Player Discussion Jeremy Swayman -neither elect arbitration (page 16)

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Fenian24

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Just curious on why the B's would not do the 3-4 years at a reasonable deal? I think that's a risk they would take considering his work load to date.
They think he is there goalie for years to come (and the way he played in the playoffs I think they are right) and it costs more to buy UFA years. I'm betting right now Swayman is looking at 9+ and Sweeney is probably at 8+, they will have to compromise on years, maybe 6 instead of 8. 6 years at 8.5?

They are building the team on a great D and goaltending, Swayman is an integral part of this now and going forward.
 

BiteThisBurrows

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I do not know enough about these two prospects to comment intelligently.
Maybe Dom can comment on their floor and ceiling?
I am friends with some Buffalo fans. I can tell you that every time a trade scenario comes up they throw Rosen in it. He's small and soft. His NHL chances are less than Lysell's.
Johnson is a puck mover. He still needs development but I'd say his absolute ceiling would be Gryz-like, his floor would be Zboril.

I would not trade Carlo, but the only non roster prospect Buffalo has that looks good is Kulich (not counting this year's draft which I don't know much about their new guys). On the roster Benson's a guy I'd trade for but I doubt they would let him go.
 

BiteThisBurrows

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I like 7x7

Sounds fair. Looks fair. Get er Done!
People need to look at the salaries of other goalies more.

There is no way Swayman has earned a higher contract than Saros. He simply does not have the proven track record for that.

Anything over 7 is too much at this point. If that means shorter term fine. I'd easily offer 7x7 but if Swayman wants less term I'd be fine as well. If he gets 8, it means Sweeney lost the negotiation.
 

PB37

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People need to look at the salaries of other goalies more.

There is no way Swayman has earned a higher contract than Saros. He simply does not have the proven track record for that.

Anything over 7 is too much at this point. If that means shorter term fine. I'd easily offer 7x7 but if Swayman wants less term I'd be fine as well. If he gets 8, it means Sweeney lost the negotiation.

Why is that? 8 seems to be the consensus amount most people are speculating at and puts him as the 5th highest paid goalie between Sorokin and Saros when his extension kicks in.
 
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BruinDust

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Why is that? 8 seems to be the consensus amount most people are speculating at and puts him as the 5th highest paid goalie between Sorokin and Saros when his extension kicks in.

And Swayman's deal if at 8 years is eating up more of his prime years than either of Saros or Sorokin. Saros's deal takes him to age 38. Sorokin's deal takes him to 36. I wouldn't place money on either of them still being in the NHL when those contracts expire.

Swayman's deal if 8 years takes him through his age 26-33 seasons. Bruins would be buying 6 UFA years, nearly 75% of the contract. 26-33 for a goalie is basically their entire prime.

Then factor in a projected sharply rising salary cap.

8 years at 8.25 to me seems like a bit of a bargain.
 

TD Charlie

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And Swayman's deal if at 8 years is eating up more of his prime years than either of Saros or Sorokin. Saros's deal takes him to age 38. Sorokin's deal takes him to 36. I wouldn't place money on either of them still being in the NHL when those contracts expire.

Swayman's deal if 8 years takes him through his age 26-33 seasons. Bruins would be buying 6 UFA years, nearly 75% of the contract. 26-33 for a goalie is basically their entire prime.

Then factor in a projected sharply rising salary cap.

8 years at 8.25 to me seems like a bit of a bargain.
They're up against it here. Played hardball with the kid last go 'round, and he put his nuts on the table and performed 10x over his pay grade.

I'm right there with you. 8 to 8 and a corter would be a solid deal. Up to 9 would be fine. Over 9 it gets dicey. Under 8 should be celebrated for the life of the franchise.
 

BiteThisBurrows

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Why is that? 8 seems to be the consensus amount most people are speculating at and puts him as the 5th highest paid goalie between Sorokin and Saros when his extension kicks in.
He doesn't have the number of games in that those guys have. He's not as proven.

Goalies are weird. They have ups and downs. Swayman has never even had a full season workload as a #1. If you give him that sort of money you are taking a great leap into faith and hope. You might be right, but it's a huge risk and a lot of money you no longer have to spend. I love Swayman and I want him signed, but I think we could also win with Bussi, Korpisalo and a top forward we could pay that 8 million to as well. If Goalie Bob fixes Korpisalo we might even be better,

Swayman is the man I want signed, but overpaying is a recipe for long term failure.
 
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BruinDust

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They're up against it here. Played hardball with the kid last go 'round, and he put his nuts on the table and performed 10x over his pay grade.

I'm right there with you. 8 to 8 and a corter would be a solid deal. Up to 9 would be fine. Over 9 it gets dicey. Under 8 should be celebrated for the life of the franchise.

