol

 

[Jet]

I had a partial thickness tear in my rotator cuff (supraspinatus) in 2012

I worked hard to rehab it and kept it strong but still tore the rest in 2023. Surgically repaired in January 2024... absolte suckfest of a recovery/rehab

Six weeks in a sling, months to get ROM back and then strengthened it from there... I'm stronger now than before but I was super diligent in the rehab. No f***ing way I ever want to go through that again

TL/DR version.... don't f*** around with that injury lol

Yeah I've always just let it heal but this time I bought some therabands and I'm going to do the proper rehab and strengthening. I've probably overtrained some of the muscles and undertrained others in the group.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't know about that one. I think people are reading a lot into PP. It could be that Josh has a shoulder injury that limits his range of mobility affecting his shot, which would negate his PP effectiveness.

I can say that I've played hockey when I couldn't lift my arm above my head. But it was no contact hockey. Same shoulder too, if what I saw was correct.

If he can skate and play the puck maybe he gets in the lineup, the wheels and smarts are still valuable. You could tell from the anthem in game 7 he was playing in pain, just by the look on his face.

Hockey is one part playing through the pain.

Sure, probably most players have an injury of some kind at this point. I'm just going off no-contact the day before the game. I expect at least 1 day of contact before playing. Not written in stone. Just gauging probability.

 

[Gm0ney]

It's wild, Stanley keeps bucking fans opinion's with stats, which probably drives the stats nerds crazy.

For me is more of an indictment of the stats. I don't think Stanley is near as bad as people think, but i don't think he's a good as the stats painted him to be this season or in the playoffs.

I think every mistake he makes is magnified to the 100x, and when he does f*** up it's sometimes a doozy.

It's a very interesting phenomenon.

The bad news for stats nerds and anti-stats Jets fans alike is that the Jets preferred 3rd pairing has been Stanley-Schenn, and together they have sucked. Also, they're both penalty-taking machines...

You have to look at their WOWY numbers to see it in the stats because Stanley's had very good numbers in a small sample away from Schenn...

Stanley+Schenn at 5v5 (sucks):

TOI	CF	FF	SF	GF	xGF	SCF	HDCF
36:04	24-27 47%	19-19 50%	9-13 41%	1-4 -3 20%	1.2-1.5 44%	11-14 44%	6-8 43%

Stanley without Schenn (very good, small sample alert):

TOI	CF	FF	SF	GF	xGF	SCF	HDCF
19:00	17-15 53%	15-6 71%	6-3 66%	1-0 +1 100%	1.1-0.25 81%	7-2 78%	4-1 80%

Schenn without Stanley (pretty good, oof those goals against though: 7 on 2.8 xGA):

TOI	CF	FF	SF	GF	xGF	SCF	HDCF
66:33	72-69 51%	53-47 53%	35-27 41%	2-7 -5 22%	3.6-2.8 56%	36-35 51%	16-16 50%

Jets without either (good, except unlucky on GA again):

TOI	CF	FF	SF	GF	xGF	SCF	HDCF
241:19	240-203 54%	162-150 52%	98-89 52%	8-10 -2 44%	7.7-7.7 50%	97-85 53%	40-33 55%

 

[voyageur]

The bad news for stats nerds and anti-stats Jets fans alike is that the Jets preferred 3rd pairing has been Stanley-Schenn, and together they have sucked. Also, they're both penalty-taking machines...

You have to look at their WOWY numbers to see it in the stats because Stanley's had very good numbers in a small sample away from Schenn...

Stanley+Schenn at 5v5 (sucks):

TOI	CF	FF	SF	GF	xGF	SCF	HDCF
36:04	24-27 47%	19-19 50%	9-13 41%	1-4 -3 20%	1.2-1.5 44%	11-14 44%	6-8 43%

Stanley without Schenn (very good, small sample alert):

TOI	CF	FF	SF	GF	xGF	SCF	HDCF
19:00	17-15 53%	15-6 71%	6-3 66%	1-0 +1 100%	1.1-0.25 81%	7-2 78%	4-1 80%

Schenn without Stanley (pretty good, oof those goals against though: 7 on 2.8 xGA):

TOI	CF	FF	SF	GF	xGF	SCF	HDCF
66:33	72-69 51%	53-47 53%	35-27 41%	2-7 -5 22%	3.6-2.8 56%	36-35 51%	16-16 50%

Jets without either (good, except unlucky on GA again):

TOI	CF	FF	SF	GF	xGF	SCF	HDCF
241:19	240-203 54%	162-150 52%	98-89 52%	8-10 -2 44%	7.7-7.7 50%	97-85 53%	40-33 55%

What were their stats in the one game vs. Dallas this year?

