Confirmed with Link: Jeff Skinner -- Bought Out 6/29/24

[GrierIsGod123]

It feels mind boggling to see how many people just don’t factor his play into the decision. Let’s make it easy. Do you want Skinner in your top six? He fell out of it for a reason. And we’ve all seen what he does (or doesn’t do) playing down the lineup. Not only does he bring his negative defense, consistent turnovers and fear of contact with him…he also stops scoring. You can’t play him on the PP. You can’t play him in the bottom six. You want him on a scoring line knowing he’s another year older and when he isn’t scoring is one of the worst players in the league?

This is where I'm at. I'm done watching a team with Skinner at the top of the lineup. We know what that is capable of, and it's far from good enough.

We've also seen that he's no longer capable of driving a line like he was some years ago. Therefore, I do not want to see him in our Bottom 6, which badly needs to be re-imagined with actual role players and defensively capable lines.

There's simply no way to fit Skinner into a team trying to improve overall. I don't care whether it is a buyout or trade, just move on and start the next chapter.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

The point is to build a roster capable of making the playoffs. Jeff Skinner does not fit into that plan.

He can sit in the stands or barely play without jeopardizing future cap. If you are buying him out, you better be all in this season. That's all I am saying. Buying Skinner out and then being at $80 M cap would make little sense unless you are trying to save real money. I am NOT saying they are. Proof will be if buyout happens and final cap number. It's a guessing game right now.

 

[Jacob582]

He can sit in the stands or barely play without jeopardizing future cap. If you are buying him out, you better be all in this season. That's all I am saying. Buying Skinner out and then being at $80 M cap would make little sense unless you are trying to save real money. I am NOT saying they are. Proof will be if buyout happens and final cap number. It's a guessing game right now.

Or you don't want his influence on the other young players.

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

He can sit in the stands or barely play without jeopardizing future cap. If you are buying him out, you better be all in this season. That's all I am saying. Buying Skinner out and then being at $80 M cap would make little sense unless you are trying to save real money. I am NOT saying they are. Proof will be if buyout happens and final cap number. It's a guessing game right now.

If you're putting him as an extra forward, those guys usually end up filling in on the 4th line when there are injuries ahead. Again, Skinner doesn't work there.

 

[CrazyWayne]

If buying him out causes the sabres to have cap casualties a couple years down the road because the team is good......sign me up I'll take being good again in a heartbeat

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Or you don't want his influence on the other young players.

I don't buy into the room and all that crap. I have had four years of a great room and the fantastic influence of Kyle Okposo, which amounted to nothing. I'm not 100% against buying out Skinner but it has to have a purpose. If the plan is to be 100% all-in and spend to the cap 2024-25, it could make sense. It wouldn't be my call but that would justify it. To get him out of town, just for the sake of it? I'll pass. It's a long year, and Skinner can probably add something here and there once you forget about the ridiculous salary.

 

[Uberpecker]

Can you guys be careful with these bumps, please?
Almost got a heart attack because I thought for a moment he got re-signed for another eight years.

 

[Dreakon13]

On the one hand, seeing this thread bumped kinda scared me.

On the other...

8 more years! 8 more years! Get that kid a new contract. Maybe some more money will get those legs going again.

 

[TehDoak]

I don't buy into the room and all that crap. I have had four years of a great room and the fantastic influence of Kyle Okposo, which amounted to nothing. I'm not 100% against buying out Skinner but it has to have a purpose. If the plan is to be 100% all-in and spend to the cap 2024-25, it could make sense. It wouldn't be my call but that would justify it. To get him out of town, just for the sake of it? I'll pass. It's a long year, and Skinner can probably add something here and there once you forget about the ridiculous salary.

Eh. There is something to be said about a pleasant work environment. But the problem was the culture they put in place was one that was OK with losing.

But, I think the big problem with the room (and specifically Skinner) was a lack of accountability.

Skinner got a free pass nearly the entire season for blowing the d-zone and never back checking. It took months to get him to the 3rd line.

Teams need full buy in. Skinner just isn't that guy. And he's not going to work under Ruff.

 

[jc17]

Early post from this thread might be one of the funniest all-time considering what was to come for those two, the team, and frankly the world.

 

[HaNotsri]

Has anyone considered it could have been worse?

This was back in 2019 before the world ended.

First Krueger now Skinner.
What’s the next good news we expect?

The sad irony of this post, I'm dying
(The neck snap maybe?)

 

[Beerz]

I liked how Botterill dropped Tage Thompson name in with the likes of Eichel,Skinner, and Dahlin as reasons to be excited.... this guy is going to die on that hill.

@HaNotsri I already ate my crow on this

 

[HaNotsri]

@HaNotsri I already ate my crow on this

I've discovered that I'm a total sociopath and avoid posting when the big news hit. I bet I even hedged my bets in the Byram/Mitts trade. The other possible explanation is that I've been so brutally confused by the moves that I cannot post.

