Player Discussion Jeff Skinner

Snippit

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Dec 5, 2012
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This has to be the most weird position to take. One player, a winger at that can take a team to the playoffs? The best goal scorer of the 00s aside from Ovy, Ilya Kovalchuk had 1 playoffs (where he got swept) his first 7 seasons. Connor McDavid, a future HoFer, 1 playoff apperance his first 4 years. 0 for Eichel. Taylor Hall, 1 appearance and hes pushing 30.

Skinner is having a bad season period. But he is 27. He will rebound. He is still an elite skater which is usually the most direct cause for a player to regress. I am not worried. He will still score 200+ goals over the life of the contract.

If Botts let Skinner walk last summer everyone would have blasted that idea. Botts and hopefully Kruger will be gone and the new coach and GM will give Skinner better linemates then a 30 point RWer and a career 40 point winger turned center. Is it that surprising that a high end 5v5 goal scorer who was always invisible on the PP struggles when his linemates are garbage?

Guarantee Sam would struggle to hit 50 points playing with Johansson and Sheary, Vesey or whatever shit winger is cycled in there.

I guarantee Sam would at least be out producing said line mates
 
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zenthusiast

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Oct 20, 2009
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Fair point

Counter point: If he's a complementary player, why, for the love of god, are we paying him 9M a year for 8 years and a full NMC?

I concede that our management sucks, and the contract looks pretty bad right now. I think it'll get much more palatable if they can right the ship with other players, but that's admittedly a big if.
 
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Archie Lee

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Apr 13, 2018
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This has to be the most weird position to take. One player, a winger at that can take a team to the playoffs? The best goal scorer of the 00s aside from Ovy, Ilya Kovalchuk had 1 playoffs (where he got swept) his first 7 seasons. Connor McDavid, a future HoFer, 1 playoff apperance his first 4 years. 0 for Eichel. Taylor Hall, 1 appearance and hes pushing 30.

Skinner is having a bad season period. But he is 27. He will rebound. He is still an elite skater which is usually the most direct cause for a player to regress. I am not worried. He will still score 200+ goals over the life of the contract.

If Botts let Skinner walk last summer everyone would have blasted that idea. Botts and hopefully Kruger will be gone and the new coach and GM will give Skinner better linemates then a 30 point RWer and a career 40 point winger turned center. Is it that surprising that a high end 5v5 goal scorer who was always invisible on the PP struggles when his linemates are garbage?

Guarantee Sam would struggle to hit 50 points playing with Johansson and Sheary, Vesey or whatever shit winger is cycled in there.


No. Not everyone.

Cap space is currency.

Signing a player to a bad contract is a bad idea. There are no circumstances where it is not.

This was a bad contract from the moment it was conceived.
 
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TehDoak

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This has to be the most weird position to take. One player, a winger at that can take a team to the playoffs? The best goal scorer of the 00s aside from Ovy, Ilya Kovalchuk had 1 playoffs (where he got swept) his first 7 seasons. Connor McDavid, a future HoFer, 1 playoff apperance his first 4 years. 0 for Eichel. Taylor Hall, 1 appearance and hes pushing 30.

Skinner is having a bad season period. But he is 27. He will rebound. He is still an elite skater which is usually the most direct cause for a player to regress. I am not worried. He will still score 200+ goals over the life of the contract.

If Botts let Skinner walk last summer everyone would have blasted that idea. Botts and hopefully Kruger will be gone and the new coach and GM will give Skinner better linemates then a 30 point RWer and a career 40 point winger turned center. Is it that surprising that a high end 5v5 goal scorer who was always invisible on the PP struggles when his linemates are garbage?

Guarantee Sam would struggle to hit 50 points playing with Johansson and Sheary, Vesey or whatever shit winger is cycled in there.

a few thoughts

if skinner walks last summer, jbotts would have been blasted sure. But we’d all be very happy when he underwhelmed this season that we didn’t sign him to an 8 year deal


And you are right, putting him with better players will get better results. But, and this is kind of the point, at the rate we are paying him, he shouldn’t fall off a cliff with bad teammates. A drop sure. But not from 40 goals 63 pts to what’s he on pace for 15 goals?

it was a bad deal when we signed and it’s a huge franchising crushing anchor when his play drops off like this.
 

CrazyMonkey1208

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Apr 9, 2012
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I don't know why everyone is mad at the contract,the guy scored 40 goals last season. It was either pay up or he walks, so I have no problem paying up. The problem isn't the contract, it's that he hasn't scored a goal in 2 1/2 months. If you told me on October 1st 2019 that skinner would oy have what, 11 goals by mid-February I would have laughed in your face. Hindsight is always 20/20
 

Jim Bob

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I don't know why everyone is mad at the contract,the guy scored 40 goals last season. It was either pay up or he walks, so I have no problem paying up. The problem isn't the contract, it's that he hasn't scored a goal in 2 1/2 months. If you told me on October 1st 2019 that skinner would oy have what, 11 goals by mid-February I would have laughed in your face. Hindsight is always 20/20

He has always been streaky and his 40 goals was based on a career high shooting% that some people knew wasn't sustainable.

