OT: Jeff Gorton Performance + Team Direction

[Shesterkybomb]

The 2 issues with mcdonagh have zero to do with his play on the ice. His cap hit for the next number of years, and the sacrifice he made for this team by playing through injuries, blocking shots, playing physical and the amount of minutes he logged for us has him as a player who likely cant be a 24 minute a night hockey player anymore and will likely be hurt more than hes healthy in the final years of his contract. He was moved at the right time and we got a pretty good return in that deal. I cant say I wouldnt have liked to see how Miller fit under Quinn because i think that's the kind of player he likes.

 

[LORDE]

At the same time, Beuke wasn't exactly an all-star. He was a solid defensive D-man with a mean streak. He just happened to mesh really well with a future hall-of-famer in Leetch. We tend to glorify him a little above his skillset around here, and that's not a knock against him.

Completely agree.

He wouldn’t even be an NHL defenseman today. People hate on G and Staal and Beuk was an imbecile when it came to moving a puck.

How many icingings in 94?!?!? Jesus I hated him for that alone.

Big crease clearer and could hit... he wouldn’t be able to catch anyone it today’s NHL

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

lmao what a garbage thread

why?

 

[Thordic]

Completely agree.

He wouldn’t even be an NHL defenseman today. People hate on G and Staal and Beuk was an imbecile when it came to moving a puck.

How many icingings in 94?!?!? Jesus I hated him for that alone.

Big crease clearer and could hit... he wouldn’t be able to catch anyone it today’s NHL

Beuke in NY wasn't that different from McQuaid in Boston. McQuaid didn't play first pairing but obviously the NHL has changed and you can't really get away with having a big tough D-man on your first pairing anymore.

 

[Edge]

Well, yeah.

You’d think of it as straight forward, but I think there’s the tendency to view a trade mostly by the immediate aftermath and not 3 or 4 years later.

As a result there’s often a tendency to be surprised when the guy we traded either doesn’t suck immediately, or the guy we acquired isn’t immediately better.

 

[Machinehead]

His trades are generally good. I'm warming up on the Tampa one. McDonagh hasn't been anything special this year. Albeit, calling him a 2nd pair guy is extremely disingenuous.

I still think his drafting is hit or miss and he's had a bigger influence on our drafting for a longer time than most will admit. He has to prove that he's capable of drafting an elite player.

 

[LORDE]

His trades are generally good. I'm warming up on the Tampa one. McDonagh hasn't been anything special this year. Albeit, calling him a 2nd pair guy is extremely disingenuous.

I still think his drafting is hit or miss and he's had a bigger influence on our drafting for a longer time than most will admit. He has to prove that he's capable of drafting an elite player.

Give him a top-5 pick and let’s see

 

[Machinehead]

Give him a top-5 pick and let’s see

He might not get one and you have to be able to function without one.

 

[Thirty One]

His trades are generally good. I'm warming up on the Tampa one. McDonagh hasn't been anything special this year. Albeit, calling him a 2nd pair guy is extremely disingenuous.

I still think his drafting is hit or miss and he's had a bigger influence on our drafting for a longer time than most will admit. He has to prove that he's capable of drafting an elite player.

I don't think I've seen a moment of McDonagh's ice time this season or dug into his stats at all, but one writer was talking Norris for him already.

 

[True Blue]

Big crease clearer and could hit... he wouldn’t be able to catch anyone it today’s NHL

Not sure I agree. You can still see people getting lined up today (See Brooks Orpik). He was not a puck mover. Fine, but he could still clear the crease and be a menace around the net. I remember when the whole thing was that the LA Kings could not hit something they could not catch, when the played the Rangers. Looked to me like they caught many a player.

 

[offdacrossbar]

the mcd/jtm deal was a win for us. period.

for a team looking to rebuild, those contracts needed to be moved.

to get back what we did and the picks was a very solid return plus.

add to that the cap room cleared by avoiding those 2 premium 2nd contracts, and its a clear win for this franchise.

