Post-Game Talk: Jets 4 - Islanders 3, Streaking to the break

[Buffdog]

I think it's fair to ask as it helps understand why the other person things that way.

Honestly I wasn't going to until it was suggested that the converse opinion to theirs was somehow laughable.

Exactly. Our experiences help form our views and opinions

If someone's opinion differes from mine, asking them about how it was formed is the easiest way to come to an understanding about why they hold it

If someone with more experience at higher levels of the gale asked me about MY experiences, I wouldn't get all pissy. If anything, I'd try to learn something new from them to broaden my knowledge base.

The problem is that in today's world, people are more worried about appearing "right" than realizing that maybe they aren't, and learning something

 

[Gil Fisher]

It's moments like this that I'm tempted to see who I've put on ignore.

 

[robertocarlos]

If there is no "parity", how is it that the team in the smallest market in the league is on top of the standings? Sorry, not sorry, but that comment doesn't make too much sense...

There are 8 teams that have missed the playoffs for the last 5 years.

 

[johnnyonthspot]

I'm not saying the lines always look the same. Again it's risk/reward and talent level. So yes, a line with Gus and Iafallo will dump the puck in more. But all lines dump the puck in and they will all have similar expectations when that happens. All lines will have similar responsibilities without the puck. Lambert can carry the puck on his stick and maintain possession if that option is open to him. So to say that it's an awful spot for Lambert to play on the 4th line with AI and Gus just isn't true. He will get to work on parts of the game he needs to work on. The game isn't that different. Expectations are still the same. He is getting more experience and learning to be better.

I understand your point that he can play the 4th line and get experience but my comment was based on that past few games with Ford in the lineup vs the Isle's game with Lambert in it. I think it was not broke so why mess with it . I am not doubting his skill but in general the 4th and 3rd line players are grinders and not known for their puck carrying skills. There is no doubt he has speed to burn and is talented but I was surprised Arniel used him in that role last game.

 

[voyageur]

I understand your point that he can play the 4th line and get experience but my comment was based on that past few games with Ford in the lineup vs the Isle's game with Lambert in it. I think it was not broke so why mess with it . I am not doubting his skill but in general the 4th and 3rd line players are grinders and not known for their puck carrying skills. There is no doubt he has speed to burn and is talented but I was surprised Arniel used him in that role last game.

Seems to have worked. 2 goals for Ford, 3 assists for Lambert. For the prospects, playing in the NHL, practicing in the NHL teaches them how to play quicker.

Getting Lambert a game in and a road trip with the team was important before his demotion. Might not be back until the end of the Moose season.

I wonder if the Jets give Josh a break after the 4 Nations and give Heinola a couple of games.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

In the words of Scooby-Doo "Ruh ohhh" the Jets have me on the Jet plane as well. I hope we are not in for playoff heartbreak. I am also trying to savour this season, which is becoming more special and surreal by the game.

Enjoy it by the game because the season ends in heartbreak for every team but one.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yea the drafting piece is not easy at all but very necessary. It is literally the life blood of success in the Winnipeg market. We drafted so dam well from 2011-2016 that it set up our organization for a decade of lower drafting. Most good centers (#1’s) are drafted in the first round in the top 10-12 picks. There are always outliers like Aho, Point, Bergeron but for the most part you have to hit on a top 10 1st round pick.

Now second line centers are a bit different. One would hope you can hit on one of those at least once every 10 draft classes.

I think drafting needs to blend BPA and position. We just haven't drafted enough Cs in the first rd to have hit on one. I count 5 Cs in 23 after we took Barlow still in the 1st rd who are still showing 2C potential well into their D+2 seasons. One of them looks like very high probability of hitting at the 2C level.

Drafting for need tends to be futile because of the time lag between the draft and the player being NHL ready. But drafting for position is another story. Value C over W, always. A wing should need to be clearly better than the Cs available to get picked. After the 1st rd, value D over W the same way. The guys drafted at C who don't win C jobs play W in the NHL.

If there is no "parity", how is it that the team in the smallest market in the league is on top of the standings? Sorry, not sorry, but that comment doesn't make too much sense...

The parity stands out when bottom 5 teams beat top 5 teams. Obviously they don't win as often as they lose, but any team can beat any other team on any given day. That's parity.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think you are bang on and its been my experience as well.

I'll expand on this by saying i think that Arniel wants all 4 lines doing the same thing without the puck. With the puck is a different story.

