Post-Game Talk: Jets 4 - Blues 2

[Thechozen1]

Buddy's gonna shatter into a million pieces on thursday because of this post

I know it’s tongue in cheek, but it 100% true. Except it will happen during game against the Kraken on March 8th after deadline has past.

 

[Gm0ney]

Boner seems to value offensive chemistry over defensive chemistry. In other words, if a line is scoring he rarely breaks them up but the blender will come out when the goals aren't going in. Maybe the fact that they have helle back there plays into that.

Also, for the people complaining the top line had a 22.73 xGF% last night, the Monahan line carried a 81.63, the lowry line a 68.35 and the Names line a 62.98.

You had 3 lines dominate in the "pretend stat of the day" and the team won yet some people are still fixated on that one gaddamn line. It really baffles me

Bones only seems to value offensive over defensive play on the 1st line. A line that gets a big chunk of minutes. Other lines seem to be held to a somewhat different standard.

And the recent powerplay chemistry seems due in large part to Line-2 Monahan playing the bumper.

And it's a legit concern when your top line isn't playing great and getting outscored at 5v5.

 

[Buffdog]

Bones only seems to value offensive over defensive play on the 1st line. A line that gets a big chunk of minutes. Other lines seem to be held to a somewhat different standard.

And the recent powerplay chemistry seems due in large part to Line-2 Monahan playing the bumper.

And it's a legit concern when your top line isn't playing great and getting outscored at 5v5.

Connor Schiefele Vilardi has actually outscored their opposition at 5v5

9GF 8GA 52.94GF%

 

[Gm0ney]

Connor Schiefele Vilardi has actually outscored their opposition at 5v5

9GF 8GA 52.94GF%

I thought we were talking about this 6 game stretch where the Jets have been winning, but the top line has not been playing well.

CSV played 28 minutes together before Connor's knee injury when they put up an 80% xGF and outscored their opponents 3-0.

Since Connor returned from injury, they've played 100 minutes together with an xGF of 25% and have been outscored 6-8.

Anyway, the Connor-Scheifele combo has a pretty consistent track record of being marginally outscored and solidly outchanced at 5v5.

Legit concern...

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

Imagine if the Jets losing streak had been slightly better.
Like 1 more win and 1 more OT loss.
We'd be really in the drivers seat for the division.

 

[bustamente]

I think it's time to rev up the Norrissey freight train, 11 points in 5 games and acting like a boss once again

 

[Buffdog]

I thought we were talking about this 6 game stretch where the Jets have been winning, but the top line has not been playing well.

CSV played 28 minutes together before Connor's knee injury when they put up an 80% xGF and outscored their opponents 3-0.

Since Connor returned from injury, they've played 100 minutes together with an xGF of 25% and have been outscored 6-8.

Anyway, the Connor-Scheifele combo has a pretty consistent track record of being marginally outscored and solidly outchanced at 5v5.

Legit concern...

I guess if we're looking for something to be concerned about right now, that would be something.

According to the last 100 minutes, they've given up 2 more goals than they've scored, which is one evey 50 minutes... based on 15 minutes a night at 5v5 for that line, they're getting g purscored by one goal roughly every three games

 

[Inanna]

Connor Schiefele Vilardi has actually outscored their opposition at 5v5

9GF 8GA 52.94GF%

You make a good point but don't overlook:

11FD 8DF 78.3% xAG 8.2 dAK 7.7 14.1%

And that just with the CSV line.

 

[Gm0ney]

I guess if we're looking for something to be concerned about right now, that would be something.

According to the last 100 minutes, they've given up 2 more goals than they've scored, which is one evey 50 minutes... based on 15 minutes a night at 5v5 for that line, they're getting g purscored by one goal roughly every three games

The GF-GA numbers are flattering the line. They're getting way out-everythinged (shots, shot attempts, chances, expected).

It's great the other lines are picking up some slack right now...but you'd ideally like you have your top line out there winning their matchups. I mean, I don't think you're going to go far in the playoffs if they don't.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Running the PP thru Vilardi instead of Scheif has helped but its Monahan consistently playing bumper that has changed things... you can see his awareness of the slot and his commitment to staying in it... now we just need that at 5v5

Can't it be both?

 

[robertocarlos]

Bettman took his Bombardier Challenger 350 jet home to EWR late this morning. It was like 1 am when he landed which means he had an 18 hour day. He needed to put that fire out.

 

[Stumbledore]

You make a good point but don't overlook:

11FD 8DF 78.3% xAG 8.2 dAK 7.7 14.1%

And that just with the CSV line.

That is just fu#king brilliant!