I knew that this contract was going to be regrettable even before it was signed. I just never expected that it would be so regrettable, so soon.

Skinner should be better than this away from Eichel & Reinhart. But, since he hasn't been, Ralph should be giving him ice time with one, or both, of those guys, IMO.
 

CrazyMonkey1208

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He has always been streaky and his 40 goals was based on a career high shooting% that some people knew wasn't sustainable.

I knew that this contract was going to be regrettable even before it was signed. I just never expected that it would be so regrettable, so soon.

Skinner should be better than this away from Eichel & Reinhart. But, since he hasn't been, Ralph should be giving him ice time with one, or both, of those guys, IMO.
That's the other part of it, he's under a poor coach at the moment. True that he's streaky but I think most people,myself included, figured paired with Eichel he'd be good for at least around 25-30 goals a season.
 

Jim Bob

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That's the other part of it, he's under a poor coach at the moment. True that he's streaky but I think most people,myself included, figured paired with Eichel he'd be good for at least around 25-30 goals a season.

He was able to be a 25-30 goal scorer with less than stellar linemates in Carolina.

The biggest issue right now is that his shooting% has gone from a career high last season (14.9%) to a career low this season (7.3%).

He's also getting less ice time and hard deployments this year. His oZS% is the lowest of his career, as well.

So all in all, part of this is on the player and part of this is on the coach, IMO.
 
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Aladyyn

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He was able to be a 25-30 goal scorer with less than stellar linemates in Carolina.

The biggest issue right now is that his shooting% has gone from a career high last season (14.9%) to a career low this season (7.3%).

He's also getting less ice time and hard deployments this year. His oZS% is the lowest of his career, as well.

So all in all, part of this is on the player and part of this is on the coach, IMO.
What part of it is on the player?
 

Jim Bob

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What part of it is on the player?

I have to think that a player does have some control over their own performance, especially in the midst of a dry spell likes he's struggling through right now.

It is like saying that Hutton has no ownership to take with respect to his struggles this season.

I can't buy that.
 
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TehDoak

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He was able to be a 25-30 goal scorer with less than stellar linemates in Carolina.

The biggest issue right now is that his shooting% has gone from a career high last season (14.9%) to a career low this season (7.3%).

He's also getting less ice time and hard deployments this year. His oZS% is the lowest of his career, as well.

So all in all, part of this is on the player and part of this is on the coach, IMO.

What part of it is on the player?

@Jim Bob Is right that it doesn't ALL fall on Skinner. He DOES have shitty linemates and he's being deployed in a less in the Ozone. But, a drop from 40 goals to his career average (just under 30 goals) would be fine. A drop to under 15 goals? That's on skinner.
 
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Chainshot

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All of the excuses from Marty this morning about getting marginal contributions from Johansson on LW or the 8 ESG from Olofsson instead of putting Jeff back with Jack or even trying him with Larry at all.

I hate that I agree with the guys on GR. :facepalm:
 

Chainshot

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I have to think that a player does have some control over their own performance, especially in the midst of a dry spell likes he's struggling through right now.

It is like saying that Hutton has no ownership to take with respect to his struggles this season.

I can't buy that.

His high danger shots are down. That's got to be partially on him not getting inside enough. He was a demon on the forecheck the other night, right up to when he took the offensive zone penalty. Get inside more, stop taking O-zone penalties.

@Jim Bob Is right that it doesn't ALL fall on Skinner. He DOES have shitty linemates and he's being deployed in a less in the Ozone. But, a drop from 40 goals to his career average (just under 30 goals) would be fine. A drop to under 15 goals? That's on skinner.

I would like them to try to get him going. We know that he's had success with Jack, but the team and some of their water bearers are talking about Olofsson and Johansson staying in their roles rather than optimizing the LW with the history of ESG production. They refuse to put him with Jack and they refuse to reunite him with Larsson who he's shown shoot generation and shot suppression benefits with. So... I don't know what the f*** is going on with the front office of this team but they continue to not find ways to optimize their lineup and even seem avid in how they entrench in the opposite fashion. It happened with Housley, it's happening with Ralph.

And for a guy who has no issue putting his defensemen in the blender shift-to-shift, the obstinate refusal to try to get him going after making that ridiculous investment is just another in the dubious decisions of the people running the team.
 

OkimLom

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May 3, 2010
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And now the Instigators are carrying the 2C water as "needed" to make Skinner go. W...T...F...

