Player Discussion Jeremy Swayman: VII - agreed to 8 x 8.25 aav

[smithformeragent]

One could make the argument that we're beating a dead horse here.

So be it. Discuss, if you so choose. We'll keep all the Swayman talk contained to this thread.

If you have nothing meaningful to contribute to the conversation, move along.

We will not have this devolve into thread hijacking and flaming of other posters.

@Gee Wally

We have numerous deletions and more in here. We know tension and emotions are high.
But you folks must simply stop taking personal shots at each. Stay to topic.

If not we will be left with no choice other than adding thread bans.

Click to read more...

 

[SwayHeyKid]

The whole “ I want to play in Boston “ - “I want to be here” etc, etc and not accepting an 8x8M offer screams he’s full of shit.

I don’t know, man. Seems pretty weird.

Maybe he does want to play in Boston....for four years....or six years....or maybe he wants 4/34....Maybe Neely wants 8/64...maybe for 8 years with the cap the way it is Swayman wants 72, or 75.....Maybe he wants to maximize his earnings and stay in Boston for 4 then 8 years. Maybe he wants 10 mil signing bonus in the possible lock out year and they said no....maybe he wants more control then then they offered on a NMC....maybe he wants the Tkachuk type deal where most of the money is in a SB.

Something doesn't add up like you said. Neely says ---

“What his ask is and what we believe his comp group is,” Neely said, “are two different things.”

The comp groups I read here are 4/20, 6/36.....is that what Neely means with comp group on a shorter term deal? Is Swayman looking for Vaz/Bobrovsky/Shesty money (coming up)?

 

[22Brad Park]

Neely sure exposed him for what he is.GREEDY.

 

[Dr Quincy]

That would be sensible, although that seems to be seriously lacking in these talks.

Explain how 2 years is sensible.

 

[BruinDust]

They can say whatever they want but what Elias Lindholm got is going to have no bearing on the Bruins side - or any team for that matter.

And why is that? Why can't a goaltender compare his worth to the organization to that of a forward or D-man? Isn't that what it really comes down to? How much they (the organization) value the player, regardless of position?

By your logic as long as Swayman makes more than his back-up he should be happy. Because he simply isn't allowed to compare his value to the Bruins against any of the Bruin's skaters.

Why did Tampa pay Vasilievsky roughly the same amount as Point and Kucherov. More than Hedman. TB should of told him to go kick rocks here is 7 million per for 8 years you are just a goalie and your not as valued.

 

[UncleRico]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1840783576230400270

Is KDP saying the bruins haven’t received an answer regarding the 8x8 or that KDP reached out to the swayman camp and didn’t hear back?

 

[mar2kbos]

Swayman needs to be real careful here. If they eventually give him what he wants the fans will be ruthless for any bad games or ruts he goes into. Is it fair? No. Will it happen? Absolutely

 

[Nothingbutglass]

If he was in Philly, he'd already be being pelted with batteries.

 

[TD Charlie]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1840783576230400270

Is KDP saying the bruins haven’t received an answer regarding the 8x8 or that KDP reached out to the swayman camp and didn’t hear back?

It’s vague. Not sure either.

 

[Mad-Marcus]

He's losing the fanbase.

 

[bearcountry17]

TIL signing a 8 year 64 million dollar contract with a 132 games under your belt is “ruining the market” for the future generations of goaltenders…

 

[TD Charlie]

He's losing the fanbase.

It’s crazy how much things have shifted in the last several hours. To me it’s still very much salvageable though. Swaymans gotta do the work now, not Sweeney

 

[Eddie Munson]

To a certain degree, yes I am.

Connor Hellebuyck signed that contract at 30 years old. And let's be honest, his playoff record is very suspect. He insists on playing 60+ games every year and it shoots him and his team square in the foot every time.

Saros is 29. Still has never won a playoff series. That being said I felt he took less than he should but factor in no state tax and his own desire to stay in Nashville (I assume), that isn't Swayman's problem IMO.