 

[sabremike]

@HaNotsri I already ate my crow on this

 

[Jim Bob]

OK, I can live with my initial thoughts on the deal.

 

[BFLO]

I don't buy into the room and all that crap. I have had four years of a great room and the fantastic influence of Kyle Okposo, which amounted to nothing. I'm not 100% against buying out Skinner but it has to have a purpose. If the plan is to be 100% all-in and spend to the cap 2024-25, it could make sense. It wouldn't be my call but that would justify it. To get him out of town, just for the sake of it? I'll pass. It's a long year, and Skinner can probably add something here and there once you forget about the ridiculous salary.

The room has not been good the last 4 years. Okposo was a pathetic joke of a captain.

Adams shipped out everyone who hated losing, and kept all of the guys who don't mind losing, to get rid of any friction in the locker room.

A locker room without any friction on a team that isn't winning is a bad locker room.

And Jeff Skinner is the poster child of having a positive attitude in the face of losing. The dude couldn't be happier, win or lose. He's happy to be getting paid $9m a year to live within 90 minutes of home and cherry pick on the ice while adding almost nothing else. Measuring his own career in goals, all the while the number of lost games and losing seasons without a playoff berth continue to pile up on his resume.



edit: unrelated to the above. It's funny to go through the old posts in this thread. Only a few years ago so many regular posters were defending Skinner tooth and nail against any and all criticism. "He's only overpaid $1-1.5mm aav"

And now here we are 2 years later and the vast majority are on board with buying him out.

 

[Fezzy126]

At the end of the season I was in full "get this dude off the team" mode. But since I've cooled down a bit I've been trying to do a deeper dive on Skinner.

Just looking at the raw numbers, while Skinner was a drag on xG numbers, he was still one of the biggest net positives on the team in 5v5 on-ice goal differential:

Looking at individual numbers, he was still 4th in individual goals, and points.

So while it's popular to concentrate on the warts and embrace the addition by subtraction mind set, it's important to understand that this level of individual and on-ice production will not be easily replaced.

Lastly, I took some time to to see if there was an impact to his numbers before and after any reported injuries. A lot of people commented that he wasn't the same after he got his bell rung by Mackinnon. But what many might not remember is that Skinner was actually injured about a month later against Seattle. That second injury was misreported by many as an upper body injury, but it appears that it was actually a lower body injury, which actually makes sense because a number of us commented on his poor skating down the stretch.

Back to the numbers, I didn't see a big change in GA or xGA numbers, so I just graphed his on-ice xGF numbers:

There was definitely a huge drop off following that Seattle game. His individual GF and xGF also fell off after that Seattle game as well.

Was it actually an injury or was it an age-related drop off? I'm not comfortable saying one over the other, but the narrative around Skinner and his contract is eerily similar to when Krueger was head coach here. For that reason I'm not going to fall victim to recency bias and would lean towards keeping him on the roster for another year. If his play continues to be a drag then a buy-out or trade becomes much more palatable next off season.

 

[Fjordy]

I think the problem is not only his performance down, it's just the player himself. And partly places in the lineup. If Skinner stays another year, it won't be a disaster, he might even be productive. Let's see what Lindy and Adams think about that.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

The room has not been good the last 4 years. Okposo was a pathetic joke of a captain.

Adams shipped out everyone who hated losing, and kept all of the guys who don't mind losing, to get rid of any friction in the locker room.

A locker room without any friction on a team that isn't winning is a bad locker room.

And Jeff Skinner is the poster child of having a positive attitude in the face of losing. The dude couldn't be happier, win or lose. He's happy to be getting paid $9m a year to live within 90 minutes of home and cherry pick on the ice while adding almost nothing else. Measuring his own career in goals, all the while the number of lost games and losing seasons without a playoff berth continue to pile up on his resume.



edit: unrelated to the above. It's funny to go through the old posts in this thread. Only a few years ago so many regular posters were defending Skinner tooth and nail against any and all criticism. "He's only overpaid $1-1.5mm aav"

And now here we are 2 years later and the vast majority are on board with buying him out.

I don't disagree with anything you have said here. The issue with Skinner is the buyout boxes us in a bit this year. Personally, I think the Sabres are just playing hardball to get him to waive his contract. I have also had zero problems with him sitting in the stands for loads of games this year if he doesn't play the way Ruff wants. Tension isn't the end of the world.

 

[Gabrielor]

The thing I don't like about the Skinner buyout talk is that if Adams doesn't use the space it opens immediately, I'm mentally ready to give up on this team, because buying out Skinner is 100% short term benefit, and creates long term issues when our window is really supposed to be open.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Eh. There is something to be said about a pleasant work environment. But the problem was the culture they put in place was one that was OK with losing.

But, I think the big problem with the room (and specifically Skinner) was a lack of accountability.

