Post-Game Talk: Jets 6 - Red Wings 2

[jungles]

Sooo...can we talk about BBQ ribs again? It's getting saucy in here.

 

[buggs]

Sorry I missed this game but family in town so...

KFC is on an absolute tear and the new defensive streak becoming more consistent is a thing of beauty. Next contract will be quite pricey. He'll be 29 when it kicks in.

Pionk too is having a beauty of a year, but that guy makes me nervous. If he was consistently like this then I wouldn't be. Unreal player against the Oilers in the playoffs that one year, but much of the rest of the time since coming over in the Trouba trade has been less than enthralling. So which version do you get on a next contract?

KFC no brainer and likely well over $10M but I think I'd be inclined to trade Pionk. I doubt that's how the Jets go about the latter though.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Great bounce back game from Pionk, good to see that.

Top line scoring at 5v5 was good to see.

Keep banking these points early.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

I’m old enough to remember the big red machine that was the Detroit Red Wings. And I remember it was them that sent the Jets 1.0 off to Phoenix by humbling them in the playoffs.

Lidstrom, Hasek, Yzerman, Fedorov, Shanahan, Chelios, Konstantinov, Larianov - an embarrassment of riches. And Scotty Bowman behind the bench.

I enjoy it when we beat the Red Wings probably more than any other team.

 

[KingBogo]

I think when we lose there is a type of poster that needs to vent and that is volume based therapy. Often they need 5 or 6 posts to get it off their chest, then of course try to decide who needs to be traded, then how to change the lines. Hard to get all that done in one post. Also some posters only use the sight to complain after losses. Last season I asked a poster why he only showed up after losses and he said in a very honest fashion well when we win I’m happy so there is nothing to talk about (paraphrasing). Same thing as Horror movie’s, why people pay good money to be scared/shocked is beyond my comprehension but it is a very real desire.

When we win it does attract a few posters who love to wallow in joy but not as many as those who need to vent when they are mad. Also there are always things to correct and injustices even after wins but the old jalopy needs less fixing (when was the last time I used that word, or more importantly when did I turn into my grampa).


Either way I hope to catch some of the game today or tonight but I have to decorate for Halloween and get the daughter out. She’s in grade 7 so we are almost done. Where did that time go.

GJG

Well said PS. I am most definitely one of those posters who want to wallow in joy after a win. I like coming on here and having fun, like you were sitting in a bar with a couple buddies enjoying a win. Of course I'm an extremely optimistic person by nature. If we lose but it was a close hard fought game I will poke my head in after a game to see how balanced things are and I might join in if there is somewhere close to a split with those who need to vent. If we lose badly, I head for the hills and don't dare show up until the next morning once the counter balance has a chance to start wading in.

 

[Jet]

What do i want?

It would be great for the guys who shit on players when they play poorly to come into a PGT to praise players after they play well

85% of PGTs after losses is posters saying "See? I'm smarter than the coach. If he did things my way, this wouldn't have happened"

But they somehow skip PGTs where the results make their opinion look wrong (or in the case of the "we need a top line to win it's matchups in order to win consistently" crowd, outright ridiculous) as the wins pile up

I honestly think that there are posters on here who hope we lose games while Schief and Connor play together just so that they can look "right". They're the ones who are absent in here after we win

Yeah, it really grates my gears as well. So quick to jump on the hated, won't say a thing about the golden boys, and won't give credit where credit is due.

Neal Pionk is the second leading scorer amongst defensemen in the league, and whilst people have been somewhat complimentary, it's been pretty muted but whoa boy when he had an off game the pitchforks were out. The amount of criticism for him vs. Snerg who had a worse game than him was a prime example.

Then there's Stanley, who pretty much never gets a positive comment for anything but loads of innocuous digs regardless of how he plays.

I'm all for opining about a player positive or negative - that's why we're here, but just looking for opportunities to shit on players just because you don't like them is so boring.

 

[Flair Hay]

It's wild to me that we have the 2nd and third leading defensemen scorers in the nhl and theyre on 2 different pairs.

