Toggle sidebar

Player Discussion Jeff Gorton

  • Xenforo Cloud has upgraded us to version 2.3.6. Please report any issues you experience.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Amazing Kreiderman said:
Graves and Day will be worse on the ice in the NHL (right now at least) than Staal and Holden. Clendening is a borderline NHL-er who several teams moved on from but somehow people think he will hold his own. Basically Matt Gilroy
Click to expand...

Graves would be better than Staal right now, which isn't hard to do.

Staal would struggle in the AHL too. He couldn't keep up against the Pens AHL squad in the last game of the season which was the reddest of red flags in a season where he planted a bunch of them. He's been abysmal during the whole playoff run, There isn't a team out there who made the playoffs who has iced a defenseman worse than Staal.

Clendo is better than Holden. Say what you want about his match ups, he performed exceptionally well with what he was given, and he was great with Skjei too. Nashville is using a 3rd pair of Yannik Weber and Matt Irwin, those are guys who are about on the same level as Clendo. They're doing just fine.

Day isn't close to NHL ready, but I'd rather have one guy in there who isn't an NHL level player than 2 in G and Staal.
 
Gorton did a fantastic job re-working the forward this past offseason. Zibanejad has been good. Got Vesey here. Grabner has been about as good as he could be. Signed Kreider to a nice deal.

He made some changes on defense, (Holden, Smith, Clendo, Kampfer), but without a buyout of Girardi last year, he was limited in what he could do.

With what we're seeing now, signing Bereglazov, Pedrie, and being rumored to be in on other free agent D, it's pretty clear he is attempting to do that same thing to the defense he did with the offense last year. It's still tougher for him because there are only 6 spots and 2 are tied into long term deals that are immovable.

A Girardi buyout alleviates one spot, but Staal being moved out would open up so much for him moving forward.

I hold out hope he can do it. It's not impossible, but will be increasingly difficult.
 
pld459666 said:
Gms don't hire coaches to then meddle with coaching decisions. Never gonna happen.
Click to expand...

Then the coach shouldn't have any influence on a player call-up, as that is the GM and AHL GM/Coach decision. Clearly AV had some influence on Glass being called up.
 
What Gorton needs to do is change the tools that AV has available. There's some give and take in the coach/GM relationship IMO but it also comes down to the GM being the guy who's ultimately in charge and makes the decisions. I think Gorton should be consulting the coaches about what kind of players they want, how to use them, etc, but I don't think it can go beyond that to the coach saying "we have to have these guys on the roster". If Gorton can move some of the aging contracts he should do so because it's smart roster building with an eye on staying competitive long term. If AV has a problem with someone like Staal or Girardi being moved then he has to either get over it or quit.

But back to the original idea...AV is very stubborn about his veteran players and guys he thinks he can lean on, definitely to a fault, but remove those players and give him options to build with. You don't have to dictate the lineup but it's the GMs job to make the roster as good as possible, not the coaches
 
Levitate said:
What Gorton needs to do is change the tools that AV has available. There's some give and take in the coach/GM relationship IMO but it also comes down to the GM being the guy who's ultimately in charge and makes the decisions. I think Gorton should be consulting the coaches about what kind of players they want, how to use them, etc, but I don't think it can go beyond that to the coach saying "we have to have these guys on the roster". If Gorton can move some of the aging contracts he should do so because it's smart roster building with an eye on staying competitive long term. If AV has a problem with someone like Staal or Girardi being moved then he has to either get over it or quit.

But back to the original idea...AV is very stubborn about his veteran players and guys he thinks he can lean on, definitely to a fault, but remove those players and give him options to build with. You don't have to dictate the lineup but it's the GMs job to make the roster as good as possible, not the coaches
Click to expand...

Ideally it's a GM's job to build as much depth as possible via both veterans and young players. It's the coach's responsibility to realize when the older guys aren't cutting and it's time to give the kids a chance. The veterans could not be faltering any more heavily and AV still isn't picking up on it.
 
bobbop said:
What makes people think Gorton is not happy with AV's decisions? I am sure they disagree on some things but if there was a larger strategic difference, AV would not have gotten a contract extension.
Click to expand...

"But he's enabling him by recalling Glass and blah blah blah."

It goes something like that...
 
Zil said:
Ideally it's a GM's job to build as much depth as possible via both veterans and young players. It's the coach's responsibility to realize when the older guys aren't cutting and it's time to give the kids a chance. The veterans could not be faltering any more heavily and AV still isn't picking up on it.
Click to expand...

Yes I'm going on the theory that Gorton doesn't want to fire AV because he's mostly happy with his work but also wants to improve the defense and is trying to do so by signing some of these players etc.

bobbop said:
What makes people think Gorton is not happy with AV's decisions? I am sure they disagree on some things but if there was a larger strategic difference, AV would not have gotten a contract extension.
Click to expand...

Oh I think he is fine with AV and happy with his work but that doesn't mean he'll be happy with all of his deployment of players, but a GM usually isn't going to call down and say "stop playing those guys, start playing these guys" as it sets a bad precedent. You can be happy with an overall body of work but want some changes and the way to make those changes as GM is by changing the roster, not by demanding the coach play certain players
 
Levitate said:
Oh I think he is fine with AV and happy with his work but that doesn't mean he'll be happy with all of his deployment of players, but a GM usually isn't going to call down and say "stop playing those guys, start playing these guys" as it sets a bad precedent. You can be happy with an overall body of work but want some changes and the way to make those changes as GM is by changing the roster, not by demanding the coach play certain players
Click to expand...

