Player Discussion Jeremy Swayman

[lopey]

This is ANOTHER example of why you don't pay premium money to goaltenders. ANY goaltender, not just Swayman. Its also another example of why you don't leave yourself without any leverage during a contract negotiation by trading one of your goalies before the other one is extended.

85% of the people on this board wanted Swayman extended and wanted him to get paid. There's a lot of selective amnesia around here regarding that. My how things have changed.....

I wanted Sway signed but not at what he got. I said he did not prove himself in games played. He was a RFa. Force s bridge deal. Make him earn his payday. Sweeney just gave him what he wanted

 

[Otherworld]

I won't start dumping all over Swayman because of this season. There are plenty of other issues that need to be resolved 1st before we get to Swayman. Just because the goalie is always the easiest player on the team to blame doesn't make it right.

 

[Sheppy]

People wanted Swayman extended, but not at $8.25M a season.

He's never eclipsed 50 games in a season for christ sake.

It was a questionable deal from the beginning.

 

[Sheppy]

I won't start dumping all over Swayman because of this season. There are plenty of other issues that need to be resolved 1st before we get to Swayman. Just because the goalie is always the easiest player on the team to blame doesn't make it right.

Right, and I get that, but the fact that this guy held out for a ridiculous amount of money, got paid and hasn't (so far) lived up to 50% of it is the issue here.

He's been the shits. When you're getting that dollar amount, you can't have 1-2 good games and then 5 bad ones.

 

[RoccoF14]

People wanted Swayman extended, but not at $8.25M a season.

He's never eclipsed 50 games in a season for christ sake.

It was a questionable deal from the beginning.

So $6.5-7mil would have made it OK then?

 

[Sheppy]

So $6.5-7mil would have made it OK then?

I mean, better, yes. $8.25 is ridiculous to pay a guy who hasn't been a clear cut starter.

He got that money because he had a decent playoffs.

I don't think he's been the biggest issue, but he's damn sure part of it.

Do you think he's worth $8+M?

 

[RoccoF14]

Good Article..

'There's not one right way to do it': Why paying goalies is so complicated in today's NHL

When Igor Shesterkin turned down a record offer from the Rangers, it left many wondering how much a goalie should make. We look at some of the factors that make it such a hard question to answer.

www.espn.com

This quote summs it up perfectly...

"A lot of what makes goaltending hard is that a guy who stops 92% of shots is one of the best goalies in the world," Tulsky said. "A guy who stops 91% is kind of average. And the difference between those is not very big. You watch a guy face 500 or 1,000 shots, and he might stop 91 or 92% by chance. It takes a lot of time to know for sure that this is a guy that is going to stop 91 or 92% day after day."

The difference between .900 (League Average) and .915 is 15 goals over 1,000 shots. You wanna pay an extra $4-5mil/yr for that?

THAT'S why you don't pay premium money for goalies. I can't make it any simpler.....

 

[RoccoF14]

Do you think he's worth $8+M?

No. Never did. Its not specific to Swayman either. If I'm a GM, I'm not paying ANY goalie that much.

Personally, I don't think a team should use more than 10% of a their total cap space on goalie salaries. But that's just me.

 

[Absurdity]

Korpasalo,DiPietro and Bussi can lead us through the next 2 to seasons of dark ages no chance of playoff hockey that we are facing.

The Bruins' goal for next season is to make the playoffs.

You need to upgrade this roster, what is filling out this roster in front of any goalie is just not acceptable. Do you want to get stuck with Swaymans, contract for another seven years, not me. You have Korpisalo, and maybe DePietro, but an 8.2 mil goalie, just does not cut it when you have your top two defenseman, with health concerns, your offense is dismal, and your prospect pool, is nonexistent in my estimation, and I hope some young players that Sweeney got at the TDKL, might surprise, but that is not enough. Sweeney, will have to make a push in FA, and don't get stupid like he did last year, and he neeeds to draft better than he has in the past, trades should also be another route to examine. I sorry, but 3-6 years of this bullshit is not acceptable.

The issue is the FA market for goaltenders is barren this year. That could be seen as a good thing or a bad thing. On one hand, a team may be willing to trade for Swayman in hopes he bounces back, on the other hand, who would the Bruins replace Swayman with, especially if the goal is to compete next season? Does having Korpisalo and DiPietro as a tandem get them there? Dom doesn't think DiPietro is an NHL goaltender and Bussi hasn't shown he is either. The defense should be better with Lindholm and McAvoy back. The Bruins have cap space to make deals without having to deal Swayman away. If the goal is to be a playoff team next season, I still think Swayman gives them a better chance given he was playing close to a vezina-level just a year ago.

 

[TD Charlie]

Good Article..

'There's not one right way to do it': Why paying goalies is so complicated in today's NHL

When Igor Shesterkin turned down a record offer from the Rangers, it left many wondering how much a goalie should make. We look at some of the factors that make it such a hard question to answer.

www.espn.com

This quote summs it up perfectly...