Even at 9+ it basically takes away a lot of the wiggle room for call-ups, etc. Puck Pedia has them at 8.6 million left but they have 14 forwards in the calculation, so add roughly another 800k with 13 F. Call it 9.4 in space with a 22 man roster including an unsigned Swayman.

The good news is neither side elected arbitration so I feel that is a positive sign that a deal will get done.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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He doesn't have the number of games in that those guys have. He's not as proven.

Goalies are weird. They have ups and downs. Swayman has never even had a full season workload as a #1. If you give him that sort of money you are taking a great leap into faith and hope. You might be right, but it's a huge risk and a lot of money you no longer have to spend. I love Swayman and I want him signed, but I think we could also win with Bussi, Korpisalo and a top forward we could pay that 8 million to as well. If Goalie Bob fixes Korpisalo we might even be better,

Swayman is the man I want signed, but overpaying is a recipe for long term failure.
how many NHL Games has Brandon Bussi played except pre-season even when Swayman or Ullmark weren't available as is the case in preseason....
 

BruinDust

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He doesn't have the number of games in that those guys have. He's not as proven.

Goalies are weird. They have ups and downs. Swayman has never even had a full season workload as a #1. If you give him that sort of money you are taking a great leap into faith and hope. You might be right, but it's a huge risk and a lot of money you no longer have to spend. I love Swayman and I want him signed, but I think we could also win with Bussi, Korpisalo and a top forward we could pay that 8 million to as well. If Goalie Bob fixes Korpisalo we might even be better,

Swayman is the man I want signed, but overpaying is a recipe for long term failure.

What has Sorokin done?

Those two contracts are way bigger risks than Swayman because of the ages they get into. I'll take the guy in his prime every single time.

You say not as proven. Swayman says I'm giving up more of my prime on a sharply rising cap.

A recipe for failure is screwing around with arguably the best homegrown goalie this franchise has had in the modern era.
 

Bruins4Lifer

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And Swayman's deal if at 8 years is eating up more of his prime years than either of Saros or Sorokin. Saros's deal takes him to age 38. Sorokin's deal takes him to 36. I wouldn't place money on either of them still being in the NHL when those contracts expire.

Swayman's deal if 8 years takes him through his age 26-33 seasons. Bruins would be buying 6 UFA years, nearly 75% of the contract. 26-33 for a goalie is basically their entire prime.

Then factor in a projected sharply rising salary cap.

8 years at 8.25 to me seems like a bit of a bargain.
Those are some good points. Though I do think Swayman still needing 2 more years to get to UFA and him being a bit less established than both Saros & Sorokin works against him and his contract value.

I don't think $8.25 makes him a bargain. I think that's more of the max he could get (2 RFA years @ $6M/yr + 6 UFA years @ $9M/yr = $8.25M/AAV).
 
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BruinDust

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Those are some good points. Though I do think Swayman still needing 2 more years to get to UFA and him being a bit less established than both Saros & Sorokin works against him and his contract value.

I don't think $8.25 makes him a bargain. I think that's more of the max he could get (2 RFA years @ $6M/yr + 6 UFA years @ $9M/yr = $8.25M/AAV).

I disagree with him being much less proven that Sorokin (who lost his starting job this year in the playoffs). We shouldn't act like Jussi Saros has some super-long history of top notch netminding either. This isn't Hasek or Roy in their primes here. He won't even see the end of that contract. They bought years he won't even be there for, either LTIR'd or bought out.

But him being a bargain is relative to the rising cap. Next year, it's market value.

Say in 2-3 years the cap is over 100 million and now he's a steal. This is a league where very soon we'll see skaters making 14-15 million a year. That's almost double Swayman at 8-8.5 million.

At the end of the day, it's an investment. Most of the time investing in a player for the prime years of their career is a solid investment. Historically in the salary cap era that has almost always been the case with a few exceptions. Look at Ottawa giving Jake Sanderson 8 million after 1 whole season. Pay for future performance, not the past. Every player carries a level of risk but if you believe in the player and that player performs up to the value of what you are paying him, then it shouldn't be an issue. The only bad contracts are those where the player isn't living up to his salary.

If I'm a team, I would much rather pay a guy for his best years than pay him later on when his best years are behind him like Nashville did with Saros.
 