A great PP is a defenseman's best friend for putting up numbers.

And these guys are both a key part of a unit where all 5 players are executing well!

 

[Jet]

Well said PS. I am most definitely one of those posters who want to wallow in joy after a win. I like coming on here and having fun, like you were sitting in a bar with a couple buddies enjoying a win. Of course I'm an extremely optimistic person by nature. If we lose but it was a close hard fought game I will poke my head in after a game to see how balanced things are and I might join in if there is somewhere close to a split with those who need to vent. If we lose badly, I head for the hills and don't dare show up until the next morning once the counter balance has a chance to start wading in.

Yeah if we're struggling I leave the GDT immediately. I don't need that in my life haha

 

[Jet]

A great PP is a defenseman's best friend for putting up numbers.

And these guys are both a key part of a unit where all 5 players are executing well!

It's crazy that Pionk is putting up those numbers on pp2 and with 4 minutes less a night than Jomo.

He still gets a bit lost in his zone sometimes, but he's an offensive defenseman and unless you're a unicorn that's usually the trade off.

That's where good Samberg comes in. He can help insulate against that a bit and allow us to maximize the benefit of Pionks production

 

[Flair Hay]

What do i want?

It would be great for the guys who shit on players when they play poorly to come into a PGT to praise players after they play well

85% of PGTs after losses is posters saying "See? I'm smarter than the coach. If he did things my way, this wouldn't have happened"

But they somehow skip PGTs where the results make their opinion look wrong (or in the case of the "we need a top line to win it's matchups in order to win consistently" crowd, outright ridiculous) as the wins pile up

I honestly think that there are posters on here who hope we lose games while Schief and Connor play together just so that they can look "right". They're the ones who are absent in here after we win

I think the smartest posters we have look at these things holistically. Basing opinions of players play off seasons and not game-by-game. One game doesn't change anyone's mind. But 20 games or half a season definitely will.

Love that Pionk is putting up huge numbers and has been good most games. Doesn't move the needle for me a lot for what to do with him the next 5 years. Yet.

Love that Connor is playing well and showing more effort defensively and part of a great PK. On top of leading the charge scoring for the best PP in the league 10 games in. When that's been maintained for 20 games or half a season I will absolutely look at him in a new light.

And nothing much has changed with Ehlers as he is doing what most thought he can do with full time top PP unit. The 5v5 stuff didn't change much from one game, but it's always nice to see our top line dominate.

This team is so similar in personnel and coaching system it really does feel to me like a continuation of last year. Every year is a new year, but I don't think of it that way when evaluating guys and forming an opinion. In my mind it's almost like game 98 of 2023-25

Looking like maybe the coaching transition to Arniel may be the right move at the right time. We can't keep up our torrid pace but if we keep getting better we are in for an amazing season.

 

[Flair Hay]

It's crazy that Pionk is putting up those numbers on pp2 and with 4 minutes less a night than Jomo.

He still gets a bit lost in his zone sometimes, but he's an offensive defenseman and unless you're a unicorn that's usually the trade off.

That's where good Samberg comes in. He can help insulate against that a bit and allow us to maximize the benefit of Pionks production

They seem like a good match stylistically. Taking on the best of the best in the NHL is new for Samberg and can take years to gain the experience necessary to not look silly from time to time. He is well on his way. Hopefully Neal can keep up the great play because he does have that edge that comes out in the playoffs when it matters most.

 

[Jet]

They seem like a good match stylistically. Taking on the best of the best in the NHL is new for Samberg and can take years to gain the experience necessary to not look silly from time to time. He is well on his way. Hopefully Neal can keep up the great play because he does have that edge that comes out in the playoffs when it matters most.

I really wish they would have put them together last year but with Dillon here it would have been difficult

 

[SensibleGuy]

At least you're moving the goalposts now to Stanley Cups instead of winning games. But how many teams who DO have top lines that always win their matchups have NOT won the cup?

