Player Discussion Jeff Gorton Part II

[GordonGecko]

He’s got Dolan’s blessing to fully rebuild as recently as last season, his neck is on the line as much as anyone with a boss’ neck is on the line

Except that if he fails what team is ever going to hire him again

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Draft picks are completely useless if they don't turn into serviceable NHL talent. Gorton has been given a lot of rope, so far I'm not optimistic but we have to wait to see how they pan out. His neck is on the line for sure

Duh, no kidding. My bet is the 2 1st's(possibly as many as 4) and 3 2nd's will produce some quality NHL talent.

 

[Kendo]

Just looking at JG's trade history:
History of hockey trades by general manager Jeff Gorton - NHL Trade Tracker

Summer '16 - Got G depth for nothing.

Winter '16 - Got that 6th rounder back in a trash for trash trade.
Acquired Eric Staal for seemingly too high a price, although Staal has since shown that he had more left in the tank and was likely utilized poorly. I don't hate it. A loss, but not a bad bet.

Summer '16 - Got some pennies back for yet another wrongly utilized player in Yandle. Basically free late picks for a past mistake. Not substantial, but not bad.
Got Holden for a 4th, who would end up getting us a 3rd and a younger version of Holden. Small-scale win, but a great move.
Even if Olof Lindbolm amounts to literally nothing, Brassard for Zibanejad is a gigantic win. Zibanejad has progressed as expected (or more), and Brassard has regressed as expected (or more).

Winter '17 - Some trash for trash moves. And then...
Acquired Smith for seemingly too high a price. I don't hate it, but re-signing him the following off-season was a MASSIVE blunder that any fan could see from a mile away. While the trade was "meh," the new contract basically negated any "trading profit" from leading up to and including the Zibanejad trade (and possibly even the upcoming Stepan trade).

Summer '17 - Stepan and Raanta for ADA and a 1st (Lias Andersson) is a big win. ADA needs some seasoning (that he is currently getting) and regardless of what LA develops into, there's a factor that having a "safe pick" early in the round allowed us to "swing for the fences" in Chytil.

Early '18 - After a string of trash for trash trades, JG cashes in on the Holden trade.
With decent at worst results on the trade front (although with one big win) and one big mistake on the contract front (Smith), JG is mediocre at his job at worst going into the 2018 TDL.

Since the 2018 TDL:

McDonagh
Hayes
Miller
Nash
Zuccarello
Grabner
McQuaid

for

Names
Strome
Howden
Lemieux
Rykov
Hajek
Lindgren
Bergman
2018 1st (packaged and moved up for Miller)
2018 1st (Lundqvist)
2019 1st
2018 2nd (packaged and moved up for Miller)
2019 2nd (longshot 1st)
2019 2nd (longshot 1st)
2018 3rd (Keane)
2020 3rd (longshot 1st)

Names and Strome are probably worth a 2nd and a 3rd respectively at the 2019 or 2020 draft, so I think even if you count everything up until the 2018 deadline a wash, he has actually done a FANTASTIC job in maximizing value since.


GMJG = Solid B+

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Just looking at JG's trade history:
History of hockey trades by general manager Jeff Gorton - NHL Trade Tracker

Summer '16 - Got G depth for nothing.

Winter '16 - Got that 6th rounder back in a trash for trash trade.
Acquired Eric Staal for seemingly too high a price, although Staal has since shown that he had more left in the tank and was likely utilized poorly. I don't hate it. A loss, but not a bad bet.

Summer '16 - Got some pennies back for yet another wrongly utilized player in Yandle. Basically free late picks for a past mistake. Not substantial, but not bad.
Got Holden for a 4th, who would end up getting us a 3rd and a younger version of Holden. Small-scale win, but a great move.
Even if Olof Lindbolm amounts to literally nothing, Brassard for Zibanejad is a gigantic win. Zibanejad has progressed as expected (or more), and Brassard has regressed as expected (or more).

Winter '17 - Some trash for trash moves. And then...
Acquired Smith for seemingly too high a price. I don't hate it, but re-signing him the following off-season was a MASSIVE blunder that any fan could see from a mile away. While the trade was "meh," the new contract basically negated any "trading profit" from leading up to and including the Zibanejad trade (and possibly even the upcoming Stepan trade).

Summer '17 - Stepan and Raanta for ADA and a 1st (Lias Andersson) is a big win. ADA needs some seasoning (that he is currently getting) and regardless of what LA develops into, there's a factor that having a "safe pick" early in the round allowed us to "swing for the fences" in Chytil.

Early '18 - After a string of trash for trash trades, JG cashes in on the Holden trade.
With decent at worst results on the trade front (although with one big win) and one big mistake on the contract front (Smith), JG is mediocre at his job at worst going into the 2018 TDL.