"A lot of what makes goaltending hard is that a guy who stops 92% of shots is one of the best goalies in the world," Tulsky said. "A guy who stops 91% is kind of average. And the difference between those is not very big. You watch a guy face 500 or 1,000 shots, and he might stop 91 or 92% by chance. It takes a lot of time to know for sure that this is a guy that is going to stop 91 or 92% day after day."

The difference between .900 (League Average) and .915 is 15 goals over 1,000 shots. You wanna pay an extra $4-5mil/yr for that?

THAT'S why you don't pay premium money for goalies. I can't make it any simpler.....

Too much math

But if it means on average you surrender 2-3 fewer goals in a playoff series, not to mention the peace of mind and confidence it can put into the roster, yeah I can see where it is worth it to have the money goalie

 

[Hookslide]

The Bruins' goal for next season is to make the playoffs.

The issue is the FA market for goaltenders is barren this year. That could be seen as a good thing or a bad thing. On one hand, a team may be willing to trade for Swayman in hopes he bounces back, on the other hand, who would the Bruins replace Swayman with, especially if the goal is to compete next season? Does having Korpisalo and DiPietro as a tandem get them there? Dom doesn't think DiPietro is an NHL goaltender and Bussi hasn't shown he is either. The defense should be better with Lindholm and McAvoy back. The Bruins have cap space to make deals without having to deal Swayman away. If the goal is to be a playoff team next season, I still think Swayman gives them a better chance given he was playing close to a vezina-level just a year ago.

I get what you are saying but way too many holes on this team, to worry about 8 mil Sway, and to risky to gamble that contract will work. Sorry, but Swayman has been pissed since arbitration, and I have inside knowledge, but there was something going on with that Lockeroom, and I think Marchand was not happy, and I believe some it comes from the contract and holdout. Monty situation was also a contributing factor. Clean house was started at the deadline, it must continue,. I have said it before about Swayman, when everything, is peaches and cream he is the "Bulldog" when not he is a pain in the ass.

 

[Otherworld]

Right, and I get that, but the fact that this guy held out for a ridiculous amount of money, got paid and hasn't (so far) lived up to 50% of it is the issue here.

He's been the shits. When you're getting that dollar amount, you can't have 1-2 good games and then 5 bad ones.

I understand your frustration. Goaltending depends on team defense. Swayman can and and should be better. The same can be said for the entire team. Goalie stats are completely dependent on the entire team playing well defensively.

 

[RoccoF14]

Too much math

But if it means on average you surrender 2-3 fewer goals in a playoff series, not to mention the peace of mind and confidence it can put into the roster, yeah I can see where it is worth it to have the money goalie

I get your point, and I'm not a huge analytics guy either. But you gotta use SOME math, no? I mean the whole "he's a playoff goalie" argument was what most people were using as their argument to pay Swayman in the first place...

Use Hellebuyck as an example. That guy was atrocious in the playoffs last year. Point here is that its impossible to predict how a player is going to perform in the post season. Math is pretty much all you got.

 

[RoccoF14]

I understand your frustration. Goaltending depends on team defense. Swayman can and and should be better. The same can be said for the entire team. Goalie stats are completely dependent on the entire team playing well defensively.

That's why 90% of your cap should go to the rest of the team.....

 

[Hookslide]

I understand your frustration. Goaltending depends on team defense. Swayman can and and should be better. The same can be said for the entire team. Goalie stats are completely dependent on the entire team playing well defensively.

Well, my argument has been since that contract was signed; you need players in front of any goalie, but the cupboard was bare, for anyone else to be added. Admit your mistake and move on the risk is too great to be stuck with that contract, if he flourishes elsewhere so be it.

 

[Sheppy]

I understand your frustration. Goaltending depends on team defense. Swayman can and and should be better. The same can be said for the entire team. Goalie stats are completely dependent on the entire team playing well defensively.

Well then giving him Hellebyuck money is a huge issue.

 

[RoccoF14]

Well, my argument has been since that contract was signed; you need players in front of any goalie, but the cupboard was bare, for anyone else to be added. Admit your mistake and move on the risk is too great to be stuck with that contract, if he flourishes elsewhere so be it.

Nah. Totally disagree. We made a mistake overpaying him this summer because we made a rash decision and thought he was gonna be the second coming of Marty Brodeur.

Making another rash decision because he's struggled this year, on a shit team, is just compounding one bad decision with another. Dumping him is premature. You don't just dump every highly paid player on the roster because they've had a bad year. 3 bad years? OK. But not after 1. That's roster kryptonite.

 

[22Brad Park]

Well then giving him Hellebyuck money is a huge issue.

Take it up with Sweeney he was the guy who cornered himself.

 

[Sheppy]

Take it up with Sweeney he was the guy who cornered himself.

I know, and that's the guy I don't want anywhere near the draft this year.