Skinner got a free pass nearly the entire season for blowing the d-zone and never back checking. It took months to get him to the 3rd line.

Teams need full buy in. Skinner just isn't that guy. And he's not going to work under Ruff.

Pleasant work environments that are too pleasant leave everyone just going through the motions. I would like to see Ruff with one season of Skinner unless he agrees to move NMC. And not the Krueger nonsense that didn't feel professional. Just Ruff playing hardball on checking and going to the net. Ruff had guys who didn't play much D, but those same players had full buy-in on the other end of the ice, fighting for every scrap of space. No one is going to tell me Danny Briere played a 200 foot game. But Briere was just tenacious on O. Skinner is not. Sometimes, he can be. Sometimes isn't good enough.

 

[Fjordy]

The thing I don't like about the Skinner buyout talk is that if Adams doesn't use the space it opens immediately, I'm mentally ready to give up on this team, because buying out Skinner is 100% short term benefit, and creates long term issues when our window is really supposed to be open.

Do you think KA will buy Skinner and give his spot to Kulich/Savoie, and our 3C will be Krebs?

I think he will add a top 6 forward, 3C and some more forwards for the bottom 6. Not sure if there will be any changes in defense, maybe just better depth.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

At the end of the season I was in full "get this dude off the team" mode. But since I've cooled down a bit I've been trying to do a deeper dive on Skinner.

Just looking at the raw numbers, while Skinner was a drag on xG numbers, he was still one of the biggest net positives on the team in 5v5 on-ice goal differential:

View attachment 884738

Looking at individual numbers, he was still 4th in individual goals, and points.
View attachment 884740

So while it's popular to concentrate on the warts and embrace the addition by subtraction mind set, it's important to understand that this level of individual and on-ice production will not be easily replaced.

Lastly, I took some time to to see if there was an impact to his numbers before and after any reported injuries. A lot of people commented that he wasn't the same after he got his bell rung by Mackinnon. But what many might not remember is that Skinner was actually injured about a month later against Seattle. That second injury was misreported by many as an upper body injury, but it appears that it was actually a lower body injury, which actually makes sense because a number of us commented on his poor skating down the stretch.

View attachment 884744

Back to the numbers, I didn't see a big change in GA or xGA numbers, so I just graphed his on-ice xGF numbers:

View attachment 884743

There was definitely a huge drop off following that Seattle game. His individual GF and xGF also fell off after that Seattle game as well.

Was it actually an injury or was it an age-related drop off? I'm not comfortable saying one over the other, but the narrative around Skinner and his contract is eerily similar to when Krueger was head coach here. For that reason I'm not going to fall victim to recency bias and would lean towards keeping him on the roster for another year. If his play continues to be a drag then a buy-out or trade becomes much more palatable next off season.

Ya, I’m really not sure what the logic is here besides “burn the witch”. Pegula gets to save money while pretending it’s a hockey move- we’d likely enter the season with a hole there, maybe we sign a Drake Caggiula or somethin to fill the gap and say “we tried really hard, the market wasn’t right”.

Meanwhile Skinner moves off to Toronto and becomes our worst enemy-everyone seems to play better after leaving Buffalo, and instead of addressing that we’re scapegoating Jeff. You know he scores 60+ points easily over there and probably magically plays better overall as well.

Now we’re down Mitts and Skinner, and who have we added on offense? Hypothetical players, with money we’ve always had and have never been willing to use. Sure.

 

[Gabrielor]

Do you think KA will buy Skinner and give his spot to Kulich/Savoie, and our 3C will be Krebs?

I think he will add a top 6 forward, 3C and some more forwards for the bottom 6. Not sure if there will be any changes in defense, maybe just better depth.

To this point, we have, on record, 3 trades in 4 years that have directly impacted their NHL roster.

Eichel trade (Tuch, Krebs)
Greenway
Byram


The rest is either futures to be determined, stuff for free (future considerations, which he's does 6 times!) or ahl/minor asset shuffling.

He has no track record of making big, important NHL roster trades, so until does, I'm skeptical that a Skinner buyout wouldn't just be 'well, I failed to complete a trade once again, guess we'll hope Kulich,Rosen,Savoie are ready...', which is what he did last year when Quinn got hurt.

 

[Jim Bob]

View attachment 884763

To this point, we have, on record, 3 trades in 4 years that have directly impacted their NHL roster.

Eichel trade (Tuch, Krebs)
Greenway
Byram


The rest is either futures to be determined, stuff for free (future considerations, which he's does 6 times!) or ahl/minor asset shuffling.

He has no track record of making big, important NHL roster trades, so until does, I'm skeptical that a Skinner buyout wouldn't just be 'well, I failed to complete a trade once again, guess we'll hope Kulich,Rosen,Savoie are ready...', which is what he did last year when Quinn got hurt.

Kevyn needs to "play out of character."

The question is whether he can actually do it or not.