Since the 2018 TDL:

McDonagh
Hayes
Miller
Nash
Zuccarello
Grabner
McQuaid

for

Names
Strome
Howden
Lemieux
Rykov
Hajek
Lindgren
Bergman
2018 1st (Andersson)
2019 1st
2018 2nd (packaged and moved up)
2019 2nd (longshot 1st)
2019 2nd
2020 3rd

Names and Strome are probably worth a 2nd and a 3rd respectively at the 2019 or 2020 draft, so I think even if you count everything up until the 2018 deadline a wash, he has actually done a FANTASTIC job in maximizing value since.


GMJG = Solid B+

Not disagreeing with your overall point but since the 2018 DL its been

Out:
McDonagh
Miller
Nash
Grabner
Holden
Zuccarello
Hayes
McQuaid

In:
Namesnikov
Strome
Howden
Lemieux
Rykov
Hajek
Lindgren
O'Gara (lol)
Bergman
2018 1st+2018 2nd (used for Miller)
2018 1st (Lundkvist)
2018 3rd (Keane)
2019 1st (WPG)
2019 1st/2nd (Tampa)
2019 1st/2nd (Dallas)
2020 1st/3rd (Dallas)

4th and 7th were moved for McQuaid were eventually replenished, though will be later.

Thats a wholllee lot of assets in. Nothing elite (maybe Miller) but it's been a pretty rapid turn around from turning a barren system into a pretty deep one.

Of course he can f*** it all up by splurging on UFA's this summer, but they really need to be committed to drafting and developing a star player. We're going to have to do that one ourselves.

 

[LionsHeart]

I really like what Gorton has done so far, and really like how he's addressing the depth of the team with guys like Howden, Lindgren, Hajek, and now Lemieux.

Can't wait to see how more of the higher end skill players develop.

 

[Kendo]

I had touched on the Holden trade already, so I didn't include it in my synopsis.

And I'm assuming the Dallas conditions aren't met. You're not wrong, but I made a reasonable assumption.

Still...respectable af for Gorton since Feb 2018.

edit: Oh, yeah...used the wrong 2018 1st in my summary. Good catch.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

It turns out he did pretty well when it came to getting picks. A first for Hayes and second for Zucc. More than the likes of Brassard fetched.

 

[RangerBoy]

Jeff Gorton was very fortunate to get a 1st round pick for Kevin Hayes. The rental market was very soft this year. Matt Duchene was the only other rental to get a 1st round pick at the deadline.

There were/are so many other pending group III free agent forwards. Max Pacioretty and Jeff Skinner were traded before the season started. Pacioretty re-signed in Vegas. Skinner will probably stay in Buffalo. 8 years MAX but he wants $9M per. He can sign the 8 year contract starting today. Mark Stone and Matt Duchene ended up being traded. Stone re-signed in Vegas. He will get 8 years MAX on March 1. Jakob Silfverberg re-signed in Anaheim. Becomes official on March 1. 10% tagging rule on March 1. The Islanders didn't trade their potential group III's in Anders Lee, Brock Nelson and Jordan Eberle. Artemi Panarin didn't move.

Gorton got more for Mats Zuccarello than the other second tier group III's. More than Detroit got for Gustav Nyquist. More than the Flyers got for Wayne Simmonds. More than the Devils got for Marcus Johansson.

You rarely see a hockey trade made anymore. Everything is about money. Very sad.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Jeff Gorton was very fortunate to get a 1st round pick for Kevin Hayes. The rental market was very soft this year. Matt Duchene was the only other rental to get a 1st round pick at the deadline.

There were/are so many other pending group III free agent forwards. Max Pacioretty and Jeff Skinner were traded before the season started. Pacioretty re-signed in Vegas. Skinner will probably stay in Buffalo. 8 years MAX but he wants $9M per. He can sign the 8 year contract starting today. Mark Stone and Matt Duchene ended up being traded. Stone re-signed in Vegas. He will get 8 years MAX on March 1. Jakob Silfverberg re-signed in Anaheim. Becomes official on March 1. 10% tagging rule on March 1. The Islanders didn't trade their potential group III's in Anders Lee, Brock Nelson and Jordan Eberle. Artemi Panarin didn't move.

Gorton got more for Mats Zuccarello than the other second tier group III's. More than Detroit got for Gustav Nyquist. More than the Flyers got for Wayne Simmonds. More than the Devils got for Marcus Johansson.

You rarely see a hockey trade made anymore. Everything is about money. Very sad.

It should be noted that the only teams with multiple 1st in this upcoming draft are the Ducks, Rangers and Sabres.