 

[Gil Fisher]

Its a wild coincidence, but I'm currently playing through a rotator cuff injury, because I'm too stupid to rest. I've buggered every one of my joints at one time or another.

It hurts to lift my arm especially under load, and occasionally certain movements are painful as hell. Sleeping sucks too as I'm a side sleeper.

I will say this shoulder (my control hand) is significantly more difficult to play with. Shooting was pretty much a no go and it was hard to get strong passes off, especially across my body.

It was much easier to play when it was my top hand, I hardly noticed it.

I won't tell you how I hurt myself. It's too embarrassing (it wasn't hockey).

Went through similar for years, both shoulders, seemingly taking turns. Didn't fully heal until I got off.my side and started sleeping on my front. One knee up, elbows not more than 60° from my sides. Reduces snoring too!

 

[Eyeseeing]

Went through similar for years, both shoulders, seemingly taking turns. Didn't fully heal until I got off.my side and started sleeping on my front. On, knee up, elbows not more than 60° from my sides. Reduces snoring too!

The Jets HF injury bay.
Right knee scoped 1990’s
Both hips replaced 2015 ( April/Sept)
Left rotator cuff surgery 2017
Currently on waiting list for Right rotator cuff surgery.
Still golfing, still lifting.
The alternative of inactivity is far worse
Tylenol should come in candy flavour if you ask me.

 

[Jet]

The bad news for stats nerds and anti-stats Jets fans alike is that the Jets preferred 3rd pairing has been Stanley-Schenn, and together they have sucked. Also, they're both penalty-taking machines...

You have to look at their WOWY numbers to see it in the stats because Stanley's had very good numbers in a small sample away from Schenn...

Stanley+Schenn at 5v5 (sucks):

TOI	CF	FF	SF	GF	xGF	SCF	HDCF
36:04	24-27 47%	19-19 50%	9-13 41%	1-4 -3 20%	1.2-1.5 44%	11-14 44%	6-8 43%

Stanley without Schenn (very good, small sample alert):

TOI	CF	FF	SF	GF	xGF	SCF	HDCF
19:00	17-15 53%	15-6 71%	6-3 66%	1-0 +1 100%	1.1-0.25 81%	7-2 78%	4-1 80%

Schenn without Stanley (pretty good, oof those goals against though: 7 on 2.8 xGA):

TOI	CF	FF	SF	GF	xGF	SCF	HDCF
66:33	72-69 51%	53-47 53%	35-27 41%	2-7 -5 22%	3.6-2.8 56%	36-35 51%	16-16 50%

Jets without either (good, except unlucky on GA again):

TOI	CF	FF	SF	GF	xGF	SCF	HDCF
241:19	240-203 54%	162-150 52%	98-89 52%	8-10 -2 44%	7.7-7.7 50%	97-85 53%	40-33 55%

So, what's your theory about why Stanley's numbers seem to outperform what we're seeing on the ice (and why people think Stanley's worse than he actually is?).

Not being combative, just genuinely curious. It's it an anomaly? Sample size? Bias?

I think the secret is tied to why the Jets keep using him despite fans stunning to have a seething hate for him.

 

[Jet]

Went through similar for years, both shoulders, seemingly taking turns. Didn't fully heal until I got off.my side and started sleeping on my front. On, knee up, elbows not more than 60° from my sides. Reduces snoring too!

I've been sleeping on my back. It was really hard to get used to (feels abnormal) but I'm liking it more

 

[Jet]

The bad news for stats nerds and anti-stats Jets fans alike is that the Jets preferred 3rd pairing has been Stanley-Schenn, and together they have sucked. Also, they're both penalty-taking machines...

