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Player Discussion Jeff Gorton

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AKA Chief said:
Gorton's resume in the NHL overall is good...but as GM of the Rangers, it's way too early to make any judgment. If you're going to go back to before he was named GM, then I think the results are just as inconclusive.

As GM he has what looks to be a real good trade in getting Zibs and a bad move with Staal. I could give him credit for acquiring B. Smith last year, but I think the contract extension makes that a wash. Grabner was a great UFA signing for a limited time. Shattenkirk, I really like, but he's a defensive liability and not sure he's a Dman you need to rely on as a steadying vet presence during a rebuild. Still, Gorts got him to a cap-friendly cap hit.

And let's not forget that part of the reason this season went down the tubes was trading Stepan and not finding an adequate C to fill out the roster. Letting Lindberg go to Vegas didn't help either. There were options. Centers like Schenn, Backes, Turris, and Duchene all moved to new teams.

It's Gorton's team and I hope the upcoming drafts bare fruit. Hopefully, one or two of the prospects he acquired makes an impact. I still have issues with the McD trade because I don't think Namestnikov is an upgrade over Miller. If Tatar fetched a 1st, 2nd and 3rd, and Hartmen brought back a 1st in a package, couldn't Miller have fetched a 1st round pick all by himself? The only thing we know for sure about the McD trade is that it makes the Rangers a weaker team (i.e., helps us tank). I hope it works!
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I always try to remind myself that a GM always knows what's behind the curtain. That's why I don't overanalyze the moves they make. If Miller had issues, JG knows what they were. Depending in what they are affects the price. Just remember all of the players that have come through here and how many times you heard about their problems while they were playing. It doesn't happen. So Kevin Stevens is a full on crack monster but nobody says a word. Theo Fleury is living the life of a derelict and it's cool as long as he shows up for the faceoff...
I liked Lindberg a lot but I think to lament his loss is premature. If you protected him you probably lost Grabner. No Grabner no Rykov? Is that his name and no 2nd round pick. Those guys could make this one of the great deals in history. You just don't knowvyet.
 
tailgunner said:
why don't you do yourself a favor and check out all the highlights of the 14 and 15 playoffs and examine who was in on all the big goals that were scored in those 2 playoff runs...you will be amazed by how Hagelin was involved in all those big game winning goals and overtime goals. and then check out the 16 playoffs and see what Hags did to us in game 3 at MSG ...then talk to me
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not sure how to really talk to someone who considers the Hagelin trade worse than the Ridley/Miller trade.
 
Hagelin was a cap dump. You can complain about it all you want but no team is going to give up good assets for a player we could not sign due to the cap. Etem for Hagelin is what you get for a camp dump. That was not a bad trade by Gorton. It was bad cap management leading up to that off-season by Sather

Reasons Hagelin's trade value was low:
- 3rd line winger
- RFA
- Rangers cap situation*



* If fans can figure out the Rangers don't have the cap space to re-sign Hagelin using capfriendly.com, you can bet your ass GMs in the league know it as well. Why would any GM give up premium assets for that? Unless there was a bidding war, but this was a 3rd line winger with limited offensive upside.
 
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True Blue said:
not sure how to really talk to someone who considers the Hagelin trade worse than the Ridley/Miller trade.
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nice way to avoid the question....did you look at the highlights from the 14 and 15 playoffs ?
did you see how marty st Louis scored in OT against the Habs in game 4 ? did you see who scored in OT against the Pens in game 5 at MSG....no let's just worry about the miller/ ridley trade when the Rangers were in last place when they made that bad deal 3 decades ago...I don't remember miller and ridley scoring huge playoff goals for a last place Rangers team 3 decades ago. and yes we all know it was a cap dump but why dump him Hags? if you need to shed salary, dump somebody else who you do not need...not Hags who literally single handly won you 5 playoff series in 2 seasons...
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
Hagelin was a cap dump. You can complain about it all you want but no team is going to give up good assets for a player we could not sign due to the cap. Etem for Hagelin is what you get for a camp dump. That was not a bad trade by Gorton. It was bad cap management leading up to that off-season by Sather

Reasons Hagelin's trade value was low:
- 3rd line winger
- RFA
- Rangers cap situation*



* If fans can figure out the Rangers don't have the cap space to re-sign Hagelin using capfriendly.com, you can bet your ass GMs in the league know it as well. Why would any GM give up premium assets for that? Unless there was a bidding war, but this was a 3rd line winger with limited offensive upside.
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no kidding ??? really it was cap dump? wow tell me something I do not know...so if the Pens needs to dump salary should they trade Crosby to Anaheim for an Uber taxi driver? when you need to shed salary to fit under the cap you find a way to dump players you can do without...not Hags who was without a doubt THE best forward in the 14 and 15 playoff runs.
 
