Jay Woodcroft Opinions

[Drivesaitl]

Overhated coach. Had some issues for sure, namely his stubbornness around using 11-7, his allergy to using young players like Holloway and Broberg, and his seeming inability to get the team to play the first period which may of course be personnel related, not all on the coach. He implemented some interesting tactics and got solid results out of a very flawed roster, saving us from McDavid/Draisaitl asking for a trade after that disastrous Tippett streak, and making due with his idiot GM saddling us with one of the most overpaid, if not outright worst goalies in NHL history, and a nonsense roster that straight up had 19 players at one point due to how badly Holland managed the cap. Knoblauch is a vastly superior coach and it was the right decision to move on from him after the disastrous start to the 2023 season. However, that playoff series win against Calgary alone makes him okay by my book.

Several players had career valleys under Woodcroft. You look at exhibit A Darnell Nurse. He was always good, good enough to get his contract and under Tippett had some peak play. Heres comes Woodcroft and for the duration Darnell Nurse is a much worse D, constant questions about his contract, being an albatross etc. What makes things harder is Woody was here with Manson, the latter of who was dealing with the death of his wife. I think it precluded him being effective and I'd be destroyed myself and would have tough time focusing. He shouldn't have been in the role with respect to his personal tragedy.

FF to KK and Coffey and the OIlers D is much more shored up, Nurse looking like an absolute stud again, even guys like Emberson coming in here and playing decent enough and learning. Our D is such a huge part of our team. Every D from Booch on has grown leaps and bounds with the current D whispering. I like to grade coaches on what special teams look like, what dedication to levels of D looks like. Its never been better here than under KK and Coffey.

ps Tippett had saved us from a "disastrous" McLellan streak. That club had successive years of missing playoffs and an abysmal record. Tippett took that club and got it to playoffs two seasons running and was fired with the team 5 games over .500 in the standings. Not exactly a disaster. Woody in contrast was fired with a team tanking 2-9 and in peril to start a season and a full 7 games under .500 and in danger of again missing playoffs. Indeed when Woody was fired the team was lost on the ice. D not knowing what assignments were, gaping holes being left right in front of our net. It was almost Eakins level Swarm.

 

[Mr Positive]

Overhated coach. Had some issues for sure, namely his stubbornness around using 11-7, his allergy to using young players like Holloway and Broberg, and his seeming inability to get the team to play the first period which may of course be personnel related, not all on the coach. He implemented some interesting tactics and got solid results out of a very flawed roster, saving us from McDavid/Draisaitl asking for a trade after that disastrous Tippett streak, and making due with his idiot GM saddling us with one of the most overpaid, if not outright worst goalies in NHL history, and a nonsense roster that straight up had 19 players at one point due to how badly Holland managed the cap. Knoblauch is a vastly superior coach and it was the right decision to move on from him after the disastrous start to the 2023 season. However, that playoff series win against Calgary alone makes him okay by my book.

Imo Broberg and Holloway were just not ready yet. They weren't top tier prospects where the transition to the NHL would be quick and smooth. Knoblauch was even stingier with their minutes and usage. They showed signs of flourishing under Knoblauch and imo it was because they were over ripened. If Woody would have given them a bigger role they likely would have crashed and burned, and lost confidence and development

 

[OilerTyler]

Campbell was very likely not a real option through the rest of the playoffs for sure, but he should have been put in Game 6 similar to how Pickard was put in for Game 4 against the Nucks last year. Would we have lost anyways? Maybe, or maybe Campbell plays well enough to win a game, we take Game 7, and Skinner manages to handle himself the rest of the way.

When a goalie is spiralling it makes no sense to continue running him out in the playoffs. Knoblauch faced the identical scenario Woodcroft did in the second round last year, but the difference is he had the wherewithal to make the common sense decision and was rewarded for it.

I edited my post but I don't think you can equate Knoblauch's goaltending switch to the option Woodcroft had.

Pickard is a much, much better goaltender than Campbell was. The quality of your backup is a huge factor when deciding on making a goaltending change. I don't think putting Campbell in was ever a serious option. If Woodcroft has Pickard as a backup he probably makes the switch.

I think people are really forgetting how bad Campbell was that year. He started 34 games and only held his opponent to 1 goal or less on 4 occasions. Those games were against the Blues, Sharks and Ducks x2. All bad teams that didn't make the playoffs. Skinner had rebounded after each loss and held Vegas to 1 goal twice already in the series. It made sense to start him in game 6.

 

[Zguy370]

Hello Oil Country,

I’m curious as a Ducks fan what the general consensus of you all is on Jay Woodcroft. He seems to me at face value to be a good fit for this Ducks roster and a team that I think is ready to take the next step. Lots of signs of improvement this year but an incompetent coach held them back in a lot of ways.