Once he stops being happy with the deployment of players and the quality of the work AV will be gone.

When that happens, you and I will be informed, not consulted.
 
I think Gorton has done a tremendous job since taking over.

I consider the Eric Staal trade as the last move Sather really had a say in and since then I think it's been his team and he's made great player personnel moves.
 
Ail said:
You're right, and he instead should do what the GM is supposed to in this situation and FIRE THE **** OUT AV UNTIL HE CAN'T FIRE HIM ANY MORE.
Click to expand...

Based on what? That some fans dislike the way he sets the lineup? That he recalled a guy that some fans hate?
 
The jury is still out as far as I'm concerned. If he can remake this crappy defense and in the process take away some of AV's pets, I'll be impressed. Better yet, fire AV and I'll be impressed.
 
Trxjw said:
Based on what? That some fans dislike the way he sets the lineup? That he recalled a guy that some fans hate?
Click to expand...

No need to patronize the fans. AV's personnel decisions are objectively destructive to this team. If that's not a reason to fire him I don't know what is.
 
Jeff was always always going to be judged based on how he handles this defense and now Alain Vigneault's tree-fiddy approach to his defensive deployment is another dimension of the defense problems.

McDonagh is our best player and the captain and is impervious to all lineup change ups from AV. Every other defensemen tho.... not the case. AV hasn't handled young two way potential defensemen well at all nor has he handled veteran two way d well either. Yandle on the third pair with McIlrath. Sad! John Moore, great skater, plays okay on both ends, young, cheap, nope. Got rid of him. Del Zotto relegated along with J.Moore. Clendening sees the ice well, makes a good first pass, all is okay except for his skating but he brings good transition hockey, nope, 9th on the depth chart. He's chosen to go with average or bad or terrible veteran slow stay at home players during his entire tenure. Klein is the best of them. Girardi, Staal, Holden, Boyle over Smith, Yandle, Skjei, Moore, Clendening, Del Zotto. Vigneault is beyond redemption with his decisions on D.

You can't teach an old dog new tricks so certainly not with an old stubborn dog. Vigneault IS a part of the problem with the defense. You can always argue his influence on Gorton's decisions on D is a part of the problem as well. Fixing this defense left to him by Sathers is his biggest task as the NYR GM and Vigneault who was also left to him by Sathers is a part of that problem as well. Time to clean house and restructure the D starting with dismissing Vigneault and Arniel.
 
Lorb said:
Jeff was always always going to be judged based on how he handles this defense and now Alain Vigneault's tree-fiddy approach to his defensive deployment is another dimension of the defense problems.

McDonagh is our best player and the captain and is impervious to all lineup change ups from AV. Every other defensemen tho.... not the case. AV hasn't handled young two way potential defensemen well at all nor has he handled veteran two way d well either. Yandle on the third pair with McIlrath. Sad! John Moore, great skater, plays okay on both ends, young, cheap, nope. Got rid of him. Del Zotto relegated along with J.Moore. Clendening sees the ice well, makes a good first pass, all is okay except for his skating but he brings good transition hockey, nope, 9th on the depth chart. He's chosen to go with average or bad or terrible veteran slow stay at home players during his entire tenure. Klein is the best of them. Girardi, Staal, Holden, Boyle over Smith, Yandle, Skjei, Moore, Clendening, Del Zotto. Vigneault is beyond redemption with his decisions on D.

You can't teach an old dog new tricks so certainly not with an old stubborn dog. Vigneault IS a part of the problem with the defense. You can always argue his influence on Gorton's decisions on D is a part of the problem as well. Fixing this defense left to him by Sathers is his biggest task as the NYR GM and Vigneault who was also left to him by Sathers is a part of that problem as well. Time to clean house and restructure the D starting with dismissing Vigneault and Arniel.
Click to expand...

And the irony and weird thing is that with AV's system, you'd THINK these kinds of d-men that he always plays (G, Staal, Holden, Boyle, etc.) would be the LAST ones he'd play.

Just that ALONE makes 0 sense.
 
Trxjw said:
Based on what? That some fans dislike the way he sets the lineup? That he recalled a guy that some fans hate?
Click to expand...

Whether or not the fans like his decisions is irrelevant. His decisions are costing them big games in the post-season. Arguably cost them a 'Cup, arguably cost them game 7 last year versus Tampa, arguably lost them the most recent game. Tanner Glass has actually become the least egregious of his coaching blunders, and if that alone were the only thing he did to hurt the team's chances, I'd probably agree that wanting him to be fired is reactionary and extreme. Now, you don't have to agree with any or all of this, but trying to make it sound as if those roster decisions didn't have an impact on the ice, and the fans are just whining, is disingenuous.
 
GordonGecko said:
Gotcha - everything is fine, nothing to see here. Move along
Click to expand...

I never said everything was fine. I'm just pointing out to the AV haters that we don't have anyone better. And no, Clendening is not better.
 
GAGLine said:
I never said everything was fine. I'm just pointing out to the AV haters that we don't have anyone better. And no, Clendening is not better.
Click to expand...

In your opinion.

Ori said:
Why did AV get an extension before playoffs?
Click to expand...

Considering they're using 'AV hockey' as a selling point for NCAA UDFA's (as pointed out in the Pionk thread), I'd say it's safe to connect the dots to how the organization views AV.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom