Post-Game Talk: Jazz

[CasusBelli]

You don’t just start sucking overnight and it’s not like he’s at an age where his play should naturally slowdown.

It’s tricky, because his game relies on speed, instinct and a decent one timer from the circle. The speed is still there. You don’t lose instinct. You can score PP one timers into your 40s. His skating hasn’t suffered. What’s going on? I’m at a loss. My feeling is that it has to be psychological — whatever the source.

 

[Gordon Bombay]

Even his great offense aside, Panarin has been incredible away from the puck so far. He’s made so many great defensive plays and won tons of puck battles

He's back to being the guy who first came here. He looks great, looks like he's gotten faster

 

[mas0764]

I miss 2018-2022 Mika. What a fun player he was to watch. WTF happened.

He’s over 30 and for many, many players, that means significant decline. Panarin is a generational talent (Mika isn’t) and Kreider is defying time but most can’t (Though to be fair Kreider actually modified and remade his game to a large degree).

Don’t give out 8 year unmovable contracts to 30 year olds.

 

[Graves97]

…. Yes, he is.

He’s 31, no reason for his game to fall off so dramatically.

 

[CasusBelli]

He's back to being the guy who first came here. He looks great, looks like he's gotten faster

He, Fox, CK look much faster.

 

[Mike in Houston]

Mika. Bro.

 

[mas0764]

He’s 31, no reason for his game to fall off so dramatically.

Being 31 actually is a reason for a player’s game to fall off dramatically.

 

[CasusBelli]

He’s over 30 and for many, many players, that means significant decline. Panarin is a generational talent (Mika isn’t) and Kreider is defying time but most can’t.

Don’t give out 8 year unmovable contracts to 30 year olds.

On his contract year, I said let him walk (or deal him), for this very reason. If we hand out a stupid 8 year contract, let it be to a 27 year old instead of a 30 year old at least.

 

[Gordon Bombay]

He, Fox, CK look much faster.

I actually think the team itself looks faster. Looks like they made it a focal point, finally, to play faster as a team.

 

[mas0764]

On his contract year, I said let him walk (or deal him), for this very reason. If we hand out a stupid 8 year contract, let it be to a 27 year old instead of a 30 year old at least.

And every time this discussion comes up people think of the exceptions that continue to be very good players past their early 30s, but the thing is, almost every single one of them is worse than they were in their late 20s, and on top of that, they are only remembering the players who stayed good enough to be impact players despite the almost inevitable decline.

You forget about most of the guys who hit a wall at 30 and silently transition out but it’s like, most of them.

Many star players - even those who aren’t Panarin-level talents (which Mika isn’t) - can stay top-6 effective into their 30s despite a decline, but the writing has been on the wall with Zibanejad that he was approaching a cliff and people ignored it because they want to believe that hitting 30 SHOULDNT be an obstacle.

But it is. And it’s getting him bad.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

mika’s got a full NMC. he’s not going anywhere. we’re stuck with him for 5 more seasons after this. $8.5mm through the end of the ‘29-‘30 season… yuck.

 

[will1066]

They underestimated this Utah Hockey Club and it cost them. They dominated stretches when they cared. They paid for their globetrotter attempts.

 

[majordomo]

Miller and Fox were dumb on the 4 on 4 goal, but Lindgren and Fox should never be a thing again. They had the puck in the offensive zone all game again at five on five.

I still hate that pairing.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

And every time this discussion comes up people think of the exceptions that continue to be very good players past their early 30s, but the thing is, almost every single one of them is worse than they were in their late 20s, and on top of that, they are only remembering the players who stayed good enough to be impact players despite the almost inevitable decline.

You forget about most of the guys who hit a wall at 30 and silently transition out but it’s like, most of them.

Many star players - even those who aren’t Panarin-level talents (which Mika isn’t) - can stay top-6 effective into their 30s despite a decline, but the writing has been on the wall with Zibanejad that he was approaching a cliff and people ignored it because they want to believe that hitting 30 SHOULDNT be an obstacle.