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

To win the Stanley Cup you need 4 good lines ... I don't ever recall a team winning the Cup with one good line just ask the Oilers or Leafs. Sure they can win you a series but you have to win 16 games and playing your top line 20+ mins/game ... they will run out of gas.
It is funny all these complains about Connor wanting to move him down to the second line when he has 3 straight game winning goals. Oh and Ehlers is scoring on the second line so whats the problem?
If Connor was a good defensive checker he would be on the third line. We all know Connor is not a power forward he is not going to win too many board battles his game is speed and good hands.
Here's a question who is the better goal scorer ... Connor or Ehlers?
Now name me one team that plays their number goal scorer on the second line?

There is no problem with Connor's goal scoring. But you are looking only at GF. Why can't he use his speed and good hands in the D zone? D zone play does not always have to be about nothing but mass and strength. It is frustrating to watch Connor not bother to skate to check a puck carrier in open ice. No board battle involved.

No one is suggesting Connor become a power forward. Just make an effort in the D zone.

 

[ecolad]

The GF-GA numbers are flattering the line. They're getting way out-everythinged (shots, shot attempts, chances, expected).

It's great the other lines are picking up some slack right now...but you'd ideally like you have your top line out there winning their matchups. I mean, I don't think you're going to go far in the playoffs if they don't.

Exactly. I do commend you for trying to put this whole subject in some appropriate context but it seems to be mission impossible.

Hasn`t been talked about much, but the top line has a GF which is significantly above their xGF. Their SH% is unrealistically high and is NOT sustainable over the long term. When this regresses to some norm, the outcome will be --- bad.

 

[KingBogo]

Not sure I know how a multiple quoted this but hey why not

That bumper spot was a problem for us. Now, was it a matter of just standing in front and shooting pucks, or is it something else?

Not everyone can play the bumber spot well. Monahan's ability do help spread the ice from there has given Vilardi more room net side and given Scheifele and Morrissey more room and time along the wall. I see getting someone who can play that position as having a ripple effect through the whole PP.

 

[KingBogo]

Seems like.dispite the "hemeraging", the patient lives on.... 7-1 in the last 8

I often wonder what an interaction between a fan who posts stuff like this and Boner would look like if the fan were to trot out some non-proprietary, basic advanced stat available free online to an NHL coach with 40 years of experience and access to their own contracted stat person/department about his player usage/deployment

I sense there's be an amused grin on his face, a sparkle in his eye and a subtle yet slightly condescending quip on his behalf

I didn't have time to respond to this earlier, but I think you bring up an interesting point on us not knowing how much more robust internal proprietary tracking information is than the publicly available tracking numbers. There are a few things teams would want to have a better handle on and Bones has alluded to this in the past. The first being having a better handle on what role each player on the ice had for positive and negative events, rather than all 5 players getting the same measure. I would think they would also want a lot better handle on if a negative event was a mistake, system breakdown or being overwhelmed by the positive play of the opposition, and then grade accordingly.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

IMO, Bones (boner) wants that top line to work - so he's going to let it play out for a bit.
He's not an idiot - and he sees the same numbers (only better) that we do - and he's a defense first coach.

You'd also have to assume that 81/55 want to play together - and they've all had that discussion (coach / players) about expectations, commitment to the game plan, and results that are needed. To assume otherwise is to assume these guys don't know what the hell they are doing - and i don't buy that. Especially when you consider how important the first line is and the impact they have on the jets.

So it's just as easy to assume he is allowing a little more leash than some might be comfortable with - he wants to win but he also wants to allow player input and he wants his stars to be part of the discussion - and happy. Because if you think we're running out of time for this trial and the concern of that impact, think for a moment of the impact that a couple of pissed of star players will have as you play through the home stretch.

It might make sense to allow the players to prove they belong together, and that means enough games to remove all doubt, and then make changes that are backed with meaningful, and current data - especially if they are producing. Bones can then work to influence the shortfalls and hopefully everyone wins. And if it doesn't work out, there's no complaining about opportunity - or at least there shouldn't be.

In the end, he'll need to make a decision - but he doesn't need to make it now - and that's the part that we are struggling with. Coaches are always more patient than fans.

Good post. Good perspective. "These guys", meaning coaches, GMs and players do know what they are doing. That doesn't mean they are always right, but we certainly can afford to have a little patience, especially while they are winning and hanging around the top of the league.

It is so frustrating watching Jets hemmed into their own end for very long stretches, but if it is frustrating for us fans imagine how much worse it must be for the coaches.

 

[Gm0ney]

Exactly. I do commend you for trying to put this whole subject in some appropriate context but it seems to be mission impossible.

Hasn`t been talked about much, but the top line has a GF which is significantly above their xGF. Their SH% is unrealistically high and is NOT sustainable over the long term. When this regresses to some norm, the outcome will be --- bad.

