Jets Culture / The Room

[bumblebeeman]

This post is inspired by the video from a neutral youtuber, not that his opinions are that deep, but it is interesting hearing what non-Jets fans think of the team. But his video touches on something I've been thinking about a lot lately, how the teams recent success has completely stopped the discussion of the problems in the room.

I guess personally I was always skeptical that that was a real issue, that fans just need a scapegoat when the team is playing below their talent level. But now they are playing above their level, everyone is playing hard 2-way hockey, even some of the players who have been sometimes floaty the past few years like Scheifele. Is this because the room is fixed? Is it coaching? Is it luck? Is having one player in the top 6 not wanting to be here enough to sink the team?

Thinking back to how much blame Wheeler and Scheifele got for Laine wanting to leave. It seems wayyy more likely now that Laine was the problem. Dubois as well. At least to me. What he touches on in the video which is really true is that most players don't want to be in Winnipeg. That is just an undeniable fact. It just makes it all the more special that guys like Helle and Scheif and others are willing to sign reasonable deals and be such great representatives for the team and the city. Without them the team would be re-building right now. It's a shame Laine couldn't buy in in this same way, and also that Wheeler got thrown under the bus by some for that tension, considering he was such a good leader and iconic Jet, but that's how it goes. Maybe the Jets not getting any other high picks is a blessing in disguise.

Anyways, now that the team is on a roll it seems like all the players are having fun and are playing hard. Winning solves a lot of issues I think. Let's enjoy the ride, and when things stop going so well let's keep enjoying the ride. Go Jets

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[DRW204]

i didn't watch the video but just on your notes, i dont buy your conclusion on laine. i did share your thoughts initially years ago though.
however, the "room" or "culture" wasn't fixed immediately after laine left. if it was, i can buy your premise. but lots happened after that trade in early 2021 until ultimately the Wheeler buy out to still give the impression that there was some issues, and bowness' 1st year he spoke about this numerous times during that season.

ie: had a post similar to this so easy to find, in the 2nd half of the 22-23 season almost each month he publicly brought up motivation, commitment, accountability bunch of other team problems
March: 'That's what we're dealing with': Jets' Bowness pulls back curtain on issue of motivation, commitment
Feb: Jets' Bowness resumes candidness Monday after rare night off
Jan: 'I'm surprised there weren't more boos': Jets' Rick Bowness, after a disastrous night

up until the loss against vegas where he went off on the team. and then the Stastny press conference too rose some eyebrows.

IMO a lot of it got fixed after that year.

lot of the Jets players spoke highly of PLD iirc. He didn't want to sign here long term, that's his choice.

anyway, winning is fun, contagious and cures a lot. this team is on a roll and bonding.

 

[surixon]

This post is inspired by the video from a neutral youtuber, not that his opinions are that deep, but it is interesting hearing what non-Jets fans think of the team. But his video touches on something I've been thinking about a lot lately, how the teams recent success has completely stopped the discussion of the problems in the room.

I guess personally I was always skeptical that that was a real issue, that fans just need a scapegoat when the team is playing below their talent level. But now they are playing above their level, everyone is playing hard 2-way hockey, even some of the players who have been sometimes floaty the past few years like Scheifele. Is this because the room is fixed? Is it coaching? Is it luck? Is having one player in the top 6 not wanting to be here enough to sink the team?

Thinking back to how much blame Wheeler and Scheifele got for Laine wanting to leave. It seems wayyy more likely now that Laine was the problem. Dubois as well. At least to me. What he touches on in the video which is really true is that most players don't want to be in Winnipeg. That is just an undeniable fact. It just makes it all the more special that guys like Helle and Scheif and others are willing to sign reasonable deals and be such great representatives for the team and the city. Without them the team would be re-building right now. It's a shame Laine couldn't buy in in this same way, and also that Wheeler got thrown under the bus by some for that tension, considering he was such a good leader and iconic Jet, but that's how it goes. Maybe the Jets not getting any other high picks is a blessing in disguise.

Anyways, now that the team is on a roll it seems like all the players are having fun and are playing hard. Winning solves a lot of issues I think. Let's enjoy the ride, and when things stop going so well let's keep enjoying the ride. Go Jets

Good video and some good points, but I definitely do think there were some issues in the room. Maybe they were overblown by us the fans but I think Bones himself alluded to needing to clean the room up.

For instance there was a noticeable difference in demeanor from Scheifele the last two years of Maurice and him under Bones and now Arniel. He went from someone with awful body language to getting back to that upbeat positive person who embraced his leadership role.

