GDT: Jets @ Avs | 7:30 pm MT | Hellebuyck Emergency

[Grigowski]

This game isn't the problem. It's the lifeless performances against teams like Chicago, NYR, and Minny that are the problem.

A 2-2-1 homestand is the problem. Where half the time they didn't give a shit.

Sure we lost off a bad bounce tonight, ok so what? Look at the game we got a goal from 29 and 8, elite superstars. Where was the rest of the team? We simply didn't get anything from anyone other than usual suspects. You give them any help and we win.

This team is so far from being competitive it's not even funny.

This. Exactly.

It sucks to lose against a divisional rival. But at least we got a point out of it.

The problem are the games, or "no-shows" against Minny, Rangers (allthough we won that one) and so on... There are just too many to list them.

Our stars allready look tired and out of gas. Not a good receipt to compete this season.

On top this f***ing team will never be healthy..

Lets face it:
A Wildcard team that probably will be golfing by the end of april. With that talent on this team its a shame...... Every f***ing year beside 2022.....

 

[the_fan]

The PP is a glaring issue but it's not the only one. Bednar needs to find a way to spark the bottom of his lineup. I know injuries have been a constant issue, but it can't be an excuse forever. Mitts was one of our best players for the first 20 games or so.

I’m not sure what else Bednar can do to get Mitts going. He tried putting him with pretty much everyone, but in the end it’s up to the player to figure it out. It’s not only that he’s not scoring, he just doesn’t look like he’s engaged and competing out there.

The bottom of the lineup issue is mainly the 2nd line and it’s pretty much on Mittelstadt. He supposed to be the play driver on that line. He did that last year and earlier this year and suddenly plummeted. Without a producing 2nd line, we can’t win many games. It has happened to us before and it’s happening again

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I thought they played hard and showed a lot of heart. The problem is that they are just Pejorative Slured.

Yep. We should pin a participation ribbon on each and everyone of the players chest. They should be required to wear them on their suits coming into the arena for their next game.

 

[Pokecheque]

Of all the recent losses, this one upset me the least. There were a lot of the same things that have been plaguing them (bad power play, etc.) but I thought they, for the most part, outplayed Winnipeg.

Fantastic showing by both goalies. Wish Cale hadn’t forced that pass so early in OT but I thought it was a good showing from him otherwise, his goal was highlight reel stuff.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I look at it as baby steps. Your criticism is valid, but every team goes through some lows in the season. Vegas just lost to bottom feeders for the entire last two weeks at home and nobody is complaining about them.

Not going to judge him in Buffalo because it's Buffalo, but it could be a placement issue on the PP with him. He seems like somebody who needs the Mikko Rantanen spot to be effective, but Avs ain't going to give him that because that is Mikko f***ing Rantanen's spot lol. The half wall, where he can use his vision and playmaking ability to make cross-crease passes, tip passes, or one-timer passes much better than Rantanen who just forces plays all the effin' time. I called the CM trade a solid trade, but I never claimed it as great/excellent and that's because the bloke has engagement issues. It prevented him from being a PPG in Buffalo, it caused Buffalo to trade him, and it is causing the fanbase to turn against him here (rightfully so). However, I do think the talent is there to turn it around, you don't go from how he played last season and its playoffs, to opening the season as he did this year, to end up being a ghost for long portions of the game the last two months. Bednar putting him all over the place isn't doing anything great either.

I've never denied that on any given night any team in the NHL can beat another. That's part of the entire allure of our fake standings system and loser points.

But this isn't just some one off game in the season on some random week in January. This team has been inconsistent at very best and dog shit in actuality most other nights. This isn't a one off thing. The lack-luster and inconsistent play of our skaters has nothing to do with the goalies anymore and hasn't for well over a month. This is on the skaters and the coaches alone. Goaltending has been solid, stable and for the most part entirely better than expected for a month now.

And for this month, our team has completely sucked and let the goalies down. They've one almost 50% of their games but even the victories were not really statments. I mean if you want to say the Avs put down a statement win in Dallas with a 6-3 outing, sure...there was a bright spot this month. The fact they followed it up with a 3-1 L to Minny two days later and this turd of a game tonight, whatever.

Players, coaches, management...as a fan at this point, I really don't care. I just want to see someone do something different. I'm not even really asking for heads to roll. Just do something new and different. Grow for a change.

 

[the_fan]

The bottom of lineup is so f***ing bad it's not even funny.

