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Player Discussion JESPERI KOTKANIEMI

bleedgreen said:
And I’m fine with giving him space to start this season and see which version of the guy we really have. I can believe he’s good enough and growing into the role, but we’re in our window and we really need someone in the spot who picks up the slack when the other two are off. Or just makes the other two better. That’s why I say I think it’s pretty 50/50 with him. If we didn’t have Staal he’d be an awesome 3C and I wouldn’t have a single nit to pick with his acquisition and play to date.
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I mean, Staal is 35 and Koko is 23, this front office doesn't think in terms of just the near future. Yes Staal has 4 more years but both are at such a small cap hit (especially as the cap rises) that I really don't see any issues at all with having both here in the short term and then still having Koko after Staal hangs them up. Koko is a very positive asset right now, still with big upside and potential. If he hits it great we're set at C. Even if not and he remains a 40-50 point guy forever, that's valuable on his current contract, either here or in a trade where we package him and other pieces to upgrade at 2C.

I don't completely disagree with you about the roles here but I just don't really see an argument that giving up a late 1st and 3rd for him and signing him long term wasn't a win and smart decision. He's already contributed positively as a 2C for a Conf. finals team, can develop into the more traditional 2C we might need, and if not is a positive asset we can move or just keep in a different role. I understand the Rod/Staal thing going on obviously, but Staal has been very effective as a middle 6 C even in his advanced age so I don't blame Rod for utilizing him as much as he does. If Staal falls off I can easily see Rod playing him less which can move Koko to 3C and open up room for a 2C upgrade. And even if he doesn't, it's hardly the worst situation to temporarily have JK as the "4C" if he's not moved in a trade for a 2C upgrade (which my guess is he likely would be).
 
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AhosDatsyukian said:
I mean, Staal is 35 and Koko is 23, this front office doesn't think in terms of just the near future. Yes Staal has 4 more years but both are at such a small cap hit (especially as the cap rises) that I really don't see any issues at all with having both here in the short term and then still having Koko after Staal hangs them up. Koko is a very positive asset right now, still with big upside and potential. If he hits it great we're set at C. Even if not and he remains a 40-50 point guy forever, that's valuable on his current contract, either here or in a trade where we package him and other pieces to upgrade at 2C.

I don't completely disagree with you about the roles here but I just don't really see an argument that giving up a late 1st and 3rd for him and signing him long term wasn't a win and smart decision. He's already contributed positively as a 2C for a Conf. finals team, can develop into the more traditional 2C we might need, and if not is a positive asset we can move or just keep in a different role. I understand the Rod/Staal thing going on obviously, but Staal has been very effective as a middle 6 C even in his advanced age so I don't blame Rod for utilizing him as much as he does. If Staal falls off I can easily see Rod playing him less which can move Koko to 3C and open up room for a 2C upgrade. And even if he doesn't, it's hardly the worst situation to temporarily have JK as the "4C" if he's not moved in a trade for a 2C upgrade (which my guess is he likely would be).
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He’s a positive asset overall of course, it’s how the team is shaped that can lead to the questions. If we’re short a few goals again at the end of the season, this is a spot that you’ll look at to see if there was enough there. It can have a negative impact even if he plays well. It’s not like I’m screaming from the rooftops against the move, only that it’s a question mark still. Especially with how he’s being used.
 
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Joe McGrath said:
Vegas had William Karlsson as their 2C last year, making $5.9 million and he had 53 points. That seems like what the ask should be for Koko (or thereabouts) this season IMO.

The unique thing about the way they use him with Svech and Necas is that both wings are puck dominant play driver types. You don’t see that very often. He’s the Bunting/Tlusty/Hornqvist/ General shit disturber, but he’s also a center. It’s odd. I like the player, I like the role, I just need to see the production keep increasing.
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2C is a weird one. There's been a real variance in this era. Pittsburgh wins 3 Cups with an all-time great in Malkin. Yet, Chicago wins 3 with a winger in Sharp, an end of the line Handzus and an aging Richards. You have the likes of Stamkos, Backstrom, Carter and Brind'Amour with the aforementioned Karlsson, Gourde (Stamkos was hurt), Kadri (outlier year) and Schenn.

Broaden it out to include teams that were a win or two away and that adds Malkin, Stamkos, etc, but also Filppula (Datsyuk was hurt and then played wing), Peca, Elias (terrible playoff production) and Fisher.
 
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MisterDobz said:
I’m sorry, did I say that?
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Here's what you said: "KK wil end up as a 40 point scorer, just like Jarvis."

Given the syntax, it is pretty easy to assume that you meant that KK and Jarvis will both end up as 40 point scorers, in your opinion. Which, to me, doesn't make much sense.

If you meant something else, the only thing you could have meant was "23 year old KK will end up as a 40 point scorer like 21 year old Jarvis is now." Which makes even less sense.
 
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Gocanes0506 said:
Koko is third on the team for individual expected goals in our first 3 games at 5v5 and first in per 60 rate.

Martinook, Fast, Koko, Staal, and Jarvis are the top 5.

Martinook, Fast, and Koko are about 0.6 and the next three start with 0.3
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So you are saying his expected offensive prowess is that of Martinook, Fast and Staal? :sarcasm:
 
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Gocanes0506 said:
Koko is third on the team for individual expected goals in our first 3 games at 5v5 and first in per 60 rate.

Martinook, Fast, Koko, Staal, and Jarvis are the top 5.

Martinook, Fast, and Koko are about 0.6 and the next three start with 0.3
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This is the Canes, we know EXPECTED goals and ACTUAL goals have a Grand Canyon-sized chasm in between them and as such is a completely worthless stat :naughty:
 
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