Clearly it does look like Laine was an issue as was Dubois. I think Laine would have been happy to stay but he wanted the top dog treatment without really putting in enough work and earning it.

I do think this team functions better when you have all the players happy in the city and we have had that the last two years.

 

[TS Quint]

i didn't watch the video but just on your notes, i dont buy your conclusion on laine. i did share your thoughts initially years ago though.
however, the "room" or "culture" wasn't fixed immediately after laine left. if it was, i can buy your premise. but lots happened after that trade in early 2021 until ultimately the Wheeler buy out to still give the impression that there was some issues, and bowness' 1st year he spoke about this numerous times during that season.

ie: had a post similar to this so easy to find, in the 2nd half of the 22-23 season almost each month he publicly brought up motivation, commitment, accountability bunch of other team problems
March: 'That's what we're dealing with': Jets' Bowness pulls back curtain on issue of motivation, commitment
Feb: Jets' Bowness resumes candidness Monday after rare night off
Jan: 'I'm surprised there weren't more boos': Jets' Rick Bowness, after a disastrous night

up until the loss against vegas where he went off on the team. and then the Stastny press conference too rose some eyebrows.

IMO a lot of it got fixed after that year.

lot of the Jets players spoke highly of PLD iirc. He didn't want to sign here long term, that's his choice.

anyway, winning is fun, contagious and cures a lot. this team is on a roll and bonding.

Both Laine and Wheeler are complete douche bags. Laine just got given away for free with plenty of time on his contract to turn himself into an asset. The BJs just wanted that clown away from the team.

 

[TS Quint]

We knew there were problems in the Jets locker room going back to when Matt Hendricks was the solution. Thing really seemed out of control once old man Lowry became head coach and normally team first guys like Connor and Ehlers were clearly frustrated with their team mates in interviews.

 

[surixon]

We knew there were problems in the Jets locker room going back to when Matt Hendricks was the solution. Thing really seemed out of control once old man Lowry became head coach and normally team first guys like Connor and Ehlers were clearly frustrated with their team mates in interviews.

Agreed. I think Wheeler had more then worn out his welcome as the leader by then and the younger guys wanted more control. I thought there was very clearly a power struggle going on as you got a number of players disagreeing with the captain in interviews.

 

[surixon]

Both Laine and Wheeler are complete douche bags. Laine just got given away for free with plenty of time on his contract to turn himself into an asset. The BJs just wanted that clown away from the team.

I don't know that Wheeler was that big of a douchebag. He was a good ambassador for the city for many years. I think he was just an overly intense person, who in his own words struggled with developing an off switch. That in your face leadership style likely wore on the other players over time, especially after Buff retired and Little was forced into early retirement. I feel he was an excellent leader for this group when he had Buff to Co lead with him. The two probably balanced each other out quite well.

 

[TS Quint]

I don't know that Wheeler was that big of a douchebag. He was a good ambassador for the city for many years. I think he was just an overly intense person, who in his own words struggled with developing an off switch. That in your face leadership style likely wore on the other players over time, especially after Buff retired and Little was forced into early retirement. I feel he was an excellent leader for this group when he had Buff to Co lead with him. The two probably balanced each other out quite well.

Im sure he was a decent guy outside of the team. He was a poor leader. He couldn't handle criticism, never accepted responsibility and probably a little dumb. The guy stopped answering the media after loses in his last year of being the so called captain because he couldn't handle reality. Seems like that boss you have that is wrong quite often but takes it personally when you tell them you disagree with them. No discussions, just hissy fits.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I know Hellebuyck and Scheifele were checking all their options on other teams, Hellebuyck almost went to the Devils. As for Scheifele he had a conversation with Chevy about winning a cup. Think he did try to trade him and thought he could get more money elsewhere, so Chevy exercised their rights and resolved it with them being given the contracts they got.

Wheeler did well for us, but I wonder how good we could've been had we not had named him captain in the first place. Could say get rid of him but the captaincy is what really got to his head.

 

[Shlep]

Culture is always good when you're winning, culture is always bad when you're losing. We have no idea what the culture is. The Jets had their most successful season to date with Wheeler as the captain.

 

[surixon]

Im sure he was a decent guy outside of the team. He was a poor leader. He couldn't handle criticism, never accepted responsibility and probably a little dumb. The guy stopped answering the media after loses in his last year of being the so called captain because he couldn't handle reality. Seems like that boss you have that is wrong quite often but takes it personally when you tell them you disagree with them. No discussions, just hissy fits.

I think it definitely went bad for him in that role the last few years he wore the C here. I look at him like I look at an intense old school coach like Torts. Their leadership is good for a while and achieves results for a bit, but then people get sick of someone in your face all the time and they tune it out. Much like with Maurice, they probably left him as captain a few years too long.

 

[LowLefty]

I don't know that Wheeler was that big of a douchebag. He was a good ambassador for the city for many years. I think he was just an overly intense person, who in his own words struggled with developing an off switch. That in your face leadership style likely wore on the other players over time, especially after Buff retired and Little was forced into early retirement. I feel he was an excellent leader for this group when he had Buff to Co lead with him. The two probably balanced each other out quite well.

I don't see Wheeler as a captain at all -
He was fine when things went well - and not so fine when they didn't. IOW's, when you needed a strong captain the most, he failed.
I also don't think "in your face" is a leadership style - more of a bully style.
I agree with him being a good ambassador for the city - but you don't have wear the C to be that.

I see him as the main reason we had issues in the room - and the main reason Maurice finally moved on.
I also think any coach that was in that room at that time, would have done the same.
Maurice did hang around too long - he should have walked out earlier.

 

[surixon]

I don't see Wheeler as a captain at all -
He was fine when things went well - and not so fine when they didn't. IOW's, when you needed a strong captain the most, he failed.
I also don't think "in your face" is a leadership style - more of a bully style.
I agree with him being a good ambassador for the city - but you don't have wear the C to be that.

I see him as the main reason we had issues in the room - and the main reason Maurice finally moved on.
I also think any coach that was in that room at that time, would have done the same.
Maurice did hang around too long - he should have walked out earlier.

Good rebuttal. I don't view it as an effective leadership style these days either. It doesn't really work anymore.

Interesting thoughts about him and Maurice. I always thought those two got along which Imo was why Maurice lasted as long as he did. Wasn't it Moe that named him captain as well? I thought the issue was more between Mark and him.

 

[LowLefty]

Good rebuttal. I don't view it as an effective leadership style these days either. It doesn't really work anymore.

Interesting thoughts about him and Maurice. I always thought those two got along which Imo was why Maurice lasted as long as he did. Wasn't it Moe that named him captain as well? I thought the issue was more between Mark and him.

I think Maurice was very much in his corner when things were going well - but I don't think he saw what was coming any more than most of us did.
I always saw Wheeler as a good choice for captain - but I was wrong (not that I'm any expert).
Like I said, I really don't know what went on in the room - but I saw what Wheeler looked like with the press and I watched the team slowly evolve (for the better) once he was gone. I think he impacted everyone - players, coaches (and their ability to coach).

 

[surixon]

I think Maurice was very much in his corner when things were going well - but I don't think he saw what was coming any more than most of us did.
I always saw Wheeler as a good choice for captain - but I was wrong (not that I'm any expert).
Like I said, I really don't know what went on in the room - but I saw what Wheeler looked like with the press and I watched the team slowly evolve (for the better) once he was gone. I think he impacted everyone - players, coaches (and their ability to coach).

No disagreements that he was toxic by the end. My guess is Moe and the org didn't know what he'd be like without his buffer (Buff). Things really started to go off the the rails when Buff got injured in 2019 and never recovered as Buff chose not to come back.

 

[voyageur]

I think Maurice was very much in his corner when things were going well - but I don't think he saw what was coming any more than most of us did.
I always saw Wheeler as a good choice for captain - but I was wrong (not that I'm any expert).
Like I said, I really don't know what went on in the room - but I saw what Wheeler looked like with the press and I watched the team slowly evolve (for the better) once he was gone. I think he impacted everyone - players, coaches (and their ability to coach).

I had no problem with Wheeler as C. He was the right guy to take over from Ladd. Family man, on a young developing team.

Listen to Scheif talk about how much Wheeler taught him about passing.

I'm sure he helped Ehlers and Connor in their pro careers

The 2019-20 season he played, with so much talent lost, was the kind of leader who would go through a wall for his coach.

I think if Maurice identified him as a leader he was probably a good leader.

But the downhill side of his career, I don't think he was the best captain. I think he couldn't lead the team anymore. On the ice. He got tired of the media, who kind of became ambivalent towards him.

Did his personality clash with some people?

You see leaders frequently get into arguments with players. MacKinnon has a fire and people revere him...Mc David has a fire and it got the Oilers a long way. I think there are different kinds of leaders and Lowry was a good choice to replace him, but I suspect you would find that everybody still in that Jets dressing room, who suited up with him, respects him.

 

[DRW204]

I don't see Wheeler as a captain at all -
He was fine when things went well - and not so fine when they didn't. IOW's, when you needed a strong captain the most, he failed.
I also don't think "in your face" is a leadership style - more of a bully style.
I agree with him being a good ambassador for the city - but you don't have wear the C to be that.