We finished 4th overall last season and are 1st overall at 9-1 with the team deploying the top line as it has. That's a big sample size. At what point is it enough to prove that someone might be wrong about their opinion? LOTS (or in the case of this season, ALL) of teams who deploy their lines the way these guys would like are looking up at us in the standings

I have nothing against nerds or analytics. I do have an opinion of people that have never laced up a pair of skates in their lives thinking that they know more than people who have been in and around the sport their entire lives just because they look at spreadsheets

FOr me, what I find interesting to look at is for instance, if we take teams that have had deep runs in the post-season over the past decade and we look at the top line's analytics, how do they compare with the analytics of our top line over the past few seasons? (talking hypotheticals here...nothing specific) That sort of thing seems to me to offer some pretty useful information. I have lots of headroom for that sort of thing and I value the input of people like Garret who spend their time focusing on it. I mean regular season success is a lot of fun, but if one of those teams that is currently looking up at us in the standings is bouncing us in round 1 later this season what's the point really? All I'm saying is I don't think there's anything wrong with digging into things and looking for ways to improve even if we're winning lots of games. Obviously, we're talking here about improving odds by small margins. Nothing is going to give us a 20% bump - it's only ever going to be an improvement from 50.85 to 51.35%...a "worse" team always has a pretty good shot at beating a "better" team - especially in a sport like hockey were random variance plays such a huge role.

 

[Gordon112358]

Volare on pace for 66 points!!!!!!!!!!!

Connor on pace for 139

 

[Huffer]

Nice bounce back after the loss. Really nice to see them win the 5 on 5 battle.

Thought they had some jump to start the game which is nice to see.

 

[bustamente]

They have to continue this play against the Blue Jackets who surprisingly are no picnic or and easy out.

 

[scelaton]

I think the smartest posters we have look at these things holistically. Basing opinions of players play off seasons and not game-by-game. One game doesn't change anyone's mind. But 20 games or half a season definitely will.

Love that Pionk is putting up huge numbers and has been good most games. Doesn't move the needle for me a lot for what to do with him the next 5 years. Yet.

Love that Connor is playing well and showing more effort defensively and part of a great PK. On top of leading the charge scoring for the best PP in the league 10 games in. When that's been maintained for 20 games or half a season I will absolutely look at him in a new light.

And nothing much has changed with Ehlers as he is doing what most thought he can do with full time top PP unit. The 5v5 stuff didn't change much from one game, but it's always nice to see our top line dominate.

This team is so similar in personnel and coaching system it really does feel to me like a continuation of last year. Every year is a new year, but I don't think of it that way when evaluating guys and forming an opinion. In my mind it's almost like game 98 of 2023-25

Looking like maybe the coaching transition to Arniel may be the right move at the right time. We can't keep up our torrid pace but if we keep getting better we are in for an amazing season.

Nice post. I didn't see all of the game last night, just enough to be very impressed with the players and the system Arniel has them playing.

Re the discussion about short PGTs after a win--I just poured myself a cup of coffee and looked at the front page of the paper. The headlines are all about human smuggling, sexual assault and the toxic politics south of the border. A token picture about Halloween is all the good news. Turning to the editorial and opinion section, we have public policy falling "woefully short", homelessness, war....you get the picture.

People like to talk about what is wrong in the world, criticize bad policy and propose solutions--that is human nature. Even on hockey boards.

I'm happy to read any thoughtful, respectful post, positive or negative. Having been around here for more than a decade I have noticed two trends worth mentioning. One is that many posters have become more "critical" as their knowledge of the game (and analytics) has increased. That is a good thing and, if constructive, should be commended. The other phenomenon is that a number of my favourite posters have left the board, some driven away by those intolerant of their opinions and, all too often, by personal attacks. That is a shame.

My one intolerance is intolerance itself and there is still plenty of it around, wherever you look.

 

[Cypruss]

Some idiot predicted 3-2 Wings…. Oh wait hat was me! Doh

Jets beat the Wings and Refs!

Good bounce back game from the fake top 4 duo!

Perfetti ever gonna score again!

KHL Names was dressed!