Hookslide

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8x8.25 was my prediction months ago

People may not like it but after the Ullmark trade I think something starting with 8 became even more likely

at 8/8.25 I want more than 5 years I want the maximum contract length

To me the real questions are around
- no move coverage
- the allocation of base salary and signing bonus - a topic increasingly relevant with another potential lock-out looming in a couple of years
Look, I like Swayman as much as any of you but this is how a team get's itself in trouble, hw has not proven that he can handle a heavier load, although I think that he should be able to, he also has really put up the kind of numbe
 

TD Charlie

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Wouldn't it be funny if Swayman's agent looked at puckpedia.
"Hmmm, the B's currently have 8.64 mill in cap space. We'll take 8.6 for 7 years"

Seriously, I want the guy signed. I hope it gets done soon and for a fair value/term.
I'm not saying it's the end all be all negotiation tool, but I got to assume it factors in at times. Both sides will use ANYTHING as leverage. An argument of "you have the cash to spend, my guy is worth at least that, what is the hold up?" is really all that's needed here.
 
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RustyBruins72

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I'm fine with 8 years, I'd like somewhere around Saros' deal at $7.74 but I'd be happy with $8m. It's a risk, but in 5 years if he is who we all think and hope he is, that will be a steal of a deal.
 

Kegs

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I want him at 7mil x 8 but I feel like it’s going to be just a hair under 9 mil. Swaymans agent is a shark no?
 
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Fenian24

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He doesn't have the number of games in that those guys have. He's not as proven.

Goalies are weird. They have ups and downs. Swayman has never even had a full season workload as a #1. If you give him that sort of money you are taking a great leap into faith and hope. You might be right, but it's a huge risk and a lot of money you no longer have to spend. I love Swayman and I want him signed, but I think we could also win with Bussi, Korpisalo and a top forward we could pay that 8 million to as well. If Goalie Bob fixes Korpisalo we might even be better,

Swayman is the man I want signed, but overpaying is a recipe for long term failure.
The cap is going to continue to increase, especially with Arizona gone and Utah looking like a good market, 8 to 9M in 5 or 6 years will be a steal for a top 5 goalie.
 
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NDiesel

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I would much rather take the risk that he can handle a full load of games on an 8 year deal than to sign him to less years , he continues his amazing play for 4-6 years and then his next contract is higher and signed at 30+ years old.
 

Bruins4Lifer

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I disagree with him being much less proven that Sorokin (who lost his starting job this year in the playoffs). We shouldn't act like Jussi Saros has some super-long history of top notch netminding either. This isn't Hasek or Roy in their primes here. He won't even see the end of that contract. They bought years he won't even be there for, either LTIR'd or bought out.

But him being a bargain is relative to the rising cap. Next year, it's market value.

Say in 2-3 years the cap is over 100 million and now he's a steal. This is a league where very soon we'll see skaters making 14-15 million a year. That's almost double Swayman at 8-8.5 million.

At the end of the day, it's an investment. Most of the time investing in a player for the prime years of their career is a solid investment. Historically in the salary cap era that has almost always been the case with a few exceptions. Look at Ottawa giving Jake Sanderson 8 million after 1 whole season. Pay for future performance, not the past. Every player carries a level of risk but if you believe in the player and that player performs up to the value of what you are paying him, then it shouldn't be an issue. The only bad contracts are those where the player isn't living up to his salary.

If I'm a team, I would much rather pay a guy for his best years than pay him later on when his best years are behind him like Nashville did with Saros.
Prior to signing his big deal, Sorokin had two years where he established that he can handle a #1 role starting 52 and 60 games in a season and put up great numbers (.924 & .925 sv%). I really don't think there's much question to the fact that Sorokin was more proven and established than Swayman is now, who's only put up .914-.916 sv% when starting only half the games in a season.

Shouldn't the fact that Sorokin wavered a bit last season (at 28, in the middle of his prime) not give you pause to consider how much and for how long Swayman should be committed to?
 

Dr Quincy

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Look, I like Swayman as much as any of you but this is how a team get's itself in trouble, hw has not proven that he can handle a heavier load, although I think that he should be able to, he also has really put up the kind of numbe
Look, like every other player in the league, there's a price where you say "That's too much." But if the team wasn't sure about him being proven and potentially couldn't handle a heavier work load... then you don't trade away a $5m Vezina winner for a $3m poor backup.

Any hesitation on Swayman should've been considered and if there was any, you ride out Ullmark for 1 more year. Clearly they were very focused on trading Ullmark, so I'm guessing they are 100% sold on Swayman.
 
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BruinDust

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Prior to signing his big deal, Sorokin had two years where he established that he can handle a #1 role starting 52 and 60 games in a season and put up great numbers (.924 & .925 sv%). I really don't think there's much question to the fact that Sorokin was more proven and established than Swayman is now, who's only put up .914-.916 sv% when starting only half the games in a season.

Shouldn't the fact that Sorokin wavered a bit last season (at 28, in the middle of his prime) not give you pause to consider how much and for how long Swayman should be committed to?

Not for me personally. I believe in Swayman's ability.

There are people out there who believe he's the best 25-year old goaltender on planet earth. It's him or Oettinger depending on who you ask.
 
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