Player Discussion Jeremy Swayman -VI President Cam Speaks: Monty, Donny, & Charlie too!

[Gee Wally]

Mod edit: @smithformeragent

As this situation continues to drag on:

Please keep the conversation pertinent to the topic and avoid making it personal.

Debate about the management of the salary cap and the performance of the general manager fits into the context of the conversation, but we’ll avoid dividing fans into camps like “pro-player” and “team apologist”.

Thanks!

Continue if you must. No flaming!

Click to read more...

 

[badbrewin]

The percentage doesn’t mean shit. He was underpaid before, and now it seems he wants a fair shake.

On an 8 year deal if he’s top 5 now he won’t be anything close to it by the end. Pay a few bucks more now, save a bunch down the line.

Yeah, the "percentage doesn't means shit" theory is an easy concept to throw out there when it isn't your money or your cap to manage. Does a small sample size without a full season as starter assure the Bruins of a long-term performance guarantee? (Jim Carey says hello) This is why I've been saying a 1-year $7M bridge as a full-time starter continues to be the best short-term option, THEN pay him on merit.

 

[LSCII]

You dont like the roster? I like it a lot.

No, it's got the same fatal flaws they've had for way too long to be a serious cup contender. Why do you like it?

 

[ON3M4N]

Yeah, the "percentage doesn't means shit" theory is an easy concept to throw out there when it isn't your money or your cap to manage. Does a small sample size without a full season as starter assure the Bruins of a long-term performance guarantee? (Jim Carey says hello) This is why I've been saying a 1-year $7M bridge as a full-time starter continues to be the best short-term option, THEN pay him on merit.

Swayman started 43 games last year. As the#1 he likely plays 55 games. Are we really concerned that he can't handle 12 extra games?

 

[Mad-Marcus]

No, it's got the same fatal flaws they've had for way too long to be a serious cup contender. Why do you like it?

Their bottom 6 should punish teams, wearing them out, Kastelic, Beecher, and Jones, or Duran, or Tufte are all big fast and defensively responsible., Geekie, if he 's a C, Frederic, and Brazeau are small.

This was the plan for this year, copycat, the STLB and FLA method of wearing teams out. Especially 2nd and 3rd pairing.
JMHO
Is it perfect, no, but name one team with a perfect roster. We just need player to fulfil their potential and we'll have enough scoring. Key word "enough".

 

[Guelph Bruin]

Is it possible the Bruins brass wants to keep a model of the 1a goalie getting 45-50 games and the 1b getting 30-40 starts and are keeping Swayman's offer on the lower side because they know they won't be giving him the work load of a true #1? If so, that sort of philosophical difference in salary related deployment might be a hurdle they never get over.

 

[TD Charlie]

Yeah, the "percentage doesn't means shit" theory is an easy concept to throw out there when it isn't your money or your cap to manage. Does a small sample size without a full season as starter assure the Bruins of a long-term performance guarantee? (Jim Carey says hello) This is why I've been saying a 1-year $7M bridge as a full-time starter continues to be the best short-term option, THEN pay him on merit.

The sample size argument is far better. I can understand some hesitance to pay him because of that. I think he’s worth a risk.

1 year he isn’t gonna go for. There’s no chance. 2, perhaps. And then he’s gone. You’ll never get him back after that.

 

[Mad-Marcus]

Swayman should be able to handle 55-60 games, plus PO's, but he hasn't, and his $$ demands are cart before the horse.
Once again, I put this on generational differences. I've stated, working in industry, the young engineers all want to be paid as if they have 10 years experience.

Maybe the world is passing me by, but I was brought up that nothing is handed to you, and you need to prove yourself everyday.

I have belief in Swayman, at 7.5M/yr. When he actually wins a Vezina, 3 rounds and get into the finals, then he can ask for the moon, and I'd gladly give it to him.

Key difference, will be worth it vs isn't right now. Shesterkin most likely getting 10M+ is because he is the consensus #1 goalie in the world. Swayman was considered top 7 last year, based on actual award voting, not so-called hockey experts with biased opinions.

We do need to sign Swayman, for a sizeable raise, and give him the ability to score his biggest contract after this next one. As I said before, this is the agent and the NHLPA using him to push the salary boundary for goaltenders. He is most certainly expected to be the next great goalie, but his arrival is based on these next few years. No big business is going to break the bank on expectations.
Certainly, not one that Jacobs owns.

If he is always going to be a negotiations albatross, he's not going to last in Boston anyway.
Right or wrong it is not the way the B's do business.

You see in baseball how most teams steer clear of Boras clients until the 11th hour and they don't get what they asked for unless they are lock, stock, proven, in their prime players.

 

[badbrewin]

Swayman started 43 games last year. As the#1 he likely plays 55 games. Are we really concerned that he can't handle 12 extra games?

Not saying 12 games is the separation between success or not, but I've been saying he needs to increase his sample size. If Swayman is confident in his ability, give him a 1 year $7M bridge, let him have his first full season as the official starter and if he sustains, pay him next year.

The B's are obviously not willing to commit term and money without more assurances.

I will add that Korpisalo's solid showing in camp likely isn't doing anything to ramp up Sweeney's urgency to get a deal done.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

At what point can Sweeney state that long term offers are off the table and Swayman needs to take a 1 year deal and either negotiate next summer or find a trade/new team? Opening night?

We have the cap room so on a 1 year deal it shouldn’t be the end of the world to cave and give him more. The longer we wait the more deadline space we bank.

It’s a shame he was such a little B about arbitration since arbitration this year would have resolved everything and he could have focused on hockey and positioning himself for the monster contract were he to win the Vezina and a couple of playoff rounds.

 

[Jorgolyte]

Gibson and Anaheim's '25 #1 if they have it, I would do.

Don't get me wrong, I'd absolutely do it.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Their bottom 6 should punish teams, wearing them out, Kastelic, Beecher, and Jones, or Duran, or Tufte are all big fast and defensively responsible., Geekie, if he 's a C, Frederic, and Brazeau are small.

This was the plan for this year, copycat, the STLB and FLA method of wearing teams out. Especially 2nd and 3rd pairing.
JMHO
Is it perfect, no, but name one team with a perfect roster. We just need player to fulfil their potential and we'll have enough scoring. Key word "enough".

Did you mean to say that?

 

[UncleRico]

At this point both sides need to meet in the middle and settle this.

That why arbitration is so important

 

[Dr Quincy]

Mr .Empty Net, stayed square, controlled most rebounds and stopped 40 shot, w/o much support, last night

Played well for sure, and that's a good thing. Hey, I own the guy in our SIM league and hope he crushes it this year, but I don't think a preseason game is enough to outweigh a couple hundred regular season NHL games.

But if we are going to do this, then Mason Lohrei had the 2nd worst game of any of the defensmen (CF%, FF%, xGF% SCF%). Does that mean Lohrei is going to suck this year?

Small sample sizes are NEVER enough to say a guy is good or bad or will be good or bad. Small sample sizes in exhibition games are even worse. Hopefully he's looking good every day in practice and putting the work in. We'll see how things go from here and the regular season if Swayman isn't back.

 

[Ladyfan]

I just wish he would get signed as this is a drag. I am sick of it.

I like him and hope he stays with the Bs. That being said 10 mil is too much. He will be under so much pressure at that price and he (IMO) isn't proven yet. Yes, he is good, but he hasn't had to carry a big load of the games. I am not even convinced he was the better net minder between he and Linus.

Come on Sway (and the Bs) get this done...please.

 

[JAD]

Gibson and Anaheim's '25 #1 if they have it, I would do.

The return would be better to let him sign an offer sheet. But no other team is going to offer him what he is asking because the compensation is too much and they don't think he is worth it.. plus i think the Bruins would match anything reasonable. And so he sits until they can come to an agreement.

 

[JoeIsAStud]

Gibson and Anaheim's '25 #1 if they have it, I would do.

So you are hoping Gibson can find the player he was 6 years ago.

I guess having 2 top 10 picks next year will help you in 2028, but I am not looking for the Bruins to tank this season

 

[Kegs]

No, it's got the same fatal flaws they've had for way too long to be a serious cup contender. Why do you like it?

It’s big and fast. I really like the defence. I think they have addressed the scoring from the point issue. I also like that they got a top six centre.

Poitras is one year older. Maybe he takes the reins and is a top six talent this year.

They also have a lot of fringe guys that can be called up incase of injuries.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Without a doubt in my mind it’s Gross and Sweeney holding this up. One is butthurt with Krug and one has the ego to “beat” Gross after the Nylander stuff. If the both are long term is true it’s about AAV and I see Sweeney being the one holding the fort

Could be wrong but it’s just stupid he’s not here. Sound like a 7 vs 9 AAV issue and both of them being dicks about it. Sweeney could and should do the right thing here

only one of the 2 parties has actually said anything publicly about "setting the goalie market" and it's not Sweeney

 

[SwayHeyKid]

only one of the 2 parties has actually said anything publicly about "setting the goalie market" and it's not Sweeney

You're right. Sweeney has wanted a deal since Jan 2 2024. He probably shouldn't have clearly lowballed him and Sway's agent shouldn't have leaked wanted to be paid like McAvoy.