 

[LORDE]

He might not get one and you have to be able to function without one.

Seems like there’s a lot more luck involved in finding elite outside that range than not... but point taken.

I’d just like to see what he does with one.

 

[LORDE]

Not sure I agree. You can still see people getting lined up today (See Brooks Orpik). He was not a puck mover. Fine, but he could still clear the crease and be a menace around the net. I remember when the whole thing was that the LA Kings could not hit something they could not catch, when the played the Rangers. Looked to me like they caught many a player.

Well again different games. Beuk could hit I just don’t think he could today.

 

[Rangerfans]

People think trades are always going to be pure fleeces.

Sometimes you need to give up to get. It’s always a gamble.

 

[Machinehead]

I don't think I've seen a moment of McDonagh's ice time this season or dug into his stats at all, but one writer was talking Norris for him already.

Folks in Tampa are very nice but they see what they wanna see.

 

[JT Kreider]

Folks in Tampa are very nice but they see what they wanna see.

Respectfully disagree. McDonagh has been very good this year, even better when he had to take on more minutes and responsibility when Hedman was injured. Has probably been their best player, on the best team in the NHL.

He is in the Norris discussion early, though that's also because a lot of the other top defensemen have been underwhelming.

 

[Machinehead]

Respectfully disagree. McDonagh has been very good this year, even better when he had to take on more minutes and responsibility when Hedman was injured. Has probably been their best player, on the best team in the NHL.

He is in the Norris discussion early, though that's also because a lot of the other top defensemen have been underwhelming.

He ranks 5th among Tampa's D in shot differential. His partner is 6th.

He ranks 4th in expected goals differential.

He's 1st in even strength plus/minus by leaps and bounds.

Sounds to me like a player who's getting outplayed and remembered for being on the ice when his team scores.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Respectfully disagree. McDonagh has been very good this year, even better when he had to take on more minutes and responsibility when Hedman was injured. Has probably been their best player, on the best team in the NHL.

He is in the Norris discussion early, though that's also because a lot of the other top defensemen have been underwhelming.

But he has a negative CFRel%......

 

[FIRE DRURY]

His trades are generally good. I'm warming up on the Tampa one. McDonagh hasn't been anything special this year. Albeit, calling him a 2nd pair guy is extremely disingenuous.

I still think his drafting is hit or miss and he's had a bigger influence on our drafting for a longer time than most will admit. He has to prove that he's capable of drafting an elite player.

McDonagh has been their best dmen this year. The big difference from last year has been his skating. He's healthy and it shows on the ice.

I still make that trade 10/10 times though.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

He ranks 5th among Tampa's D in shot differential. His partner is 6th.

He ranks 4th in expected goals differential.

He's 1st in even strength plus/minus by leaps and bounds.

Sounds to me like a player who's getting outplayed and remembered for being on the ice when his team scores.

I've watched about a dozen Tampa games this year. Watch McDonagh. He's vintage McDonagh. He's breaking up plays and moving the puck very well. I understand your a Corsi guy but the numbers don't tell you everything.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Gorton is loading up on assets and hasn't done anything overtly stupid. That's hardly "killing it." Time will tell.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Gorton is loading up on assets and hasn't done anything overtly stupid. That's hardly "killing it." Time will tell.

Agreed. I was on the rebuild wagon and am pleased with the young assets he's acquired, but it's too early to say he's killing it. Way too early.

 

[Webster]

I can imagine the meltdown on this board if Gorton re-signs Zucc

 

[True Blue]

Well again different games. Beuk could hit I just don’t think he could today.

Beuk was a pretty good defender. Yes, he had a mean streak a mile long and yes, he could absolutely hit. But we forget the freedom he afforded to Leetch. He was just the definition of a stay home defenseman.

 

[Machinehead]

I've watched about a dozen Tampa games this year. Watch McDonagh. He's vintage McDonagh. He's breaking up plays and moving the puck very well. I understand your a Corsi guy but the numbers don't tell you everything.

It's a small sample. The numbers night shift to reflect more positive play.