Post-Game Talk: Jets 4 - Islanders 3, Streaking to the break

[TS Quint]

Exactly. That's the problem

I remember being on a team in Junior where the coach looked at the 4th line on the bench before he sent them out and said "just don't f*** up" (they scored, which is why I remember it lol)

That's the job description of a 4th line player. If you do f*** up, you're out of the line up and someone who won't f*** up is brought in. That's not the same as a top 6 guy. They can f*** up and get away with it

It's a double standard and it may not be fair, but it is what it is. Gus isn't out there focusing on generating offense. He's worried about positioning and puck management

Schief is focused on generating offense in addition (hopefully) to puck management and positioning.

This sounds like what i meant by risk vs reward. I think you are trying to say that you agree with me. I'll take it.

 

[raideralex99]

I know a lot of you call down Sawyer but I don't have a problem with him actually his points imo are very interesting and right on at times.
The story/conversation he had with Gus was very interesting. In case you missed it he asked Gus why is this team better than last year's team when you lost Dillon, Monahan and Toffoli?
He said management believes in its drafted players and gives them the opportunity to play which got me thinking ... will the Jets make a big splash at TDL or maybe just make a minor trade for depth incase of injuries.
The team chemistry is so good that it would be a bummer to bring someone in and rock the boat.

 

[Buffdog]

This sounds like what i meant by risk vs reward. I think you are trying to say that you agree with me. I'll take it.

Just for fun next game, notice how many times the 4th line carries the puck into the O zone vs chip and chase.. and same with the top 2 lines. I think you'll notice a difference, and that's not accidental (as an example of how they're coached to do things a little differently)

You're also likely to se more successful uncontrolled zone exits from.thebbottom six but I'm.notnpositive about that

 

[DRW204]

I know a lot of you call down Sawyer but I don't have a problem with him actually his points imo are very interesting and right on at times.
The story/conversation he had with Gus was very interesting. In case you missed it he asked Gus why is this team better than last year's team when you lost Dillon, Monahan and Toffoli?
He said management believes in its drafted players and gives them the opportunity to play which got me thinking ... will the Jets make a big splash at TDL or maybe just make a minor trade for depth incase of injuries.
The team chemistry is so good that it would be a bummer to bring someone in and rock the boat.

the Jets were still a v good team w/o monahan and toffoli. helle is playing at an even higher level than last season, and inputting ehlers + replacing Lauer with a competent PP coach has done wonders. Friedman recently mentioned the team was v pissed about their performance vs COL, and have been using that as fuel and motivation for this season.

i think they still make a moderate-to-high splash at the TDL. every PO year they've added, and better the season = usually a higher collective of prices paid.

i recall some comments around how the Jets players sometimes push for additions, and Chevy feels the need rewarding them w/ additions following their play YTD. I am anticipating them still adding a solid piece.

 

[Hobble]

the Jets were still a v good team w/o monahan and toffoli. helle is playing at an even higher level than last season, and inputting ehlers + replacing Lauer with a competent PP coach has done wonders. Friedman recently mentioned the team was v pissed about their performance vs COL, and have been using that as fuel and motivation for this season.

i think they still make a moderate-to-high splash at the TDL. every PO year they've added, and better the season = usually a higher collective of prices paid.

i recall some comments around how the Jets players sometimes push for additions, and Chevy feels the need rewarding them w/ additions following their play YTD. I am anticipating them still adding a solid piece.

#FuelledByPiss

 

[wasup]

I personally hope they don,t do squat . I look longer term and don,t want us to constantly unload out high picks in "hopes" of bringing in a player that 'might" help . Only one team wins the cup and the other 15 just weaken down their prospect pool .

 

[BoneDocUK]

Patience with Koal is starting to pay dividends, one of his strengths has been his vision and passing but that pass to Nik last night was something

Absolute stunner of a pass. Nice to see Nik offering some kudos on the bench.

Vilardi's goal and KFC's pass also spectacular.

Only saw the highlights so can't comment on the game overall. Lovely to see the team roll on and looking forward to a quick start after the break.

Helly might need a rest in the runup. Hoping that Scott is the man to make it happen.

Enjoy the break folks!

 

[gojetsgo]

I personally hope they don,t do squat . I look longer term and don,t want us to constantly unload out high picks in "hopes" of bringing in a player that 'might" help . Only one team wins the cup and the other 15 just weaken down their prospect pool .

but you are doing the same thing by keeping that pick, late picks are 50/50 to even make the nhl and that doesn't even take in account the quality of player they would be, this is also suppose to be a very weak draft as well

 

[TS Quint]

Just for fun next game, notice how many times the 4th line carries the puck into the O zone vs chip and chase.. and same with the top 2 lines. I think you'll notice a difference, and that's not accidental (as an example of how they're coached to do things a little differently)

You're also likely to se more successful uncontrolled zone exits from.thebbottom six but I'm.notnpositive about that

The 4th line dumping the puck in more than the 1st isn't a surprise or something the most general fan isn't aware of. Glad you have learned that though.

That's not a change in system or how they play, where they are expected to be etc. Yes Gus will chip it in more than Scheifele because Scheifele has the skills to avoid being checked more often than Gus. But either way when any player hits a wall of defenders they chip it in. Turnovers are still bad on any line. Nothing changes. If Lambert has the skills to carry the puck over the blueline and retain possession on his stick rather than dump it in then he is more than welcome to.

That is the conversation I was having. It's not a position for Lambert to fail. It's not a fundamentally different way to play the game than any other line, the expectations in general are the same. Yes he might have to dump and chase at a higher rate. But everyone has to dump and chase at some point. Playing with Gus and AI isn't a bad thing. It's still a spot to for him to learn what is expected in the NHL.

 

[Buffdog]

The 4th line dumping the puck in more than the 1st isn't a surprise or something the most general fan isn't aware of. Glad you have learned that though.

That's not a change in system or how they play, where they are expected to be etc. Yes Gus will chip it in more than Scheifele because Scheifele has the skills to avoid being checked more often than Gus. But either way when any player hits a wall of defenders they chip it in. Turnovers are still bad on any line. Nothing changes. If Lambert has the skills to carry the puck over the blueline and retain possession on his stick rather than dump it in then he is more than welcome to.

That is the conversation I was having. It's not a position for Lambert to fail. It's not a fundamentally different way to play the game than any other line, the expectations in general are the same. Yes he might have to dump and chase at a higher rate. But everyone has to dump and chase at some point. Playing with Gus and AI isn't a bad thing. It's still a spot to for him to learn what is expected in the NHL.

I think you're wrong, and the 4th line has been instructed to keep it simple. It's the way it's been on every team I've played on and coached. They've always been told that a win for them is prolonged O zone shifts, which isn't the same as for the top lines.

Maybe your experience has been different, who knows. I'd be open to hearing about it if that's the case

 

[voyageur]

the fwds were great last night but thought wasn't the best performance from the d group.... samberg-pionk in particular were a bit rough.

Jets are 8-0 w/o lowry.

I thought Nik had a bit of a rough game. I mean nice goal but he stayed on the perimeter a lot. Some careless puck management. Getting walked to the front of the net by Boqvist stood out defensively. Appleton was also out of position on a lot board battles I thought. So his side got worked on.

Defense got checked. As a lot of the play turned up in my end, 6 of the 7 goals, I saw that Stanley's corner was attacked. Another thing that stood out to me was Isles forwards getting between the defense on the blue line. Not with anything coming of it, but an attack point, maybe predicated on the Jets having a smaller, not overly physical defense.

 

[ps241]

but you are doing the same thing by keeping that pick, late picks are 50/50 to even make the nhl and that doesn't even take in account the quality of player they would be, this is also suppose to be a very weak draft as well

Rentals are a waist. Use those same picks for a real hockey trades to plug holes permanently not for 5 games in the spring.

Exhibit A:

On October 12th 2020 Devon Toews was traded to the Colorado Avalanche by the New York Islanders on Monday for a second-round pick in the 2021 and 2022 NHL Draft.

 

[Gm0ney]

I’d like to know which of Vilardi’s goals didn’t register as a high danger chance. Naturalstattrick has them at 1-1 in the 2nd period…

It's why I have a hard time taking some of these metrics that seriously.

Scoring chances and their danger levels are defined in NaturalStatTrick's glossary. Natural Stat Trick - Glossary

His 2nd goal was in that central red area in the high slot and would've been assigned 2 points (medium danger). It wasn't a rush or rebound chance, so it ends up just being a MDCF not a HDCF.

 

[TS Quint]

I know a lot of you call down Sawyer but I don't have a problem with him actually his points imo are very interesting and right on at times.
The story/conversation he had with Gus was very interesting. In case you missed it he asked Gus why is this team better than last year's team when you lost Dillon, Monahan and Toffoli?
He said management believes in its drafted players and gives them the opportunity to play which got me thinking ... will the Jets make a big splash at TDL or maybe just make a minor trade for depth incase of injuries.
The team chemistry is so good that it would be a bummer to bring someone in and rock the boat.