"I think [Swayman] was somewhere in the mid-8s [million AAV] earlier this summer, and I think the Bruins were in the low 6s (obviously leaked by Gross) I think that's a pretty sizeable gap that hasn't been bridged yet." It was recently reported that Swayman is seeking $10 million per season, but Seravalli has heard otherwise----

How is mid 8's re-setting the goalie market when players already get more? Hellebuyck signed 6/6.1 SIX seasons ago with cap at 79.5 next years cap is 92 mil and will be climbing. Mid 8's over the next 8 years will be a steal in the last 6 seasons.

You Sweeney guys are something, you do understand while the Bruins might not leak the agents leak their offers right?

 

[Dr Quincy]

only one of the 2 parties has actually said anything publicly about "setting the goalie market" and it's not Sweeney

Actually, neither side said anything publicly about "setting the goalie market".

 

[ON3M4N]

Not saying 12 games is the separation between success or not, but I've been saying he needs to increase his sample size. If Swayman is confident in his ability, give him a 1 year $7M bridge, let him have his first full season as the official starter and if he sustains, pay him next year.

The B's are obviously not willing to commit term and money without more assurances.

I will add that Korpisalo's solid showing in camp likely isn't doing anything to ramp up Sweeney's urgency to get a deal done.

How big of a sample size does ge need?

Actually, neither side said anything publicly about "setting the goalie market".

It amazes me that people are still trying to push the narrative that Swayman said he wants to set the goalie market. No matter how many times they're told that's not what he said, they keep spewing the same nonsense.

 

[SwayHeyKid]

How big of a sample size does ge need?


It amazes me that people are still trying to push the narrative that Swayman said he wants to set the goalie market. No matter how many times they're told that's not what he said, they keep spewing the same nonsense.

The Sweeney acolytes are a pretty brainwashed bunch

 

[JAD]

Almost everything we write is speculative and based on assumption and conjecture; including this, but what I've imagined here is based upon fifty plus years of following and studying Bruins hockey and the NHL.

From the Bruins camp's perspective in this negotiation , no one player on this roster is more important than the team as a whole.

If Swayman doesn't sign before December he'll have plenty of time to study business classes on mitigating financial risk, net loss and asset management. Maybe learn why businesses shy away form risky investments such as paying premium for unrealized capital gain. Yes, there is risk involved; Sitting jeopardizes his career and long term investment in himself. Hopefully, he is smarter than that.

IF his demands are as unreasonable as rumored Boston's management should let him pound sand until he comes to his senses, or unfortunately has a new address.

As fans, we all want to get back to the finals and win the cup. Some think Swayman is a goaltender that could get them there based on his previous play. It is assumed Boston is a better team with Swayman on the roster. I like Swayman - the player, I want him to sign a reasonable contract; But not one that could cripple the team.

From Boston's management team's perspective they would agree the team would be deeper with Swayman on the roster. ...
But - here is where management and the fan base differ. ...
Management's goal is to make the playoffs each year with the best team they have available. Once there anything can happen. History has shown year after year that this philosophy and approach is true. A deep playoff run (as many home games as possible) keeps the owner happy. Yes, the ultimate goal is to win the cup. But they will do so according to their plans for the team and they won't let one single player hold them hostage.

If that means not having Swayman in the lineup, They will roll with what they have available rather than agree to an unprecedented contract that could have negative rippling effects upon the organization for years to come.. Even if the fans are pissed that Swayman wasn't signed fans will still buy tickets and fill the rink; and Boston's management knows that. Because Boston is a hockey town, the Bruins are a playoff team, and anything can happen once in.

With all that said, both fans and management want Swayman in the lineup, but not (at least from my perspective) by breaking the bank.

Writing this stuff is exhausting, therapeutic, but exhausting. But hey, they say hockey is entertainment.

 

[SwayHeyKid]

Swaymans actual comments

I understand the cap is going up and where it will be in years. I understand my comparables and how I can't ruin the goalie market for other guys that are going to be in my shoes down the line."

#FACTS

 

[wintersej]

One things folks have brought up in the anti-Sweeney arguments is not accounting for being able to get Swayman signed last year.

Lorhei, Frederic, Geekie, Marchand, Brazeau all due next year and Poitras and Lysell the year after (never mind needing to replace Marchand at some point)… don’t see a lot here talking about how giving Swayman a bigger bag effects specifically Lorhei and Poitras or even the ability to keep Frederic around.

Swaymans actual comments

I understand the cap is going up and where it will be in years. I understand my comparables and how I can't ruin the goalie market for other guys that are going to be in my shoes down the line."

#FACTS

Ah but what is the comparible he is talking about. Because 9.5 AAV sure doesn’t sound like any realistic comparison.