Innala 0 pts 15 games
Ivan 8pts in 40 games
Kelly 11 pts in 49 games
LOC 14 pts in 49 games
Kivi 15 pts in 49 games
Parsnip 7 pts 27 games
Malinski 5 pts in 46 games
De Haan 7 pts in 37 games
boatload of other guys who've been in the lineup are all worthless with minimal point totals.

These numbers are eye popping bad. Like how do we even win games bad. Throw in a guy like Mitts who has like 9 pts over his last 25 and we are f***ed.

Kivi, Kelly, LOC numbers aren’t bad. Kivi and Kelly are more of 4th liners, and if we were fully healthy they’d be our 4th line, so I’m not worried about those guys. I’m worried about how we gonna fix the 2nd line

 

[expatriatedtexan]

The depth of this team is being exposed badly right now.

96 is being exposed badly right now.

37 is being exposed to the point I'd kill for JTC.

You've got some great parts, but after great there is a drastic drop off. I feel like it's 2 prime race horses, 1 kind of race horse but sometimes donkey, 1 quality goalie horse, 1 solid backup goalie horse, 3 or 4 decent horses who are at least in the race, then like 12 alpacas who have no f***ing clue what they are doing and running aimlessly down the track.

Then throw in 3 clueless trainers (coaches) and you have our team.

96 is a boat anchor. He does nothing other than one times perfect passes that had no business getting through the traffic they got through to get to him.

You put a pass a millimeter ahead or behind his "sweet" spot and it will just continue on to the boards and the other team will get pocession. For what that fat f*** is paid he needs to be doing a hell of a lot more than he is. I really hope the only reason he hasn't been traded is because nobody else in the league is willing to take him. The money he's asking for compared to the shits he gives is completely unbalanced.

 

[Foppa2118]

This was a game the Avs could have won, but no offense outside the top line and top pair, combined with a couple mistakes cost them.

Mistakes were Parsinnen losing his man on the backcheck and Middleton getting beat wide and letting the back door pass get through. Then Makar making a bad pass in OT to give up possession, followed by Nate getting way out of position mixed up with Cale, and giving up too much time and space to step into an unstoppable slapper in OT. That small margin of error on two shifts was the difference.

But this team is so desperate for some offense outside of Nate, Mikko, Drouin, Makar, and Toews. It doesn't help that they all play together too. So they'll have a great shift, then the team has to wait 2-3 more shifts to get any offense again. Can't win games like that. LOC with another great game, but he can only do so much.

Mitts lack of offense is really killing this team right now. That second line needs a guy that drives the play not one that kills it. He's great at making his body look like he's skating or working really hard, but nothing ever comes from it.

Also another game they were desperately missing the big bodies of Val, Landy, and Wood. Avs won the perimeter and rush game. Jets won the net front game at both ends.

If I were to take a positive out of this one though, it's that the Avs were right there with the Jets all game, and matched Hellebuyck in goaltending. So if they can just get a couple guys back and make some moves to improve the scoring depth, and the bottom pair, they can win a tight playoff style game like this against one of the best teams in the league.

 

[Ceremony]

I liked Mittelstadt's breakaway.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

The bottom of lineup is so f***ing bad it's not even funny.

Innala 0 pts 15 games
Ivan 8pts in 40 games
Kelly 11 pts in 49 games
LOC 14 pts in 49 games
Kivi 15 pts in 49 games
Parsnip 7 pts 27 games
Malinski 5 pts in 46 games
De Haan 7 pts in 37 games
boatload of other guys who've been in the lineup are all worthless with minimal point totals.

These numbers are eye popping bad. Like how do we even win games bad. Throw in a guy like Mitts who has like 9 pts over his last 25 and we are f***ed.

Very good production for 4th liners...

 

[chet1926]

Kivi, Kelly, LOC numbers aren’t bad. Kivi and Kelly are more of 4th liners, and if we were fully healthy they’d be our 4th line, so I’m not worried about those guys. I’m worried about how we gonna fix the 2nd line

That's fair, but they are playing 3rd line and getting 3rd line mins, so their numbers kind of blow.

It's part of the issue, players are playing way out of their skill level and are being exposed.

The depth on the team is absolute trash and will get worse if they think it's wise to give 96 14M.

Very good production for 4th liners...

Exactly, except your entire bottom 6 and can't be a 4th liners or AHLers.

 

[Balthazar]

It's pretty pointless to say they have good production for 4th liners when these guys have been playing middle 6 minutes for the whole season.

 

[AslanRH]

Came for the doomscrolling and wasn't disappointed.