Man, I can't believe past management allowed our team to go through so many years of not having a 2C in place for Botterill to build a winner with. Do they have ANY idea how hard it is to find a 2C? I mean, you can be like Pittsburgh and draft two franchise centerman that would anchor your top 6 center roles for years but who has the stomach for that.
 

stokes84

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Jun 30, 2008
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a few thoughts

if skinner walks last summer, jbotts would have been blasted sure. But we’d all be very happy when he underwhelmed this season that we didn’t sign him to an 8 year deal


And you are right, putting him with better players will get better results. But, and this is kind of the point, at the rate we are paying him, he shouldn’t fall off a cliff with bad teammates. A drop sure. But not from 40 goals 63 pts to what’s he on pace for 15 goals?

it was a bad deal when we signed and it’s a huge franchising crushing anchor when his play drops off like this.

FWIW, I was extremely pro-trade him at the deadline because not trading him put us in a desperate situation where we had to sign him and had no leverage. And here we are.
 

FormerSabresFan

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Sep 14, 2015
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I think it's just a combination of everything why the drop-off is so big - below career avg. shooting %, bad year, bad luck, bad coach, bad linemates, and probably gripping the stick too tight because of the big contract he just signed.

Combine all that and this is what we get.

That said, I could totally see him having a big bounce back year next season, especially if he has some new team mates to fill out his line. (new GM and new coach too ideally)

Frankly, I'm more concerned with getting rid of our idiot GM, and finding a 2C and starting goalie to be too concerned with an off year from Skinner.

If he doesn't get back to 25-30 goals next season I'll start to get very worried though.
 

sabremike

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Aug 30, 2010
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I love the idea that the coach goes "Hey, pairing Jack and Jeff was about the only thing that worked last season. Let's break it up!" and when Jeff's production falls off a cliff playing with horrible players he gets blamed for everything, not Soccer Motivational Speaker Guy.
 

OkimLom

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May 3, 2010
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a few thoughts

if skinner walks last summer, jbotts would have been blasted sure. But we’d all be very happy when he underwhelmed this season that we didn’t sign him to an 8 year deal


And you are right, putting him with better players will get better results. But, and this is kind of the point, at the rate we are paying him, he shouldn’t fall off a cliff with bad teammates. A drop sure. But not from 40 goals 63 pts to what’s he on pace for 15 goals?

it was a bad deal when we signed and it’s a huge franchising crushing anchor when his play drops off like this.

The worst part about all this, is that they did NOTHING to help the player get back on track, especially when we had one of our better goal scorers go out with an injury.

There is nothing useful about the coaching staff and management in this organization. We wonder why we don't have good development and why we have no prospects to speak about, when you see the organization absolutely fail at anything to help the players out. Once again, we are going into another offseason where we need to clean the WHOLE house otherwise we will continue to sink lower and lower.

Krueger's reaction to Howard Simon, of all people, is an absolute Stadium-sized RED FLAG to me. It's this unwarranted arrogance that they feel they know better when he has barely produced average results in his career as a coach. I gave him the benefit of the doubt about Reinhart being used as a winger because of Botterill's comments, but if these two morons have the same evaluation abilities and come to the same result about that player and both are as stubborn to be flexible, count me as someone who is wanting Ralph gone by the end of the year.
 

Fezzy126

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May 10, 2017
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All of the excuses from Marty this morning about getting marginal contributions from Johansson on LW or the 8 ESG from Olofsson instead of putting Jeff back with Jack or even trying him with Larry at all.

I hate that I agree with the guys on GR. :facepalm:

The bolded part is what gets me. Here's a list of the Sabres top goal scorers at ES, would Olofsson's overall team impact be much different in a bottom 6 role? One could argue he might be more impactful on a different line given how much Jack is shooting this year, he'd probably get to touch the puck a bit more.

upload_2020-2-20_11-3-8.png


And in case you're wondering, no this list is not filtered for forwards only.
 

Royisgone

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Mar 7, 2012
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Has this been posted yet? Marty on with Howard and Jeremy this morning?

Marty blasted Skinner pretty hard; not working hard enough; doesn't deserve to be playing with Eichel; that should be a reward when he plays harder and stops taking stupid penalties.

02-20 Marty Biron
 

Fjordy

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Jun 20, 2018
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When will Marty blasted Krueger and Botterill? They deserve it no less than Skinner, and even more.
 
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sabremike

#1 Tageaholic
Aug 30, 2010
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Has this been posted yet? Marty on with Howard and Jeremy this morning?

Marty blasted Skinner pretty hard; not working hard enough; doesn't deserve to be playing with Eichel; that should be a reward when he plays harder and stops taking stupid penalties.

02-20 Marty Biron
If putting him with Jack causes him to go on a tear and causes us to win games who gives a flying fig about if he "deserves" to be on Jack's line?
 
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Royisgone

Registered User
Mar 7, 2012
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When will Marty blasted Krueger and Botterill? They deserve it no less than Skinner, and even more.

Do not bite the hand that feeds you! Marty is in the employ of the Sabres and blasting management (or ownership) is something entirely different to blasting a player.

I totally agree with you, by the way.

They should all be blasted.
 

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