Ducks and Sabres have 2 each, Rangers could have as many as 4.

 

[RangerBoy]

Jeff Gorton was asked about Chris Kreider and Mats Zuccarello.

The major remaining question now is about Chris Kreider, who is having a superb season but has only one more year left on his contract. Is he the next UFA to be a trade deadline victim? The Rangers didn’t actively shop him Monday, and sources say there wasn’t a lot of discussion about him. Teams know, apparently, that the asking price would be higher than that for Hayes. The Rangers traded Ryan McDonagh in a blockbuster last year, McDonagh having one more year left on his contract and seeking an extension at a price and length the Rangers were unwilling to go.

I asked Gorton about Kreider — who you’d have to think would be a candidate for the vacant captaincy if he re-ups — and the GM was hardly committal.

“Chris has been really good for us,” Gorton said. “He’s been a great player having a great year. As far as what we’re going to do with him? He’s been a great Ranger and we’ll leave it like that. Obviously, he has another year on his contract and this summer we’ll be able to talk to him and we’ll do that and move forward like that. … For the most part, he’s gotten better every year. So he’s definitely a player who, we like what he’s doing and where he fits right now.”

Kreider would be another difficult decision, like the calls on McDonagh, Hayes and Zuccarello – the latter of which was particularly hard because of Zuccarello’s popularity.

“Very, very difficult,” Gorton said. “He’s obviously a player who’s extremely popular — to the fans, to his teammates, to the front office, to the coaches. It’s always hard when you trade a player of that magnitude, who’s meant so much to the organization and been through a lot of battles and had so much success. So anytime you do that it’s difficult. I felt comfortable all along (how) we kept him in the loop. We were talking to him and trying to tell him what’s going on. So he felt a little better about it.

“But at the end of the day, when you finally make the decision, and we made the decision, we move forward. Those are hard decisions to make. I understand why he’s so popular, what he’s meant to us on and off the ice. Those are difficult decisions, there’s no question about it.”

This was an awful trade market.

"Where he fits right now".

The Athletic breaks down every trade made.

Hayes was brought in the Stone analysis

“I thought they gave up very little,” said one NHL scout. “I think Winnipeg gave up as much to get (Kevin) Hayes and no comparison who the better player is.”

NHL Trade Grades: Concern over return for Stone tapered by...

 

[Ori]

Kreider could be gone in the next TDL or in the summer window and that`s how I read between Gorton`s lines - especially if they miss next draft in 2019 with an elite talent, or they could be moving him at the draft day in 2019 similar to D. Stepan.
Personally I don`t see it that they are going to hurry the process with the captaincy, because it should be natural selection when we finally hit in a draft.

 

[Ghost of jas]

It should be noted that the only teams with multiple 1st in this upcoming draft are the Ducks, Rangers and Sabres.

Ducks and Sabres have 2 each, Rangers could have as many as 4.

Didn’t the Kings get the Leafs 1st this year for Muzzin?

 

[Mike in Houston]

Kreider could be gone in the next TDL or in the summer window and that`s how I read between Gorton`s lines - especially if they miss next draft in 2019 with an elite talent, or they could be moving him at the draft day in 2019 similar to D. Stepan.
Personally I don`t see it that they are going to hurry the process with the captaincy, because it should be natural selection when we finally hit in a draft.

Count me as one who didn't like what Jeff Gorton had to say regarding Chris Kreider yesterday. Are they really going to go through this again next year? Have that cloud over their heads over a better and more impactful player? Perhaps that was all just early negotiation speak from GMJG but I certainly would've liked for him to say, "We're going to do everything we can to keep him here long term." But alas.

I guess the watermark will be the draft. If they don't deal Kreider then I assume he gets extended (which he should).

 

[RangerBoy]

"We always talk about flexibility - having picks gives us the flexibility to use them," Gorton said. "To go out and get these young players that are doing so well in the game today, you have to have the picks. Then you also have the opportunity to make trades. You have what people want, and if there's a younger player around the league that we want to go get, we actually have the assets to go get them."

Gorton on 2019 Trade Deadline: It's About Flexibility

Gorton said the same thing last year at this time.

A young player who is on the cusp of playing in the NHL or is in his entry level contract. It's so hard to make that type of trade. Teams don't trade those players unless there's something wrong with them.

Gorton can get more assets from TB for taking on Callahan's contract. TB wins the Cup and the Rangers get #31. They get more assets for Callahan's contract. TB needs to move that contract this summer. They have so many players to re-sign this summer. They are OK now but not in the future. The Rangers and TB have had talks about that.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Didn’t the Kings get the Leafs 1st this year for Muzzin?

Yeah I forgot that one.