I watched a recent interview he did with Frank Seravelli and I was impressed how he really seems to have dedicated himself to getting better while unemployed but I’m curious from you all’s perspective where you kind of stand on him.

Also….

Beat LA.

If you wanna succeed, don't even consider touching Woodcroft with a ten foot pole

 

[La Bamba]

It's wild to me that there are still Jack Campbell defenders out there.

The Oilers were not going to win the Vegas series (and especially not the cup) with Jack Campbell in net. He was literally the worst goalie in the NHL that season. Woodcroft didn't misread the goaltending situation by not putting him in. He knew exactly what he had in Campbell. A good relief appearance against LA didn't change who he is.

I think if Woodcroft had an option like Pickard he makes the swap but starting Campbell wasn't ever an option.

I have to respectfully disagree with this one. For the 2023 playoffs, Campbell was the hot hand and had a track record of going on impressive hot streaks. Instead, he chose to go back to a tired out Skinner repeatedly.

Putting Campbell in would’ve been a tough choice but a good coach is able to make those type of decisions. Knoblauch didn’t repeat this mistake in the Vancouver series when Skinner clearly needed a reset.

The Oilers had McDrai at the peak of their powers that year and many other guys having career seasons. It was all sunk by bad coaching and personnel decisions. It should’ve been a Cup win season against that Florida team.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Not a bad assessment but a little over-the-counter top

You left out stubborn, which led to his demise. But he is young enough and hopefully learned a thing or to. I definitely prefer him alot more now that we have knob behind the bench

You know me by now —- OVER THE TOP I GO!!!

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Coaching gets wildly overrated and this is an organization that has hired a barrelful of them while each year watching patterns of wildly volatile play re-occur despite who's behind the bench. Woodcroft initially brought some stability being promoted from within the organization and effectively rode a very good team's positive regression from x-numbers to actual production.

Where coaching has a greater effect on team success is in playoff series based hockey which requires game planning and adjustments within games and series to mitigate opposition strategy. An inexperienced Woodcroft was take to school by Vegas's veteran elite coach Bruce Cassidy failing to adjust to a dominating Eichel line matchup and rigidly sticking with his goaltender. Vegas also won in the margins with stronger team structure while Oiler personnel breakdowns were costly. He also resorted to weird things like practicing with different lines and changing them at game time in a very ham fisted way to try to have a psychological effect on opposing, deeply experienced playoff coaches. In a similar situation as an in-experienced coach in playoff hockey, Knoblauch showed greater resolve and situational read with his roster and nimble to make in game deployment changes including a big brass balls move to change goaltenders with the Canucks playoff series in the brink. Of course Knoblauch's 'magic' has dulled this season with the return of highly volatile big dips in team play and results along with regression numbers pretty much across the board in team performance. This is a big playoff now for Knoblauch with team adversity through injury, return of highly volatile regular season play, and actual result regression across basically all areas.

Woodcroft is a decent younger coach who might get an NHL job but also might have to take a step back into AHL head coaching to establish his bonafides without an elite roster that reset and built even better results under Knoblauch which carried a historic run to a game 7 Cup Final. There's enough actual team results after being fired to question Woodcroft's coaching and leadership ability. I think that's why he hasn't been hired among the first wave of replacement coaches since he was fired.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

I wrote a massively loquatious essay on the subject of Woodcroft before I hit delete.

Here's a quicker rundown of my thoughts:

Leafs and Oilers went through transformations when we hired hardass oldschool systems coaches like TMac/Tippett/Babcock. They might not be popular? but they were VERY instrumental in getting both of our teams back into the playoffs with the flawwed rosters we had. They also taught a level of professionalism and respect for the team.

Before those guys we were floundering with first-time coaches or run-and-gunners who looked for innovations and shortcuts. Taylor Hall and Jordan Eberle were both absolute messes on the Oilers, but they both went on to do much better things when they were in more insulated systems on better teams. Same could be said for Kessel, Bozak, Kadri, and Schenn.

Woodcroft should be viewed more like Dan Bylsma. Their success as a coach came from having 2 of the best players in the league, but when they were replaced their respective teams both became immediately better.
Woodcroft in Anaheim will likely playout similar to how Byslma's time in Buffalo went.

Different coaches are better for different players and roster makeup. Like PoMo being reviled in Winnipeg, but winning a cup in Florida.


I like Woodcroft just fine. He took our team farther than Tippett/TMac ever did, but I don't think we would've been able to get them to play as cohesively without Tippett/TMac being there first, just like the Penguins were an absolute disaster until Michel Therrien got there, and Bylsma was the direct beneficiary of that.


I also saw on your board that some of your posters were interested in Todd Nelson (Who we all seem to really like).