"Don, you have a top 10 pick here, who are we thinking? We've got Frondell, Eklund and McQueen on the table still"

"Hmmm, how about William Moore? Boston College, right down the street? We can even give him some silly nickname because he's a local kid!"

"Don, he's projected to go early second round, lets not do that... Don... DON!"

 

[22Brad Park]

I understand your frustration. Goaltending depends on team defense. Swayman can and and should be better. The same can be said for the entire team. Goalie stats are completely dependent on the entire team playing well defensively.

Not completely, but behind a team like this he never gets a chance to build confidence. Every night he sees 15 Grade A looks from the haskmarks in and it just keeps building everytime he let's one in and you end up shattered.I blame the Bruins GM here all the way .He never ever should have traded Ullmark till he had this guy locked up affordable.And if the kid refuses to sign then you are forced into retaining Ullmark and moving him.In no way shape or form was it smart to corner himself in those negotiations.The GMs job definitely includes staying in control of his roster decisions, which he was not ,& Swayman & his agent jumped on it.How can anyone blame Swayman for taking advantage of it and filling his bank account? Good or not he is set for life

 

[Hookslide]

Nah. Totally disagree. We made a mistake overpaying him this summer because we made a rash decision and thought he was gonna be the second coming of Marty Brodeur.

Making another rash decision because he's struggled this year, on a shit team, is just compounding one bad decision with another. Dumping him is premature. You don't just dump every highly paid player on the roster because they've had a bad year. 3 bad years? OK. But not after 1. That's roster kryptonite.

And are you willing to live with that albatross of a contract, should he not play better, I am not. One just don't trust the player, on and off the ice, from what I have witnessed, on ice performance and his pissy attitude rubs me wrong, and I get the impression, I am not the only one that feels that way.

 

[JoeIsAStud]

That's why 90% of your cap should go to the rest of the team.....

And next year assuming they are still paying JK to be their backup, it will only be about 88%. So too much investment in the goalie I guess by your standard, but over pay by 1.5 mil total
In 2026 that number rises to 89%, and literally off by a under a million
In 2027 that number rises to 90%, and Sway and a backup will be less that that

Sway did something Linus couldn't do last season, and that is stand on his head and steal a series where they are NOT the better team. (Linus didn't win a couple series where they were the better team). I still believe that ability is critical to success for a team in postseason.

I still believe Swayman can be that player and am not willing to throw him into the trash bin for one terrible season, but obviously if they make the decision he can't be that player then it is a problem and they need to move on.

 

[Fenian24]

No. Never did. Its not specific to Swayman either. If I'm a GM, I'm not paying ANY goalie that much.

Personally, I don't think a team should use more than 10% of a their total cap space on goalie salaries. But that's just me.

That's 8.8 this year and 95.5 next. Bruins will be at 11.25 with Swayman and Korpasalo, about a 3% difference over what you would pay.

 

[Absurdity]

I get what you are saying but way too many holes on this team, to worry about 8 mil Sway, and to risky to gamble that contract will work. Sorry, but Swayman has been pissed since arbitration, and I have inside knowledge, but there was something going on with that Lockeroom, and I think Marchand was not happy, and I believe some it comes from the contract and holdout. Monty situation was also a contributing factor. Clean house was started at the deadline, it must continue,. I have said it before about Swayman, when everything, is peaches and cream he is the "Bulldog" when not he is a pain in the ass.

If he is a problem in the locker room especially with what looks like Pastrnak and McAvoy taking prominent roles in the leadership group next season, then the Bruins should think about moving on from Swayman this offseason before his NMC kicks in.

 

[RoccoF14]

And next year assuming they are still paying JK to be their backup, it will only be about 88%. So too much investment in the goalie I guess by your standard, but over pay by 1.5 mil total
In 2026 that number rises to 89%, and literally off by a under a million
In 2027 that number rises to 90%, and Sway and a backup will be less that that

Sway did something Linus couldn't do last season, and that is stand on his head and steal a series where they are NOT the better team. (Linus didn't win a couple series where they were the better team). I still believe that ability is critical to success for a team in postseason.

I still believe Swayman can be that player and am not willing to throw him into the trash bin for one terrible season, but obviously if they make the decision he can't be that player then it is a problem and they need to move on.

Sway had a great series against Toronto. Agreed, although I don't know how you could say we weren't the better team when we finished 7pts above Toronto in the standings. We stole that series? Really? If he was gonna steal a series, it would have been the Florida one, no? They were 1pt better than us.

Sway and Ullmark had virtually identical regular season stats last season. Playing for the same team. Sway and Korpi have identical regular season Save % stats this season. Playing for the same team. If Swayman was still making $4mil/yr, this thread conversation isn't happening.

Now, does that mean we should dump him? Absolutely not. We should build a better team around him. He's shown he can perform with a decent team in front of him. Problem is that between him and Korpisalo, they're eating up about $2-3mil in extra cap money....among other things.