tailgunner said:
nice way to avoid the question....did you look at the highlights from the 14 and 15 playoffs ?
did you see how marty st Louis scored in OT against the Habs in game 4 ? did you see who scored in OT against the Pens in game 5 at MSG....no let's just worry about the miller/ ridley trade when the Rangers were in last place when they made that bad deal 3 decades ago...I don't remember miller and ridley scoring huge playoff goals for a last place Rangers team 3 decades ago. and yes we all know it was a cap dump but why dump him Hags? if you need to shed salary, dump somebody else who you do not need...not Hags who literally single handly won you 5 playoff series in 2 seasons...
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tailgunner said:
no kidding ??? really it was cap dump? wow tell me something I do not know...so if the Pens needs to dump salary should they trade Crosby to Anaheim for an Uber taxi driver? when you need to shed salary to fit under the cap you find a way to dump players you can do without...not Hags who was without a doubt THE best forward in the 14 and 15 playoff runs.
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Wow Carl didn't realize you posted here. How's Pittsburgh?
 
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Pittsburgh is beautiful since the Rangers did not want me anymore and I wound up winning 2 Stanley Cups in a hillbilly town
 
JohnC said:
I’m actually starting to come around on the Hags trade being a bad one. His 8 goals on the season would’ve helped fortify the tank.
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he is done as a player now for sure no one denies that...that's not the issue here
 
The Hagelin thing has been beaten to death. We got a 2nd for a depth player we didn't have money for and who's play fell off a cliff shortly after the trade. That's fine value. The 2nd didn't work out, which makes it look like a terrible deal. That's kind of how 2nds go - sometimes you get a steal, sometimes you get a depth player, sometimes you get nothing.
 
haveandare said:
The Hagelin thing has been beaten to death. We got a 2nd for a depth player we didn't have money for and who's play fell off a cliff shortly after the trade. That's fine value. The 2nd didn't work out, which makes it look like a terrible deal. That's kind of how 2nds go - sometimes you get a steal, sometimes you get a depth player, sometimes you get nothing.
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Pretty much this. Im not crying over the loss of a role player like Hagelin, but that summer was rough with getting appropriate value back on both Hagelin and Talbot. It was mishandled, but only slightly so. Not enough for this clusterf*** of an argument.
 
This franchise has traded much better players for worse value, and trading Carl Hagelin is the worst trade of all time? Sheesh.
 
tailgunner said:
no kidding ??? really it was cap dump? wow tell me something I do not know...so if the Pens needs to dump salary should they trade Crosby to Anaheim for an Uber taxi driver? when you need to shed salary to fit under the cap you find a way to dump players you can do without...not Hags who was without a doubt THE best forward in the 14 and 15 playoff runs.
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imagine comparing Carl Hagelin to Sidney Crosby.

also TIL, MSL wasn't a forward on the 2013-2014 NYR and Brassard wasn't on the 2015 team amongst others.
 
haveandare said:
The 2nd didn't work out, which makes it look like a terrible deal.
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Ryan Gropp is 21 years old. He'll be 22 in September. He's not producing points at a great clip in the AHL, but to say the 2nd "didn't work" when the player is in his 1st pro season is very premature.

Could he be another Adam Tambellini? Sure could, but I'd like to see him at least go back to the AHL as a 22 year old and see what he does there.
 
LiasAndersson said:
imagine comparing Carl Hagelin to Sidney Crosby.

also TIL, MSL wasn't a forward on the 2013-2014 NYR and Brassard wasn't on the 2015 team amongst others.
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what on earth on you smoking???
MSL was on the Rangers until he retired in the summer of 2015
Brassard was a Ranger until the summer of 2016
 
mrjimmyg89 said:
Ryan Gropp is 21 years old. He'll be 22 in September. He's not producing points at a great clip in the AHL, but to say the 2nd "didn't work" when the player is in his 1st pro season is very premature.

Could he be another Adam Tambellini? Sure could, but I'd like to see him at least go back to the AHL as a 22 year old and see what he does there.
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Ok, didn't work out so far. The point is getting that pick for Hags isn't bad. Whether the pick works out or not will color the perception of the deal, but at the time that player for that pick was fine value.
 
So watching Gorton's presser before the game, he discussed possibly trading some picks for players who can contribute now. I'm curious what kind of guys he might be looking at.
 
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