I see him as the main reason we had issues in the room - and the main reason Maurice finally moved on.
I also think any coach that was in that room at that time, would have done the same.
Maurice did hang around too long - he should have walked out earlier.

Just going to preface by saying not going to get into a huge back and forth on this. Don't think anyone has spent enough time with these individuals to classify them douchebags, or what not.

It is possible he could've been the right choice in 2016 and lead the group at the time. but as time passes things change and perhaps he didn't adjust. Idk things really got better after he left completely.

 

[SensibleGuy]

I think it's important to remember that as fun as this great start to the season has been, nothing has really been accomplished yet. Yeah, the team would have to work pretty hard at being terrible to miss the post season now, but there's nothing saying we don't get bounced in round 1 again. What I mean is everything looks great right now but in a couple months the team could look a lot more like the same old Jets...we could even be talking about locker room issues again! lol. I hope that isn't the case of course, but it's pretty obvious that there's going to be some amount of "returning to normal" sooner or later. A .970 winning percentage probably isn't sustainable .

 

[LowLefty]

Just going to preface by saying not going to get into a huge back and forth on this. Don't think anyone has spent enough time with these individuals to classify them douchebags, or what not.

It is possible he could've been the right choice in 2016 and lead the group at the time. but as time passes things change and perhaps he didn't adjust. Idk things really got better after he left completely.

I'm not going any further with this discussion topic either - this is a touchy subject for many.
Probably should have left this one alone -

 

[scelaton]

I think Maurice was very much in his corner when things were going well - but I don't think he saw what was coming any more than most of us did.
I always saw Wheeler as a good choice for captain - but I was wrong (not that I'm any expert).
Like I said, I really don't know what went on in the room - but I saw what Wheeler looked like with the press and I watched the team slowly evolve (for the better) once he was gone. I think he impacted everyone - players, coaches (and their ability to coach).

Bingo.
Wheeler was the natural choice for captain--talented, experienced, smart, articulate--but the mantle of leadership unleashed a bunch of other negative traits and the end result was toxic.
I don't blame Maurice one bit for getting out of Dodge, as he was smart enough to see that he could not fix things. A less loyal organization would have fired him earlier, which is why I was so frustrated with Jets management during that period. To their credit, they learned their lesson, made a number of difficult decisions and now things are so much better.
You are more right than you know with respect to the bolded, but it wasn't limited to payers and coaches--the team is made of much more than that. I cannot say any more or I'd have to disappear and enter the HF witness protection program....

 

[surixon]

I'm not going any further with this discussion topic either - this is a touchy subject for many.
Probably should have left this one alone -

I've quite enjoyed your take on it, definitely gave me some things to think of.

 

[Gm0ney]

I recall that Maurice kind of warned us about Wheeler becoming captain just before it happened. Said he wore his heart on his sleeve and was intense or something like that.

You could tell Wheeler got pissed off easily. Had zero patience for questions after a bad game sometimes. And I think he was super hard on himself and everyone else when things weren't going well. So he'd be a bit of a tough captain to work under when the team was struggling.

I think the team has played more like a team starting around the instant Wheeler left. But it's a bit of chicken and egg...is the team better because the locker room is better or is that backwards? It's easy to get along when you're the good times are rolling.

 

[Guardian17]

The culture looks pretty good right now!

 

[bumblebeeman]

The culture looks pretty good right now!

Maybe all this behind the scenes stuff, like the runway series on Jets youtube and on social media makes the players try more to seem chill and fun since they know the fans will be seeing it haha

 

[voyageur]

I recall that Maurice kind of warned us about Wheeler becoming captain just before it happened. Said he wore his heart on his sleeve and was intense or something like that.

You could tell Wheeler got pissed off easily. Had zero patience for questions after a bad game sometimes. And I think he was super hard on himself and everyone else when things weren't going well. So he'd be a bit of a tough captain to work under when the team was struggling.

I think the team has played more like a team starting around the instant Wheeler left. But it's a bit of chicken and egg...is the team better because the locker room is better or is that backwards? It's easy to get along when you're the good times are rolling.

Nobody really talks about Dubois. And his impact on the room. I always thought when Stastny was talking about accountability that he referred to Dubois and his bad penalties. People thought it was about Scheifele's backchecking and I am still not so sure. Because Stastny waived his NTC to come back to the same room that had Wheeler and Scheifele as leaders. Maybe Beaulieu and his bonehead games too wore thin. But as many have understated winning generally makes the recipe of a good culture because no one has to shoulder any blame.