Andrei Vasilievsky was 25 when he signed his current deal max deal and he signed it Summer 2019 before he ever won a cup or Conn Smythe. He wasn't that far beyond Swayman when he inked that deal. A shade over 200 games played and coming off a disasterous playoff in 2019. Then factor in what the cap was then, what is is right now, and where it is expected to be going, 9.5 per for Swayman is starting to look light in comparison. Oh and there is also the no state tax thing there as well.

That's the issue here all summer. There is no goaltender currently under contract that is a true comparable. In every case there are factors that don't line up. Whether it's age, their track record, when they signed, what the cap was, where the cap went, etc. etc. His real comparables are Shesterkin, Oettinger, when healthy I'd add Demko. But they are still on their bridge deals and unfortunately for the Bruins and their fans, someone has to go first among that group and it's Swayman.

Personally I think the numbers of teams who would sign him to 9-9.5 over a 8 year deal are numerous.

Did you forget Vasilevskiy’s Vezina he received one month before that contract?

 

[Pia8988]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1840783576230400270

Is KDP saying the bruins haven’t received an answer regarding the 8x8 or that KDP reached out to the swayman camp and didn’t hear back?

latter

 

[BruinDust]

Did you forget Vasilevskiy’s Vezina he received one month before that contract?

Nope.

 

[Scotto74]

And why is that? Why can't a goaltender compare his worth to the organization to that of a forward or D-man? Isn't that what it really comes down to? How much they (the organization) value the player, regardless of position?

By your logic as long as Swayman makes more than his back-up he should be happy. Because he simply isn't allowed to compare his value to the Bruins against any of the Bruin's skaters.

Why did Tampa pay Vasilievsky roughly the same amount as Point and Kucherov. More than Hedman. TB should of told him to go kick rocks here is 7 million per for 8 years you are just a goalie and your not as valued.

When he signed that contract it was immediately compared to what other goalies were making. and setting the Bar for future GOALIE contracts.

Andrei Vasilevskiy’s new contract with the Lightning is a big deal

The Tampa Bay Lightning gave us a Monday whopper with an early contract extension for Andrei Vasilevskiy. I had hoped that he might sign for a little bit less than this, but given the market for elite…

www.rawcharge.com

With Andrei Vasilevskiy’s $76M Extension, Tampa Bay Lightning Raise Bar For Goalie Salaries

Goalie salaries should be on the rise in the NHL after the Tampa Bay Lightning inked Andrei Vasilevskiy to an eight-year, $76 million contract extension.

www.forbes.com

Grading the Vasilevskiy deal: Eight-year term is a little scary

The 2018-19 Vezina winner is now under contract through 2028. We assess the deal within the context of the "don't pay for goalies" movement.

www.espn.com

You are the only person I have ever heard of saying a goalie should comp himself to position players in contract talks. I have never heard of that in my life.

 

[Gee Wally]

Bruins seem to have made their statement regarding Jeremy Swayman negotiations - The Boston Globe

Cam Neely's declaration at Monday's press conference — "I have 64 million reasons why I’d be playing right now" — spoke volumes.

www.bostonglobe.com

OK, the number is … $64 million.

We are led to believe today that’s the amount Jeremy Swayman has yet to accept from the Bruins for the 25-year-old goalie to step in as the franchise’s officially installed No. 1 stopper.

“I don’t want to get into the weeds as to what his ask is,” Bruins president Cam Neely said at Monday morning’s preseason press conference on Causeway Street. “But I know I have 64 million reasons why I’d be playing right now.”

First off, how delightful and utterly refreshing to hear Neely summon his hidden Harry Sinden. We haven’t had anyone in the Spoked-B front office be that blunt and quotable since Give ‘Em Hell Harry was on the watch as general manager.

For those too young to know, or too old to recall, Sinden in 1992 said he hoped then-prospect Joe Juneau “learned to yodel” when he was apprised of the winger’s hints that he would play in Switzerland rather than accept the Bruins’ offer.