You have to look at their WOWY numbers to see it in the stats because Stanley's had very good numbers in a small sample away from Schenn...

Stanley+Schenn at 5v5 (sucks):

TOI	CF	FF	SF	GF	xGF	SCF	HDCF
36:04	24-27 47%	19-19 50%	9-13 41%	1-4 -3 20%	1.2-1.5 44%	11-14 44%	6-8 43%

Stanley without Schenn (very good, small sample alert):

TOI	CF	FF	SF	GF	xGF	SCF	HDCF
19:00	17-15 53%	15-6 71%	6-3 66%	1-0 +1 100%	1.1-0.25 81%	7-2 78%	4-1 80%

Schenn without Stanley (pretty good, oof those goals against though: 7 on 2.8 xGA):

TOI	CF	FF	SF	GF	xGF	SCF	HDCF
66:33	72-69 51%	53-47 53%	35-27 41%	2-7 -5 22%	3.6-2.8 56%	36-35 51%	16-16 50%

Jets without either (good, except unlucky on GA again):

TOI	CF	FF	SF	GF	xGF	SCF	HDCF
241:19	240-203 54%	162-150 52%	98-89 52%	8-10 -2 44%	7.7-7.7 50%	97-85 53%	40-33 55%

Yeah i think to be truly effective you need a complimentary partner, and those two together just don't fit.

For me, when healthy, Schenn - Fleury is my preferred bottom pair, especially if Fleury can replicate game 7s performance. Unfortunately, we've seen him play well before and then fall off a cliff

 

[TS Quint]

Its a wild coincidence, but I'm currently playing through a rotator cuff injury, because I'm too stupid to rest. I've buggered every one of my joints at one time or another.

It hurts to lift my arm especially under load, and occasionally certain movements are painful as hell. Sleeping sucks too as I'm a side sleeper.

I will say this shoulder (my control hand) is significantly more difficult to play with. Shooting was pretty much a no go and it was hard to get strong passes off, especially across my body.

It was much easier to play when it was my top hand, I hardly noticed it.

I won't tell you how I hurt myself. It's too embarrassing (it wasn't hockey).

I’ve torn up both my shoulders with what were described as massive tears. Stick work was never a problem. Nothing below my chest was a problem. Raising my arm with my shoulder ended just below shoulder height. Anything below that was fine.

Every day I regret playing though it. A few things for you to take note of as you are playing through it (although you sound like an expert on joint injuries already). First make sure you get checked out, Pan Am was great. If you need surgery, you got 6 weeks to get it done for best results. Fun fact, if you get surgery and don’t have a recliner (you will need one) you can get a prescription for a rental.

 

[Weezeric]

Stanley and Schenn are just a bad pairing because they both have the same weaknesses. I would take both Stan-Miller or Fleury-Schenn instead. They just need someone with mobility beside them.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Yeah i think to be truly effective you need a complimentary partner, and those two together just don't fit.

For me, when healthy, Schenn - Fleury is my preferred bottom pair, especially if Fleury can replicate game 7s performance. Unfortunately, we've seen him play well before and then fall off a cliff

Let’s hope fleury can repeat.

 

[Howard Chuck]

So, what's your theory about why Stanley's numbers seem to outperform what we're seeing on the ice (and why people think Stanley's worse than he actually is?).

Not being combative, just genuinely curious. It's it an anomaly? Sample size? Bias?

I think the secret is tied to why the Jets keep using him despite fans stunning to have a seething hate for him.

For me, it’s exactly as you’ve mentioned earlier. His mistakes are not just small ones but often catastrophic… Losing a game, ruining a shut out, an terribly timed penalty etc.. in my opinion, the numbers often show errors but not the magnitude of the errors.

I can’t count the number of times that he has time and passes directly to an opposing player. Does each one of those passes count as a zone exit if it’s received by an opponent outside of the blue line? I don’t actually know, but just trying to make sense of the numbers and reconcile them with my eye test.

Just the fact that we are going to be playing actual hockey against fast skilled teams now, makes me hope that we use someone with more speed than size, which he doesn’t use anyway.