I predicted 7-2 Jets. Was getting pissy the last 5 minutes when the Jets were playing keep away, quadruple passing and not really just taking the high danger shot without 6 elite low percentage passes first. Just shoot and score one more I kept yelling. Oh well, I was close but no cigar.

 

[jokesondee]

Or HFHabs...

"We can get him for nothing"...

Theres likely a Connor for Dvorak+Anderson thread already up.

 

[Buffdog]

FOr me, what I find interesting to look at is for instance, if we take teams that have had deep runs in the post-season over the past decade and we look at the top line's analytics, how do they compare with the analytics of our top line over the past few seasons? (talking hypotheticals here...nothing specific) That sort of thing seems to me to offer some pretty useful information. I have lots of headroom for that sort of thing and I value the input of people like Garret who spend their time focusing on it. I mean regular season success is a lot of fun, but if one of those teams that is currently looking up at us in the standings is bouncing us in round 1 later this season what's the point really? All I'm saying is I don't think there's anything wrong wit digging into things and looking for ways to improve even if we're winning lots of games. Obviously, we're talking here about improving odds by small margins. Nothing is going to give us a 20% bump - it's only ever going to be an improvement from 50.85 to 51.35%...a "worse" team always has a pretty good shot at beating a "better" team - especially in a sport like hockey were random variance plays such a huge role.

Not much to disagree with here.

The only caveat that I'd point out is that when you look at the teams that made deep runs in the playoffs who had top lines that won their match ups, you have to look at who were on those lines

Last season the cup finalists had Barkov and Tkachuk and the Oilers had... well, you know

We have an aging Schief, Connor and ehlers. There is no way that we can construct a top line that will beat the best teams' top lines

Instead, Chevy has built a team with good depth up front, an elite checking line that does beat other teams best lines consistently and all-world goaltending

In other words, we don't have the option of winning like other teams do. So we have another model. And playoffs aside (sample size, right?), it looks like it might be another way of skinning the proverbial cat

At what point are people willing to say "there may be a different way of doing this?"

None of that even takes into consideration that maybe Schief only re-signed so he could play with Connor and/or Ehlers is happier at 15 minutes a night and would rather not play more minutes on the top line (as he mentionned in his interview last week)

I just think it's beyond time for people to accept it/get over it and drop the discussion

 

[Howard Chuck]

I came in here today to bask in the glory of a dominant win and instead some have found some other negativity to inject since the game went so well. Human nature I guess.

KC is a pleasure to watch this year. He was great other years, but is on a whole new level now.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Not much to disagree with here.

The only caveat that I'd point out is that when you look at the teams that made deep runs in the playoffs who had top lines that won their match ups, you have to look at who were on those lines

Last season the cup finalists had Barkov and Tkachuk and the Oilers had... well, you know

We have an aging Schief, Connor and ehlers. There is no way that we can construct a top line that will beat the best teams' top lines

Instead, Chevy has built a team with good depth up front, an elite checking line that does beat other teams best lines consistently and all-world goaltending

In other words, we don't have the option of winning like other teams do. So we have another model. And playoffs aside (sample size, right?), it looks like it might be another way of skinning the proverbial cat

At what point are people willing to say "there may be a different way of doing this?"

None of that even takes into consideration that maybe Schief only re-signed so he could play with Connor and/or Ehlers is happier at 15 minutes a night and would rather not play more minutes on the top line (as he mentionned in his interview last week)

I just think it's beyond time for people to accept it/get over it and drop the discussion

So what u are saying is kc needs more support? As the guy is a superstar.

 

[WolfgangPuck]

9-1
I can get used to this
Not often we get spoiled
Keep it up Jets !

 

[surixon]

Missed this one, but glad to see we got back into the win column. Now for another one tomorrow night.

 

[Buffdog]

So what u are saying is kc needs more support? As the guy is a superstar.

I love Connor but realistically, he's an elite sniper who (in the past) has been iffy in his own zone

Schief is also offensively elite, but had been known to cheat for offense, slack off on defense and extend shifts. And he's getting older

Those are the reasons those two routinely "lose" their matchups. What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter, because of how the rest of the team is constructed

There's nothing wrong with being objective about our players