A few days later, Juneau, just back from the French Alps, pulled on his freshly minted Bruins sweater after the ‘92 Olympics. Juneau earned a degree in aeronautical engineering at RPI while simultaneously learning to read and speak English. A very good, sharp guy, though he never learned to yodel.

A Globe reporter’s email sent to Swayman’s representative seeking comment amount Neely’s remark went unanswered. Swayman, who has said very little about negotiations publicly, has not been seen at the club’s training facility since camp opened nearly two weeks ago.

Extrapolating from Neely’s comment, and applying basic NHL CBA interpretive skills, we should assume the Bruins have offered their goalie $64 million over eight years — the maximum-length deal players are allowed to sign.

Asked if he believed reports that Swayman is trying to reset the market rates for NHL goalies, Neely said, “I do, yeah.

“What his ask is and what we think his comp is are two different things.”

Swayman is entitled to, and should, ask for the moon and more. That’s true of every athlete, every sport, no matter how outrageously high the numbers look to the vast majority of us who live our lives by the 37.5- or 40-hour work week. The sports industry at large is a play-dough world, right? We simply have to accept the numbers are crazy, and in the NHL, they actually can look somewhat modest when shouldered next to the vastly nuttier deals routinely handed out in the NFL, MLB, and NBA.

What could be in Swayman’s head — we are guessing here, folks — is the deal signed by Charlie McAvoy in October 2021. He squeezed GM Don Sweeney et al for eight years at $9.5 million, in what was his third NHL contract. It was a big bump from the $4.9 million cap of his previous three-year deal.

Is a franchise goalie worth at least the same as a franchise defenseman, comparing them as they enter their third contracts?

There are many hairs to split in that discussion, particularly when specifically comparing McAvoy and Swayman, but as someone who has chronicled the league for roughly a half-century, I’d be inclined to say, you betcha, pay the would-be franchise goalie what you paid the would-be franchise defenseman three years ago.

In terms of what we think they are, or what they will be, both Swayman and McAvoy are works in progress, yet to fulfill their “franchise” billings. Based on what Neely said, it’s a fair leap of logic to think Swayman could feel about $1.5 million per annum shortchanged, when looking at McAvoy’s deal, if the standing offer is eight years times $8 million.

That’s $12 million left on the table across an eight-year term. As they’d say in Maine, where Swayman matriculated before enrolling here in Jacobs University, that’s a lot of maple syrup and lobstahs.

But, again, we’re all just guessing here, trying to connect the dots that already exist on the Bruins payroll.

Another guess is that the Bruins feel they can remain firm at $8 million per year because the clock will tick louder with each second as Dec. 1 draws closer. Per the CBA, if not signed by then, Swayman’s NHL season is finished. He can go play in Europe. Or learn to yodel.

At that point, Swayman would forfeit a year of peak earning power, at a price of what we are to believe is $8 million. An NFL quarterback may think that’s weekend party money, but most of the NHL’s rank-and-file would swallow hard at that number. Bruins captain Brad Marchand, for instance, is finishing out a deal that carried a career-high $6.125 million cap hit. And he played to every bit of his billing — and beyond.

What’s different about today than any other day? Nothing, really, because Swayman remains out, free to enjoy early autumn’s splendid sun before the arrival of winter’s frozen sky.

But Neely giving up the figure of $64 million, after initially remarking that he is surprised at where things stand in negotiations, very well could have been his way of saying it’s time for Swayman to take it or leave it.

The season begins next Tuesday night, 53 days prior to Dec. 1, each second reverberating like a yodeler’s call echoing across the canyon.

 

[Eddie Munson]

Nope.

Ok. Just checking since you failed to mention it along with the hardware he didn’t win that year but won shortly after.

Maybe it’s just me but maybe having been in the running for the Vezina in 18 and then winning in 19 with 90% of the vote a month before signing that contract could have something to do with his contract figures?