I think the Sam M experiment has ended and he will be sent out by the TDL.
Middleton needs to be the #7, CDH the #8 and magically the Avs can find an entire new 3rd pairing.
Parsnip does nothing for me.
I wish we could bionic man Landy's leg and then just staple him to Mitts for the rest of the year.

 

[chet1926]

This was a game the Avs could have won, but no offense outside the top line and top pair, combined with a couple mistakes cost them.

Mistakes were Parsinnen losing his man on the backcheck and Middleton getting beat wide and letting the back door pass get through. Then Makar making a bad pass in OT to give up possession, followed by Nate getting way out of position mixed up with Cale, and giving up too much time and space to step into an unstoppable slapper in OT. That small margin of error on two shifts was the difference.

But this team is so desperate for some offense outside of Nate, Mikko, Drouin, Makar, and Toews. It doesn't help that they all play together too. So they'll have a great shift, then the team has to wait 2-3 more shifts to get any offense again. Can't win games like that. LOC with another great game, but he can only do so much.

Mitts lack of offense is really killing this team right now. That second line needs a guy that drives the play not one that kills it. He's great at making his body look like he's skating or working really hard, but nothing ever comes from it.

Also another game they were desperately missing the big bodies of Val, Landy, and Wood. Avs won the perimeter and rush game. Jets won the net front game at both ends.

If I were to take a positive out of this one though, it's that the Avs were right there with the Jets all game, and matched Hellebuyck in goaltending. So if they can just get a couple guys back and make some moves to improve the scoring depth, and the bottom pair, they can win a tight playoff style game like this against one of the best teams in the league.

I personally wouldn't measure against the Jets. Sure they are having another great regular season but they simply aren't that great outside of Hellebuyck. He covers up a lot. If he isn't in net last night we win probably 5-2. He made at least 3 saves that most goalies in the league don't. If he has an elite postseason they will be dangerous but if he's even a .910 goalie in the playoffs they'll experience an early exit again.

The two teams to measure against IMO are Edmonton, who after we ran out to a 3 goal lead took us to the woodshed. And the other is Dallas, not this version of Dallas, but the version after they use the 9M Seguin LTIR. If they add a solid piece or two at the deadline and they are really tough. Great goalie, solid defense, and a well rounded 4 line offense.

 

[chet1926]

It's pretty pointless to say they have good production for 4th liners when these guys have been playing middle 6 minutes for the whole season.

Exactly, the depth is not even remotely close to what is needed at the NHL level.

Honestly with Mitts playing the way he is, the bottom 9 isn't close.

You have basically 29, 96, 27, 62 and 13 (when healthy), and then maybe 25, 20 and 28 (when healthy) as passable 3rd liners, 2 of which are probably better 4th liners (25 and 28). So this tells me we need a 2C, 2 real 3rd liners and another 4th liner.

Then on defense you need a 2nd pairing guy to play with 49, and at least one 3rd pairing guy to play with 42. And also say a reliable 7th dman as well.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Our 4th line when we won the Cup:

Cogliano - Helm - O'Connor

Speed. Tenacity. Defensively responsible. Forechecking animals. Hockey IQ. Leadership.

Glory days...

 

[LOFIN]

Exactly, the depth is not even remotely close to what is needed at the NHL level.

Honestly with Mitts playing the way he is, the bottom 9 isn't close.

You have basically 29, 96, 27, 62 and 13 (when healthy), and then maybe 25, 20 and 28 (when healthy) as passable 3rd liners, 2 of which are probably better 4th liners (25 and 28). So this tells me we need a 2C, 2 real 3rd liners and another 4th liner.

Then on defense you need a 2nd pairing guy to play with 49, and at least one 3rd pairing guy to play with 42. And also say a reliable 7th dman as well.

No team is designed to operate with this amount of injuries to key positions. None. Mitts and RossCo are really the only two players "underperforming" based on their quality of play.

 

[chet1926]

No team is designed to operate with this amount of injuries to key positions. None. Mitts and RossCo are really the only two players "underperforming" based on their quality of play.

I can't even be that mad at Ross Colton's production. He's at 16pts in 32 games which is .5 pts/game. Which over an 82 game schedule is 41 pts, which is fine for a 3rd liner.

I understand he is slightly inflated due to his hot start and playing with 29 and 96. But his overall production pace as of now is fine, we'll see what happens by the end of the year. I think he can hit the 20 goal plateau which is tolerable based on expectations.

Mitts is the true problem. Like extreme black hole, to the point you can't really put anyone with him or their production comes to a halt as well problem. Don't know what you are supposed to do or how they can fix this.