Even with the puck it is basically the same except that top6/9 are given more leeway along with higher expectations of production.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I was wondering the exact same thing, but I wasn't going to ask lol

When someone's opinion goes against everything I've experienced in 44 years being around the sport, my first inclination is to ask them about their experience

But I learned in another thread that even asking is verboten

You can ask a person to explain the basis for their opinion without being specific in your question. That tends to suggest their is only 1 valid basis.

 

[johnnyonthspot]

Enjoy it by the game because the season ends in heartbreak for every team but one.

I do not expect a cup win but winning a couple rounds would be nice. I have my parachute ready to jump from the Jet plane if there is turbulence( and hit my wagon to future cup Winners the Austonmapleleafs

 

[johnnyonthspot]

Seems to have worked. 2 goals for Ford, 3 assists for Lambert. For the prospects, playing in the NHL, practicing in the NHL teaches them how to play quicker.

Getting Lambert a game in and a road trip with the team was important before his demotion. Might not be back until the end of the Moose season.

I wonder if the Jets give Josh a break after the 4 Nations and give Heinola a couple of games.

Lambert has 1 assist.
Ford 1 goal.
I still think he looked out of place on the 4th line vs Ford.

No chance Jmo gets a rest until a playoff spot is locked up. Heinola is definitely not in.thr Jets future plans.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I do not expect a cup win but winning a couple rounds would be nice. I have my parachute ready to jump from the Jet plane if there is turbulence( and hit my wagon to future cup Winners the Austonmapleleafs

The thing is that if Jets make the WCF, or the SCF and lose their last game, their will be heartbreak just as much as if they lose their last game in the 1st or 2nd rd. There is additional heartbreak if they get blown out in a series but as long as they put up a good fight the heartbreak will be pretty much the same no matter when they lose that last game.

 

[voyageur]

Lambert has 1 assist.
Ford 1 goal.
I still think he looked out of place on the 4th line vs Ford.

No chance Jmo gets a rest until a playoff spot is locked up. Heinola is definitely not in.thr Jets future plans.

I was talking about the 2nd game back on the Moose. 1st game they registered 12 shots combined, so maybe that cup of coffee is the spark they need to find their game, because those 2 prospects are the only 2 forwards on the Moose who look to be improving towards Jets right now. Can't emphasize enough how practicing at higher level pushes players to a higher level. And that begs the question of coaching on the Moose. Maybe they really miss Nolan Baumgartner as an assistant. I'd still like to see Lambert on Kupari's wing again, being able skate into odd man rushes.

I don't know what the Jets plans are for Heinola, right now it's been to establish a cushion with more veteran players, but if the kid was going to play it would be in the case of Morrissey not being in the lineup. So maybe it's worth a look. I don't know if Josh has the 82 game bonus though.

 

[johnnyonthspot]

The thing is that if Jets make the WCF, or the SCF and lose their last game, their will be heartbreak just as much as if they lose their last game in the 1st or 2nd rd. There is additional heartbreak if they get blown out in a series but as long as they put up a good fight the heartbreak will be pretty much the same no matter when they lose that last game.

I think if they lose in the first round that fans will be angry or some will say "I told you so"
The further they go in the playoffs, imo, the bigger the heartbreak when they lose especially if it is a game 7 situation in a WCF or SCF

 

[johnnyonthspot]

I was talking about the 2nd game back on the Moose. 1st game they registered 12 shots combined, so maybe that cup of coffee is the spark they need to find their game, because those 2 prospects are the only 2 forwards on the Moose who look to be improving towards Jets right now. Can't emphasize enough how practicing at higher level pushes players to a higher level. And that begs the question of coaching on the Moose. Maybe they really miss Nolan Baumgartner as an assistant. I'd still like to see Lambert on Kupari's wing again, being able skate into odd man rushes.

I don't know what the Jets plans are for Heinola, right now it's been to establish a cushion with more veteran players, but if the kid was going to play it would be in the case of Morrissey not being in the lineup. So maybe it's worth a look. I don't know if Josh has the 82 game bonus though.

I did not know you were talking about the Moose and I am sure it gives them confidence and knowledge having played at a higher level

If I am Heinola ; I would ask for a trade. The Jets have no faith in him..

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think if they lose in the first round that fans will be angry or some will say "I told you so"
The further they go in the playoffs, imo, the bigger the heartbreak when they lose especially if it is a game 7 situation in a WCF or SCF

Losing earlier will affect ticket sales. But, yeah, in a way, losing later hurts even more.