But it is. And it’s getting him bad.

the issue with mika is it doesn’t even look like it’s a physical thing. it’s not like he had this blazing speed and he’s lost a couple steps and he’s no longer effective. 80% of his problems are purely from a mental aspect. not being hard on the puck has nothing to do with age. puck watching has nothing to do with age. not covering your man has nothing to do with age. he entire existence on the ice is a brain fart. his hockey IQ has diminished, and that can’t be explained by age. and he’s 31, not 35. he shouldn’t be declining this hard purely from age.

 

[mas0764]

The scary thing is that we have probably gotten Trocheck’s two best seasons in NY already as well.

Very likely we’ve already seen his best one.

It’s so awesome we talked ourselves into believing we didn’t need young centers cause we had Mika and Tro.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

The scary thing is that we have probably gotten Trocheck’s two best seasons in NY already as well.

Very likely we’ve already seen his best one.

It’s so awesome we talked ourselves into believing we didn’t need young centers cause we had Mika and Tro.

trochek’s contract is a steal. he’s outplaying his contract by a lot. even if his play dips a bit, we’re still getting good value from him.

it’s mika and trouba that are the two big anchors, and panarin is you want to factor in how much of a no show he is in the playoffs

 

[mas0764]

the issue with mika is it doesn’t even look like it’s a physical thing. it’s not like he had this blazing speed and he’s lost a couple steps and he’s no longer effective. 80% of his problems are purely from a mental aspect. not being hard on the puck has nothing to do with age. puck watching has nothing to do with age. not covering your man has nothing to do with age. he entire existence on the ice is a brain fart. his hockey IQ has diminished, and that can’t be explained by age. and he’s 31, not 35. he shouldn’t be declining this hard purely from age.

I dunno, it kinda looks like a physical thing to me.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

It’s tricky, because his game relies on speed, instinct and a decent one timer from the circle. The speed is still there. You don’t lose instinct. You can score PP one timers into your 40s. His skating hasn’t suffered. What’s going on? I’m at a loss. My feeling is that it has to be psychological — whatever the source.

He's always been an emo guy who lost his confidence easily.

 

[Graves97]

Being 31 actually is a reason for a player’s game to fall off dramatically.

Yeah all those 31 year olds retiring every year is really indicative of that.

No one is saying age plays no role here but such a dramatic drop over the last 2 years can’t be explained solely by age. To me it’s an effort issue, whether on ice, during the offseason, or both. He doesn’t look like the same player.

 

[Whoot Whoot]

Miller had a bad game too

 

[mas0764]

trochek’s contract is a steal. he’s outplaying his contract by a lot. even if his play dips a bit, we’re still getting good value from him.

it’s mika and trouba that are the two big anchors, and panarin is you want to factor in how much of a no show he is in the playoffs

Sure just saying the whole situation already isn’t good enough and it’s not getting any better in fact it’s probably gonna get worse from every angle.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

I dunno, it kinda looks like a physical thing to me.

I don’t agree. making stupid passes instead of shooting isn’t physical. the vast majority of the time i’m screaming at my TV about a dumb play by him is a stupid decision.

 

[Leafs1991]

Being 31 actually is a reason for a player’s game to fall off dramatically.

How so?

 

[majordomo]

Demote his dumb ass to the 3rd line where he belongs , he can be a defensive specialist, Kreider - Chytil - Smith (or Kakko if Smith ends up sucking)

And dump him from PP1 and insert Laf.

Enough of catering to this moron.

Then you ruin whatever progress Kakko and Cuylle have made.

 

[mas0764]

Yeah all those 31 year olds retiring every year is really indicative of that.

Yes, there are lots.

No one is saying age plays no role here but such a dramatic drop over the last 2 years can’t be explained solely by age.

It definitely CAN be.

Maybe he can bounce back from being a zero at 5v5 as he’s been for like a year now, but it’s very clear Mika’s electric game is probably gone forever.