 

[Pokecheque]

No team is designed to operate with this amount of injuries to key positions. None. Mitts and RossCo are really the only two players "underperforming" based on their quality of play.

Generally speaking they're only missing two key players (Wood doesn't count IMO). Mind you, it's their two best two-way forwards and best net-front guys, so that really hurts, but they should still be able to weather that storm, especially now that the goaltending is doing more than their fair share. But with Mitts and Colton struggling, that problem is compounded, because the third pairing and 2/3rds of the third line are simply not comprised of good NHL players. I should say that Kelly and Kiviranta would be perfectly fine 4th line players but they're out of their depth on the third line and it's readily apparent with each subsequent shift.

This team had no margin for error following the Cup win and for the most part...they've erred. They haven't really drafted or developed a worthwhile depth player and they sure as hell haven't used their cap space wisely. About the only thing they've done right recently is fix their goaltending, but that covers up the fact they absolutely WRECKED it going into this season, and the reverberations of that mistake are still being felt.

 

[LOFIN]

I can't even be that mad at Ross Colton's production. He's at 16pts in 32 games which is .5 pts/game. Which over an 82 game schedule is 41 pts, which is fine for a 3rd liner.

I understand he is slightly inflated due to his hot start and playing with 29 and 96. But his overall production pace as of now is fine, we'll see what happens by the end of the year. I think he can hit the 20 goal plateau which is tolerable based on expectations.

Mitts is the true problem. Like extreme black hole, to the point you can't really put anyone with him or their production comes to a halt as well problem. Don't know what you are supposed to do or how they can fix this.

Ross started the season great. But after his injury, it has been 5 goals, 7 points in 22 games. That's less than Kiviranta and O'Connor, 1 point more than Kelly, and he makes more than all 3 combined! Not good enough. But yeah, Mitts is the bigger underachiever.

But honestly, can add Nuke and Gabe to that list as well, like I said in the rumour/trade thread. Availability is paramount. We need those players on the ice. Drouin would also fit that mold, but he makes just 2.5M so whatever.

 

[Balthazar]

Generally speaking they're only missing two key players (Wood doesn't count IMO). Mind you, it's their two best two-way forwards and best net-front guys, so that really hurts, but they should still be able to weather that storm, especially now that the goaltending is doing more than their fair share.

We are spending Landy's cap hit on other players so we shouldn't count him.

Only Nuke is missing.

I can't even be that mad at Ross Colton's production. He's at 16pts in 32 games which is .5 pts/game. Which over an 82 game schedule is 41 pts, which is fine for a 3rd liner.

He didn't get that production on the 3rd line so it shouldn't be viewed like that. He got prime top 6 opportunities so 0.5 PPG isn't very good.

 

[LOFIN]

We are spending Landy's cap hit on other players so we shouldn't count him.

Ironically, it's what some people want to do with Mikko in the future.

Assuming Landeskog is even at 80%. Would you rather have Landeskog at 80%, OR RossCo&Wood? Because that's who we are spending his cap on. I will include him in this discussion, because I'd rather have Landy than two bottom-6 forwards that we are using his cap into (yeah 500k difference but who counts 'em).

 

[Pokecheque]

We are spending Landy's cap hit on other players so we shouldn't count him.

Only Nuke is missing.

Oh no, we should absolutely count him--the cap space is being (partially) spent on players who aren't getting the job done, that's the point.

He didn't get that production on the 3rd line so it shouldn't be viewed like that. He got prime top 6 opportunities so 0.5 PPG isn't very good.

Agreed.

 

[chet1926]

We are spending Landy's cap hit on other players so we shouldn't count him.

Only Nuke is missing.


He didn't get that production on the 3rd line so it shouldn't be viewed like that. He got prime top 6 opportunities so 0.5 PPG isn't very good.

That's because Ross is mid as hell. All I'm saying is that if he hits 20 goals this year, which is plausible, that's fine for a 4M player. How he got there isn't really my concern, 20 goals is 20 goals.

He needs to step up to get there, as his play since his injury return has been ass.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Ironically, it's what some people want to do with Mikko in the future.

Assuming Landeskog is even at 80%. Would you rather have Landeskog at 80%, OR RossCo&Wood? Because that's who we are spending his cap on. I will include him in this discussion, because I'd rather have Landy than two bottom-6 forwards that we are using his cap into (yeah 500k difference but who counts 'em).

Landy just being in front of the net on the PP and defensively solid is worth more than Colton and Wood combined.