Player Discussion Jeff Gorton
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Not disagreeing with you at all but before Staals injury I could never foresee him dropping off like this. Marc Staal for a 3rd round pick?! and most of us would drive him to the airport.
We saw the writing on the wall when the players quit playing for Renney, we saw the same with Torts and now we are seeing the same with AV. Another day in paradise.
No, Lundqvist is entering the bottom side of his career. The King has played a lot of hockey on the big stage prior to the NHL far more than people realize. The Rangers ie...Sather AND Groton have been in a win mode now because of Lundqvist, and rightfully so. That Win now window projection was suppossed to last 2 3 more years, maybe even four. If Lundqvist is coming from best player in the world to just a great goalie that can stand on his head and steal a series now and than what is the sense of keeping him if the Rangers need to rebuild. We could go into this bottomless pit cycle of trying to patch holes to win now the next 3 or 4 years knowing that it's not possible and giving away assets and have nothing at all to show for it, than it's 97'-04' all over again. The next few weeks to 3 months are going to shape the next 5 years of this franchise.
TheTakedown
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TheTakedown
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I'd be inclined to agree at that point, which means Hank would have to be traded... Where does he go? Who has that cap space?
I'm not advocating trading hank... I think a retool can be done in as little as a season if done correctly and the right players are sent off. Gorton will need to use his magic wand, and AV is going to have to learn to trust some of these younger guys, and stop confiding in vets that are essentially over the hill.
Agreed. Last thing we need is Gorton to start trading younger players for Vets that may or may not work. It's just blindly throwing Darts hoping for a bulls eye and that's how the dark times begin. You have to know when to cut the cord on this current group and say to yourself okay, we were close but didn't make it what can we do to get back to this level again without gutting the future of the franchise. Because make no mistake about it this goes beyond the team, this is a franchise decision. You have to wonder if Groton had an exit plan.
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Gorton got his position, but it came with the price tag of having one hand tied behind his back for a few years. Sather's swing for the fences moves have deprives the organization of cap space and draft picks. The team is on the other side of a rapidly closing window.
I give him time. It will take several year's of sound drafting, not depleting the farm and riding it out until there is cap room flexibility.
TheTakedown
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This is true... With the way Sather left this team, we're in for a down year...
I'm seeing some very eerie similarities to the Bruins past couple years here... Stanley cup in 2010-11 season, out in the 1st round in 2011-12, Stanley cup final in 2012-13, presidents trophy in 2013-14, missed the playoffs in 2014-15...
Rangers looks like this:
ECF in 2011-12, out in the 2nd round in 2012-13, Stanley Cup Final in 2013-14, ECF in 2014-15.... we could easily miss the playoffs with the way management has built this team...
Personally, I give Gorton a pass this year--we were due for a regression after all the players we lost with the runs listed above. That said, 2015-16 should be written off and forgotten if we're out of playoff position by the deadline, and honestly I'm OK with missing the playoffs this year... Getting a 1st rounder back for 2016 would be a huge refreshment to the farm and the potential roster, especially If we can luck out with a player similar to Pastrnak (remember, Boston picked him at #29 in the 2013 draft, and he took a full time spot half way through the next season)
Beyond that, I'd let Gorton take this team into his full control for the next 3 years and THEN reevaluate where he's at. Give him a chance to infuse Buch, Skjei, Miller, and Etem into regular roster mainstays WITH DEFINED ROLES, while removing some dead weight from this team in Nash and at least one of Staal/Girardi. That will provide all of the flexibility needed.
So when do we start officially grading his moves?
So far he gets an F in my book.
The Hagelin deal is embarrassing, only to be outdone by the move shipping Etem out of town.
So far he gets an F in my book.
The Hagelin deal is embarrassing, only to be outdone by the move shipping Etem out of town.
Irishguy42
Mr. Preachy
I think we give him a "full year grade" once the pre-season for 2016-2017 begins. He still has a whole trade deadline and offseason ahead of him.
But I think he's fair game for mid-semester grades.
Also, I don't think the Hagelin deal is embarassing at all. It needed to be done.
But I think he's fair game for mid-semester grades.
Also, I don't think the Hagelin deal is embarassing at all. It needed to be done.
Sather was the GM at the time. Etem was not very good. You can argue he deserved more opportunity. He hasn't done much in Vancouver so far either.
Thordic
StraightOuttaConklin
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Also the Hagelin deal was always going to be bad - the other GMs were well aware we couldn't keep him.
When you are forced to trade a player, you will always get worse returns because the GM knows he can just wait you out until you don't have a choice.
When you are forced to trade a player, you will always get worse returns because the GM knows he can just wait you out until you don't have a choice.
haha that's my point, he's garbage. But the player we moved him for is even more garbage.
And Anheim is a dumpster fire. He's being deployed correctly in Pittsburgh, and has 4 points in 5 games.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
What exactly were your expectations for Gorton?
He inherited a depleted farm system.
He inherited a team that has gone years without a first round pick.
He inherited a team that has little cap space.
He inherited a team that has seen its blueline get very old, very quickly.
Not a ton of wiggle room to make moves.
KingDeathMetal
Registered User
The Hagelin trade was a cap move, so it really should be graded on that basis, i.e. what did we do with the money? It's basically being used to pay for younger, better or more promising players like Kreider, Hayes, and Miller.
We also have to wait and see what we've got in Ryan Gropp. If that kid turns out to be a stud, then the trade was amazing.
Gorton's first big test is the trade deadline and how he handles some of the pits that Sather dug for him, i.e. Yandle. His second big test will be whether or not he's got any magic up his sleeves to get Girardi and/or Staal off the team. Then there's also who his first big free agent signing. Hasn't happened yet, may not happen for a while considering our cap restrictions, but that will also be a huge test. So the jury is still way out.
We also have to wait and see what we've got in Ryan Gropp. If that kid turns out to be a stud, then the trade was amazing.
Gorton's first big test is the trade deadline and how he handles some of the pits that Sather dug for him, i.e. Yandle. His second big test will be whether or not he's got any magic up his sleeves to get Girardi and/or Staal off the team. Then there's also who his first big free agent signing. Hasn't happened yet, may not happen for a while considering our cap restrictions, but that will also be a huge test. So the jury is still way out.
TheTakedown
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I hear you, and those things are all true, but I question your use of the word "inherited". The question is, (and we may never know) how complicit was he in the moves that preceded his taking over, officially, the GM role?
Regardless, the moves since he assumed that role should be graded an F, which could change with Gropp's development.
Off Sides
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All true which is why I think this deadline will sort of set the tone of what we are likely to see going forward.
Does he work on fixing any of that, or does he continue down the same path?
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
I think that will be an awful tough decision.
Do you tear it down?
Do you continue down the same path and deal what little youth that actually has value?
Do you stand pat and see how far this team, as currently, constructed can go?
Do you do some combination of the above three? (whatever that would be)
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Off Sides
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If it were me I make three lists
1 With the players that are cost controlled either by already being on decent deals, or by entry level, or RFA who are playing well enough
2 With the Vets that are playing well enough
3 With everyone else
List 3, I remove as much as I can from it. If I can not move them so be it they just are here but I'm sure not adding anything that could potentially end up on that list
List 2, if they are UFAs I try my best to turn that into something that is in list 1, or could be by draft, development.
If they are not UFAs I probably end up keeping them because any move would be lateral at best
List 1, leave it alone and try to add to it.
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