Nelson could very well be the next Pete Deboer. No f***ing idea. I wish he had a bigger chance here. He's been absolutely killing it for 20 years in lower leagues, and its an absolute travesty he's never been given much of a chance.

 

[Satoru Gojo]

He cost us the Cup in 2023. That team was stacked but he failed to read the goaltending situation properly and got outcoached even though he had the best NHL roster

He was good in 2022, I’ll give him that and only that

I think it was just a new coach bump

 

[La Bamba]

I think it was just a new coach bump

Honestly, it probably was. I liked the way the team played versus LA and Calgary that year but they eventually got outclassed by a Colorado team (even with injuries) that was ridiculously stacked

 

[KCC]

Remember when he tried to change the team defensive system but had no idea what he was doing? That is why he was fired. Knobblauch came in and instantly did just that. We all remember that, right? lol.

 

[GMofOilers]

Yeah Woody came in and brought some confidence to the room but couldn’t do much more else. When it came to adjustments he just couldn’t do it. Has he learnt anything from the firing I doubt it.

 

[tiger_80]

Hello Oil Country,

I’m curious as a Ducks fan what the general consensus of you all is on Jay Woodcroft. He seems to me at face value to be a good fit for this Ducks roster and a team that I think is ready to take the next step. Lots of signs of improvement this year but an incompetent coach held them back in a lot of ways.

I watched a recent interview he did with Frank Seravelli and I was impressed how he really seems to have dedicated himself to getting better while unemployed but I’m curious from you all’s perspective where you kind of stand on him.

Also….

Beat LA.

You don't have a prayer. He's an unstable former girlfriend who's still dreaming of getting back with her ex.

 

[tiger_80]

Yes, Woodcroft is the perfect coach if you want to assemble 5 more years of top picks. Theres reasons no other club picked up on him.

People that have constantly talk about or strive to "getting better", another way to look at that is that they're not very good. Jay Woodcroft is the coaching equivalent of Stuart Skinner. No wonder they loved each other so much.

Woody Skinner.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Smart systems coach who does a good job communicating with younger guys. Though he struggles to adjust his tactics when they're getting picked apart. (A common trait for Babcock disciples; TMac is/was the exact same).

Weirdly he's s great at forced adjustment (I.e. after an injury) and finding the right fix, but he's super slow bouncing to the hot hand when he's not forced to.

Imo he dislikes moving guys down the lineup after they've had a run of success, even if it was just a hot streak and they've gone ice cold. There was never a lot of internal competition for minutes/opportunity, you get your role and you stay there.

Him and Manson were also hyper strict on the whole you don't play your offside. Vinny and Ceci are getting torn apart by Vegas? Well it's not like we can play Kulak on his offside as an answer. Skinner looks overwhelmed in the playoffs and Campbell's played well? Too bad, ride or die with Stu!


I think this is why he worked well in the AHL were rosters are super fluid, where guys that performed well graduated and he got a new, continually rotating crop to work with and find fits for.

 

[McDNicks17]

Smart systems coach who does a good job communicating with younger guys. Though he struggles to adjust his tactics when they're getting picked apart. (A common trait for Babcock disciples; TMac is/was the exact same).

Weirdly he's s great at forced adjustment (I.e. after an injury) and finding the right fix, but he's super slow bouncing to the hot hand when he's not forced to.

Imo he dislikes moving guys down the lineup after they've had a run of success, even if it was just a hot streak and they've gone ice cold. There was never a lot of internal competition for minutes/opportunity, you get your role and you stay there.

Him and Manson were also hyper strict on the whole you don't play your offside. Vinny and Ceci are getting torn apart by Vegas? Well it's not like we can play Kulak on his offside as an answer. Skinner looks overwhelmed in the playoffs and Campbell's played well? Too bad, ride or die with Stu!


I think this is why he worked well in the AHL were rosters are super fluid, where guys that performed well graduated and he got a new, continually rotating crop to work with and find fits for.

I kind of found him to be the opposite.

He was OK running his/McLellan's system, but when they asked him to swap to the 1-3-1, it was clear he was in way over his head. The team didn't have a clue what they were doing.

The struggles with adjustments also probably comes from only being able to play that one system in that one way.

 

[MessierThanThou]

Hello Oil Country,

I’m curious as a Ducks fan what the general consensus of you all is on Jay Woodcroft. He seems to me at face value to be a good fit for this Ducks roster and a team that I think is ready to take the next step. Lots of signs of improvement this year but an incompetent coach held them back in a lot of ways.

I watched a recent interview he did with Frank Seravelli and I was impressed how he really seems to have dedicated himself to getting better while unemployed but I’m curious from you all’s perspective where you kind of stand on him.

Also….

Beat LA.