 

[Ori]

Dan Rosen quote after TDL on nhl.com

23. New York Rangers (27-26-9, 63 points)
Reason for optimism: The Rangers will almost certainly have at least two first-round picks in the 2019 draft and could have four. They should have at least five picks in the first two rounds and at least 10 in all. They also will have a lot of NHL salary cap space to utilize in the offseason.
Reason for concern: They don't have any ready-made in-house replacements for Hayes or Zuccarello. They're banking a lot on the development of a lot of prospects.

I don`t see that a concern at all while under a new direction and rebuilding. They need to aim for 1st overall to have the best chances to land an elite talent in the draft. And that`s why Zucc and other big name UFA should not be signed this summer. But a good reason to avoid big name UFA signing, because we don`t know yet if our 2018 players are ready for top 6 assignment. Chytil will be a top 6, but I don`t know about Lias - I need to see more of him and he need to be more visible for me.

 

[offdacrossbar]

had some time to let the trade deadline marinate.

few thoughts.

the returns were fair. the picks were reasonable. JG did what he could for valuable talent but rentals none the less. GRADE B

lemiuex is a kid who may well stick here. lets see how he plays. no real downside. add some spice to this lineup with a 23 yr old who's shown the ability to mix it up and play reg shift. we need some of what he has. add him ADA and we have some swag now. GRADE A

now the fun begins, and lets see how JG plays this.

the team seems to compete. seems to have bought into what quinn is selling.

real needs ?? a true top C or at least a 2C. holden, naw. LA, nope. so the draft is essential because going this next season...

mika
holden/chytl
andersson
boo

so then does that mean were importing a FA to play center ? NO !!! or making a deal for a young kid who is ready and can come in and play. those guys are near impossible to find unless they are flawed.

draft day will be exciting. we have a ton of picks, cap room, some guys who could be moved and we will be aggressively trying to move up.

next season is going to really suck with that gaping hole where 13 used to be.

my solutions is simple, add jack hughes and art kaliyev at the draft- hope both can make the team outa camp, pray Kravtsov hits the ground running and this rebuild is moving quite nicely.

stay away from panarin !!!

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Except that if he fails what team is ever going to hire him again

Really? Have you seen some of the GMs that have jobs?

 

[Gardner McKay]

Except that if he fails what team is ever going to hire him again

Chiarelli didn't have a problem landing the Edmonton gig.

 

[will1066]

I give Jeff Gorton a B+ for this year's trades...

...and an A++ for heartlessness.

 

[Off Sides]

I had my doubts, but I really am starting to like Gorton.

I really really want to believe 2021/2022 is being seen as pretty much a clean cap slate, and until then the Rangers will remain as flexible as possible.

Given that time period also fits in with a new CBA, and also after expansion, it just seems to make total sense to me to pretty much be prepared to gear up at that point as the Rangers will also have a much better idea about what they are missing as the prospects, both current and future are going to be further along.

 

[True Blue]

Count me as one who didn't like what Jeff Gorton had to say regarding Chris Kreider yesterday. Are they really going to go through this again next year? Have that cloud over their heads over a better and more impactful player? Perhaps that was all just early negotiation speak from GMJG but I certainly would've liked for him to say, "We're going to do everything we can to keep him here long term." But alas.

I guess the watermark will be the draft. If they don't deal Kreider then I assume he gets extended (which he should).

Not seeing that. He likes where Krieder fits in right now, leading and being a top line player. That also takes pressure away from the kids. Gorton is not going to tip his hand. I think that he will try to extend Kreider. Now if Kreider wants something outrageous or insists on hitting the market, that is another story. But somehow, I see Krieder here long term.

 

[GordonGecko]

Gorton on 2019 Trade Deadline: It's About Flexibility

Gorton said the same thing last year at this time.

A young player who is on the cusp of playing in the NHL or is in his entry level contract. It's so hard to make that type of trade. Teams don't trade those players unless there's something wrong with them.

Gorton can get more assets from TB for taking on Callahan's contract. TB wins the Cup and the Rangers get #31. They get more assets for Callahan's contract. TB needs to move that contract this summer. They have so many players to re-sign this summer. They are OK now but not in the future. The Rangers and TB have had talks about that.

Where did you hear there was talks of taking back Callahan?

 

[Kovalev27]

That interview very much sounds like CK is gone sooner rather than later.

Kreider Namestnikov Shattenkirk imo all will be gone over the summer.

 

[LORDE]

I wonder if we package Kreider w a pick at the draft for something other than another pick. Does Gorton have his eye on a young player from last draft or the one prior that is blocked, or hasn't made the big club yet?

I would be very surprised tho if Kreider isn't here on opening night.