I don't mind Sawyer. He gets a little goofy with some of his sayings that I think (hope) he makes up on the spot. "It's like he's walking a dog with a yoyo". It's a little distracting.... are the yoyo and the dog two separate things or is this dog spinning like a yoyo on a string? What the heck is this picture he is trying to paint?

 

[TS Quint]

I think you're wrong, and the 4th line has been instructed to keep it simple. It's the way it's been on every team I've played on and coached. They've always been told that a win for them is prolonged O zone shifts, which isn't the same as for the top lines.

Maybe your experience has been different, who knows. I'd be open to hearing about it if that's the case

You're not disagreeing with me, you are disagreeing with the Jets coaches. And I don't think you are really disagreeing with me either, you're just being pedantic.

We are agreeing that the 4th line is going to dump it in more often. I also explained why that is. Which is why is so weird you are telling me to go watch for it "just for fun" or somehow this is a disagreement between us.

 

[Buffdog]

You're not disagreeing with me, you are disagreeing with the Jets coaches. And I don't think you are really disagreeing with me either, you're just being pedantic.

No, you're saying that the Jets coaches don't tell the players on different lines to play differently... or at least, that's what I seem to be hearing you say?

And how exactly do you know what the Jets coaches are saying?

 

[surixon]

Scoring chances and their danger levels are defined in NaturalStatTrick's glossary. Natural Stat Trick - Glossary

View attachment 974623

His 2nd goal was in that central red area in the high slot and would've been assigned 2 points (medium danger). It wasn't a rush or rebound chance, so it ends up just being a MDCF not a HDCF.

Which just highlights my issue with using location as the biggest predictor. It was high dangerous because it was off a pass with the goalie out of position and not able to make the save.

 

[TS Quint]

No, you're saying that the Jets coaches don't tell the players on different lines to play differently... or at least, that's what I seem to be hearing you say?

And how exactly do you know what the Jets coaches are saying?

Alright. I can't read for you.

 

[Buffdog]

Alright. I can't read for you.

Or for yourself, apparently

 

[Gm0ney]

Which just highlights my issue with using location as the biggest predictor. It was high dangerous because it was off a pass with the goalie out of position and not able to make the save.

xG tries to capture more context, but the models are only models. If they were perfect, then we wouldn't need to play the games. The value isn't in whether or not one particular shot attempt is categorized as high or medium danger, it's in the aggregate. They're not going perfectly capture every event...but they're going to capture more information than the eye test.

 

[Howard Chuck]

the Jets were still a v good team w/o monahan and toffoli. helle is playing at an even higher level than last season, and inputting ehlers + replacing Lauer with a competent PP coach has done wonders. Friedman recently mentioned the team was v pissed about their performance vs COL, and have been using that as fuel and motivation for this season.

i think they still make a moderate-to-high splash at the TDL. every PO year they've added, and better the season = usually a higher collective of prices paid.

i recall some comments around how the Jets players sometimes push for additions, and Chevy feels the need rewarding them w/ additions following their play YTD. I am anticipating them still adding a solid piece.

I think this team as it is could go very far in the playoffs (with Lowry back), but if Chevy could pull off a hockey trade (NOT rental) to make us better before the deadline well……

We have a lot of good prospects that could be part of a trade. I have no idea what this trade could be or who we would target.

 

[voyageur]

Which just highlights my issue with using location as the biggest predictor. It was high dangerous because it was off a pass with the goalie out of position and not able to make the save.

3 players on the wrong side of the puck.

 

[Jets 31]

I personally hope they don,t do squat . I look longer term and don,t want us to constantly unload out high picks in "hopes" of bringing in a player that 'might" help . Only one team wins the cup and the other 15 just weaken down their prospect pool .

Draft picks, every single one of them are all "i hope this draft pick turns out" i don't mind making a trade if Chevy thinks they will make the team better. Chevy always said at the beginning when we got the Jets back that he wouldn't trade picks when we weren't making the playoffs but when we did he would look to help the guys at the deadline. Some have worked very well some not but if Chevy did nothing every single year i don't think the players would like that very much.

 

[gojetsgo]

Rentals are a waist. Use those same picks for a real hockey trades to plug holes permanently not for 5 games in the spring.

Exhibit A:

On October 12th 2020 Devon Toews was traded to the Colorado Avalanche by the New York Islanders on Monday for a second-round pick in the 2021 and 2022 NHL Draft.

I'm sure the jets would much rather get somebody with term but those players are going to cost more then a late 1st and are rarely traded around now + majority of players with term will have trade protection which makes it even harder for us to require