 

[Jets 31]

He's a polarizing player for sure

I think that there is a certain portion of the population that just feel comfortable going along with whatever views are popular at a given time. Not everyone is cut out to be a critical thinker, and it takes a certain degree of confidence and security in one's self to stand up and disagree with the mob

You can tell where someone gets their news from these days within 30 seconds of listening to their viewpoint on any given topic. People can be very tribal that way

My feelings on Stanley are i don't think he is good enough to be a regular in the starting 6 . I don't think he has enough hockey smarts to be a regular, hence the dumb penalties or bad plays with the puck. 7th defenseman or playing if we think we need size that game is absolutely fine with me.

 

[Buffdog]

For me, it’s exactly as you’ve mentioned earlier. His mistakes are not just small ones but often catastrophic… Losing a game, ruining a shut out, an terribly timed penalty etc.. in my opinion, the numbers often show errors but not the magnitude of the errors.

I can’t count the number of times that he has time and passes directly to an opposing player. Does each one of those passes count as a zone exit if it’s received by an opponent outside of the blue line? I don’t actually know, but just trying to make sense of the numbers and reconcile them with my eye test.

Just the fact that we are going to be playing actual hockey against fast skilled teams now, makes me hope that we use someone with more speed than size, which he doesn’t use anyway.

Is there a possibility that you notice it more with Stnnley than other D men because you're biased against him?

The reality is that it happens to every single decensemen in the league, but you're more likely to see it if you're watching it

Realistically, you're talking about anecdotes... but the stats guys will tell you that over a long enough period, that should show up in the numbers. And during the season (and so far in thr playoffs), he's largely fine as long as he's paired with the right partner and his minutes and matchups are managed properly.. which is what you'd expect for any bottom pairing defenseman

I still think the hatred for Stanley is a self-fullfilling thing that started with Garrett's article about him prior to the draft (that I suspect had less to do with what he thought about the player and more to do with letting the world know that he has some kind of inside scoop on what an NHL team is planning) and has snowballed from there. When the entire fan base is biased against him and just holding their breath for him to f*** up so they can say "SEE!!!! STANLEY SUCKS" when it happens... while ignoring the same gaffes from other players

 

[surixon]

For me, it’s exactly as you’ve mentioned earlier. His mistakes are not just small ones but often catastrophic… Losing a game, ruining a shut out, an terribly timed penalty etc.. in my opinion, the numbers often show errors but not the magnitude of the errors.

I can’t count the number of times that he has time and passes directly to an opposing player. Does each one of those passes count as a zone exit if it’s received by an opponent outside of the blue line? I don’t actually know, but just trying to make sense of the numbers and reconcile them with my eye test.

Just the fact that we are going to be playing actual hockey against fast skilled teams now, makes me hope that we use someone with more speed than size, which he doesn’t use anyway.

The Microstats I've seen would count as an exit without control. Garrett's zone exit Microstats align with your eye test. The Stanley/Schenn pairing can't get the puck out of their end.

Stanley 32% successful zone exit with control but he's over 40% in terms of failed zone exits.

Schenn has a similar successful zone exit with control but he's much better then Stanley at being able to chip the puck out as he only has 25% in the failed zone exit percentage.

So really Stanley's issue has been puck management in his end this post season.

 

[surixon]

Is there a possibility that you notice it more with Stnnley than other D men because you're biased against him?

The reality is that it happens to every single decensemen in the league, but you're more likely to see it if you're watching it

Realistically, you're talking about anecdotes... but the stats guys will tell you that over a long enough period, that should show up in the numbers. And during the season (and so far in thr playoffs), he's largely fine as long as he's paired with the right partner and his minutes and matchups are managed properly.. which is what you'd expect for any bottom pairing defenseman

I still think the hatred for Stanley is a self-fullfilling thing that started with Garrett's article about him prior to the draft (that I suspect had less to do with what he thought about the player and more to do with letting the world know that he has some kind of inside scoop on what an NHL team is planning) and has snowballed from there. When the entire fan base is biased against him and just holding their breath for him to f*** up so they can say "SEE!!!! STANLEY SUCKS" when it happens... while ignoring the same gaffes from other players

He's not biased in terms of transition. Stanley is at the very bottom in terms of zone exit microstats.