Well, hopefully they get it together a bit and are closer to breaking even on total shots/chances/xG.

It's a little weird how terrible they've been against some weaker teams...

 

[raideralex99]

There is no problem with Connor's goal scoring. But you are looking only at GF. Why can't he use his speed and good hands in the D zone? D zone play does not always have to be about nothing but mass and strength. It is frustrating to watch Connor not bother to skate to check a puck carrier in open ice. No board battle involved.

No one is suggesting Connor become a power forward. Just make an effort in the D zone.

We can go back and forth all day long on this subject but what's the point. You have your mind Connor is crap playing defense.
I'm just going to mention the GWG by Connor last night. He's deep at the Blues redline ... he makes a pass to Vilardi at the slot but its intercepted by a Blues player and they break out 3 on 2 with Vilardi and Scheifele right behind them. Connor is fast but seriously do you expect him to catch a player 50 feet in front of him before they cross the blueline? If the Blues score on that play Connor gets the blame right?
As it turns out Morrissey checks the player and passes it up to Connor and he scores the game winner but hey lets talk about how crappy Connor's defensive play is.
Most of the time when a player is checking someone from behind it result in a penalty too.
I wonder if Chevy trades Connor for a good checking winger if the Jets score more goals and give up less goals. Oh wait a minute the Jets already give up the least amount of goals in the NHL.

 

[KingBogo]

You make a good point but don't overlook:

11FD 8DF 78.3% xAG 8.2 dAK 7.7 14.1%

And that just with the CSV line.

Here is a glossary you can use.

Evolving-Hockey

evolving-hockey.com

 

[Stumbledore]

Here is a glossary you can use.

Evolving-Hockey

evolving-hockey.com

Look up. Look way up. If your quick, you can see her joke sailing over your head.

 

[KingBogo]

Look up. Look way up. If your quick, you can see her joke sailing over your head.

I got her joke and thought it was funny, but I thought it would be helpful to post a glossary in case she or anyone else wanted a definition of the terms used.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

That bumper spot was a problem for us. Now, was it a matter of just standing in front and shooting pucks, or is it something else?

You have to be willing to take punishment and know how to play off that kind of physical play

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

We can go back and forth all day long on this subject but what's the point. You have your mind Connor is crap playing defense.
I'm just going to mention the GWG by Connor last night. He's deep at the Blues redline ... he makes a pass to Vilardi at the slot but its intercepted by a Blues player and they break out 3 on 2 with Vilardi and Scheifele right behind them. Connor is fast but seriously do you expect him to catch a player 50 feet in front of him before they cross the blueline? If the Blues score on that play Connor gets the blame right?
As it turns out Morrissey checks the player and passes it up to Connor and he scores the game winner but hey lets talk about how crappy Connor's defensive play is.
Most of the time when a player is checking someone from behind it result in a penalty too.
I wonder if Chevy trades Connor for a good checking winger if the Jets score more goals and give up less goals. Oh wait a minute the Jets already give up the least amount of goals in the NHL.

I'm not talking about any 1 play. You have been presented with massive amounts of data, including simple GF - GA that clearly shows that Connor's net effect is less than great. And yet you persist in denying the results of his flaws.

And all that I am doing is acknowledging those flaws. I'm not calling him a terrible player, or anything like that. I like Connor, I'm a fan. But I'm not a fan of him with Scheifele. That's all.

 

[raideralex99]

There is no problem with Connor's goal scoring. But you are looking only at GF. Why can't he use his speed and good hands in the D zone? D zone play does not always have to be about nothing but mass and strength. It is frustrating to watch Connor not bother to skate to check a puck carrier in open ice. No board battle involved.

No one is suggesting Connor become a power forward. Just make an effort in the D zone.

I'm not talking about any 1 play. You have been presented with massive amounts of data, including simple GF - GA that clearly shows that Connor's net effect is less than great. And yet you persist in denying the results of his flaws.

And all that I am doing is acknowledging those flaws. I'm not calling him a terrible player, or anything like that. I like Connor, I'm a fan. But I'm not a fan of him with Scheifele. That's all.

I know his flaws ... I don't like it either. I wish Connor would finish his checks.
I'm just saying his defensive play gets over blown. Connor has the last 3 game winning goals but his defensive play always keeps coming up.
Scheifele is the #1 center and Connor is the #1 goal scorer on the Jets ... any coach would keep them together. Show me one team that does not play their #1 center and top goal scorer on the same line.
Ehlers with Monahan is starting to score now too ... so why do people want to switch Ehlers with Connor it makes so sense when both lines are scoring.