 

[voyageur]

I did not know you were talking about the Moose and I am sure it gives them confidence and knowledge having played at a higher level

If I am Heinola ; I would ask for a trade. The Jets have no faith in him..

I am still not sure if you don't bring him along like they did Stanley. He's signed for next year, and maybe if he starts on time, not missing TC he could move ahead on the depth chart. Definitely could surpass Fleury. But he'd have to be better in his own end, which is conceivable as I think he's a lot less erratic than Fleury, just not as good of a shot blocker or PKer. But the Jets have room to carry both again, if they don't acquire more than a rental on defense at the deadline. I'm not sure Coghlan isn't the best depth option on the right side though. If Ville made it on the right side here, I'm thinking he can 50/50 with Miller next season, maybe get some secondary PP time. That would be more games than Stanley got at that point in his career because he's more versatile.

All depends on what kind of player Chevy adds at the deadline, but I hope Heinola likes being a part of a winning team. And is committed for the 2 years.

 

[surixon]

I am still not sure if you don't bring him along like they did Stanley. He's signed for next year, and maybe if he starts on time, not missing TC he could move ahead on the depth chart. Definitely could surpass Fleury. But he'd have to be better in his own end, which is conceivable as I think he's a lot less erratic than Fleury, just not as good of a shot blocker or PKer. But the Jets have room to carry both again, if they don't acquire more than a rental on defense at the deadline. I'm not sure Coghlan isn't the best depth option on the right side though. If Ville made it on the right side here, I'm thinking he can 50/50 with Miller next season, maybe get some secondary PP time. That would be more games than Stanley got at that point in his career because he's more versatile.

All depends on what kind of player Chevy adds at the deadline, but I hope Heinola likes being a part of a winning team. And is committed for the 2 years.

Hard to bring him along like Logan when there isn't a spot to bring him along in.

Logan will once again be getting the lions share of the bottom pairing LD minutes as that is what the team has wanted for the last number of years.

We have JoMo and Snerg inked in ahead of him at LD.

Unless the plan is to fully convert him to RD and have him steal Miller's spot I don't see an opportunity for him. Also Salomonsson may have the inside track on RD for any openings.

 

[voyageur]

Hard to bring him along like Logan when there isn't a spot to bring him along in.

Logan will once again be getting the lions share of the bottom pairing LD minutes as that is what the team has wanted for the last number of years.

We have JoMo and Snerg inked in ahead of him at LD.

Unless the plan is to fully convert him to RD and have him steal Miller's spot I don't see an opportunity for him. Also Salomonsson may have the inside track on RD for any openings.

Big Stan sat in the PB for the greater part of 2 years while Dillon played regular top 4. This year has been his chance to take that spot. Not sure if he has taken it to the level management is happy with. He's the big guy though, that's been pretty clear. Maybe playoffs looks different.

Salomonsson will be interesting. I think he has to take a spot to get in there. Otherwise he's playing big minutes on the Moose again, and the best kind of depth to have, ELC depth, waiver exempt.

I don't see Heinola getting the 3LD spot just because it's the PK responsibility that Ville hasn't been entrusted with at the NHL level.

I'd like to keep the player, hoping he has a breakout season, if he can stay healthy. But I understand the logic in moving him too. Once Salomonsson is ready I think Ville's window has closed. Unless they become a pairing, which seems unlikely, but not impossible.

 

[ps241]

I think drafting needs to blend BPA and position. We just haven't drafted enough Cs in the first rd to have hit on one. I count 5 Cs in 23 after we took Barlow still in the 1st rd who are still showing 2C potential well into their D+2 seasons. One of them looks like very high probability of hitting at the 2C level.

Drafting for need tends to be futile because of the time lag between the draft and the player being NHL ready. But drafting for position is another story. Value C over W, always. A wing should need to be clearly better than the Cs available to get picked. After the 1st rd, value D over W the same way. The guys drafted at C who don't win C jobs play W in the NHL.



The parity stands out when bottom 5 teams beat top 5 teams. Obviously they don't win as often as they lose, but any team can beat any other team on any given day. That's parity.

The other thing that is hard to gauge is will the prospect play centre at the NHL level eventually. I look at a kid like Yager and he seems like he is a centre come hell or high water. He may not make the NHL but if he does it will be as a centre. Other kids like Perfetti, Lucius, McGroaty were listed as centre/winger but they are all shaping up to be wingers now it seems.