 

[Chevalier du Clavier]

LMAO he hasn't talked about his contract.

"The answer I'm going to give you this year is that I've educated myself, and that I understand the business side of it all. And it's given me a complete new mindset of understanding the business and how to react to it. I understand the cap is going up and where it will be in years. I understand my comparables and how I can't ruin the goalie market for other guys that are going to be in my shoes down the line."

That's some hard hitting stuff on his negotiations with Boston. I mean I felt like I was part of the negations with this info you gave us.

Typical. Leave out the information that doesn't support your opinion.

 

[BruinDust]

You are the only person I have ever heard of saying a goalie should comp himself to position players in contract talks. I have never heard of that in my life.

I said internal position players. I didn't say Swayman was walking in an comparing himself to Connor McDavid.

Honestly to think that the Swayman camp haven't pointed to the recently signed contract to Elias Lindholm in order to try and win their argument is simply naive. They've likely pointed to other internal contracts as well (i.e. McAvoy).

These are competitive MFers and yes, they compare themselves against their own teammates in terms of value to the organization, regardless of position.

You (and others) are trying to make it sound like these negotiations are just one big protracted arbitration hearing, and they aren't. That these negotiations are just numbers and stats, tossing external comparables back and forth.

It's hearts and minds, and egos. And where an organization views the value of a player, relative to the other players within the organization does matter. If I'm Swayman and your offer is basically the equivalent to what you gave the Vancouver Canucks 3rd line center tells me you don't value me as much as I think you should.

 

[Chevalier du Clavier]

Explain how 2 years is sensible.

Two years isn't sensible. I was agreeing with @Gee Wally that 3 years is sensible because it allows things to cool down in hopes of putting together a long-term deal later.

 

[Grimey]

Do the Pens need 2 goaltenders?

They might need two in net at the same time with Matt Grzelcyk and Sebastian Aho playing left side defense

 

[UncleRico]

I think 8x8 was offered two weeks ago when the media was going wild he was about to sign. Someone in the organization got a little happy and leaked it.

8x8.5 get it done.

Both sides need to take Brad marchands advice and deal with contract negotiations privately instead of acting like a bunch of babies and talking through the media.

Don’t care who started it or who said something most recently just figure it the hell out because it’s ridiculous.

 

[Scotto74]

I said internal position players. I didn't say Swayman was walking in an comparing himself to Connor McDavid.

Honestly to think that the Swayman camp haven't pointed to the recently signed contract to Elias Lindholm in order to try and win their argument is simply naive. They've likely pointed to other internal contracts as well (i.e. McAvoy).

These are competitive MFers and yes, they compare themselves against their own teammates in terms of value to the organization, regardless of position.

You (and others) are trying to make it sound like these negotiations are just one big protracted arbitration hearing, and they aren't. That these negotiations are just numbers and stats, tossing external comparables back and forth.

It's hearts and minds, and egos. And where an organization views the value of a player, relative to the other players within the organization does matter. If I'm Swayman and your offer is basically the equivalent to what you gave the Vancouver Canucks 3rd line center tells me you don't value me as much as I think you should.

I understand you said internal position players and your example was vasilevskiy yet when he signed that giant contract not a single article was written about how it compared to the position players on his team. Everything was written about how it changed the Goalie market, how his contract comparied to other goalie contracts.

the reason for that was Goalies are compared to other goalies in negotiations. Comps.

that is also the reason Swayman said he could ruin the Goalie market.

I know when he signs his new contract it will be compared to other goalies and help set the market for other goalies. I don't think it will have anything to do with Marchand and Don talking about his next contract.

obviously this is getting no where so I am done.

 

[danpantz]

What other team is going to give Swayman 9 or more?

Utah?

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Swayman needs to be real careful here. If they eventually given him what he wants the fans will be ruthless for any bad games or ruts he goes into. Is it fair? No. Will it happen? Absolutely

Would Swayman care?

It's not like he has to give back any money.