I can sum up, in one sentence, why your team, nor any other, should never, ever even consider hiring him: Oilers go from a lottery team to a franchise-record winning streak that even the Gretzky Oilers couldn't achieve and literally all they did was replace Woodcroft.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I kind of found him to be the opposite.

He was OK running his/McLellan's system, but when they asked him to swap to the 1-3-1, it was clear he was in way over his head. The team didn't have a clue what they were doing.

The struggles with adjustments also probably comes from only being able to play that one system in that one way.

Yeah I should have explained that better, but you're correct.

What I meant is he'll run his system well (which is just TMac's/Babcock's system with a different set of paint), and it will be highly detailed/ in-depth. But when asked to adjust in-game (or after an offseason...) it doesn't go well.

 

[rboomercat90]

If you want a coach who will always be on the all encompassing pursuit of the next solution then he’s your man. If you want something different look elsewhere.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I have to respectfully disagree with this one. For the 2023 playoffs, Campbell was the hot hand and had a track record of going on impressive hot streaks. Instead, he chose to go back to a tired out Skinner repeatedly.

Putting Campbell in would’ve been a tough choice but a good coach is able to make those type of decisions. Knoblauch didn’t repeat this mistake in the Vancouver series when Skinner clearly needed a reset.

The Oilers had McDrai at the peak of their powers that year and many other guys having career seasons. It was all sunk by bad coaching and personnel decisions. It should’ve been a Cup win season against that Florida team.

Bang, and precisely. Good post.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

IMO he is one of the best teaching coaches, very good at telling players not only what they need to do, but why they need to do it. He's also very much a players coach keeping a pretty good relationship with his guys. He's also good at giving the offensive guys enough leash to put up good numbers and runs a solid PP, though it's less a PP system and more like a catalogue of set plays, that does not only take time, but roster stability to really get it to flourish to its fullest.

My knocks on him is sometimes he would cater the system too much to the players strengths and weaknesses in a way that at times didn't challenge them to evolve as players. Not really a crack the whip or give a great motivational speech kind of coach, so the group needs to be self motivated. His playoff adjustments to systems were on the slow side, leading to him getting outcoached in some playoff series.

 

[Heavy Dee]

If no one hires him this cycle he is probably done as a HC candidate.

 

[The Panther]

Highly technical but arrogant as hell coach.

There is a reason he hasn't got another job.

Disagree with this. What was 'arrogant' about him?

 

[MessierThanThou]

I have to respectfully disagree with this one. For the 2023 playoffs, Campbell was the hot hand and had a track record of going on impressive hot streaks. Instead, he chose to go back to a tired out Skinner repeatedly.

Putting Campbell in would’ve been a tough choice but a good coach is able to make those type of decisions. Knoblauch didn’t repeat this mistake in the Vancouver series when Skinner clearly needed a reset.

The Oilers had McDrai at the peak of their powers that year and many other guys having career seasons. It was all sunk by bad coaching and personnel decisions. It should’ve been a Cup win season against that Florida team.

Playing Skinner lost us that series and the numbers agree with the eye test. He finished 26th out of 28 goalies in GSAx for the entire postseason. How do you possibly overcome THAT?

It's been well over a year since Woodcroft was fired and he still doesn't have a job. I don't expect that to change, despite the rumors... It's a bad look when a team goes from the doldrums to a franchise-record winning streak and literally all they did was replace you and your assistants, not to mention going from a second round exit to Game 7 of the SCF under your replacement (albeit with some slight roster upgrades). I'm not going to disagree with 31 other teams.

It's wild to me that there are still Jack Campbell defenders out there.

The Oilers were not going to win the Vegas series (and especially not the cup) with Jack Campbell in net. He was literally the worst goalie in the NHL that season. Woodcroft didn't misread the goaltending situation by not putting him in. He knew exactly what he had in Campbell. A good relief appearance against LA didn't change who he is.

I think if Woodcroft had an option like Pickard he makes the swap but starting Campbell wasn't ever an option.

Campbell played objectively better in relief of Skinner during those playoffs. Woody had every reason to give him an opportunity after Skinner totally imploded. There isn't a single stat or metric that agrees with your take here. Some goalies just get hot during the playoffs and it's in the best interest of the team to ride it out.

That said, his regular season performances earned him a demotion and buyout. I don't think anyone has ever questioned that decision.

 

[The Panther]

I thought he was good. Coached the club to a better record than Tippett ever had, and won three playoff series (the most since 2006 by any coach).

As you can see on this thread, Oiler fans on this forum are weird and care more about coaches' demeanor and post-game quotations than about results. Woodcroft was a bit of a windbag in his pressers, but who cares? The club won a lot of games under him and seemed to like him.

The only thing that suffered a bit under Woodcroft was team defence (for all of 15 games) when the genius organization decided to force a particular defensive system on the club, going against the grain of the coaching staff. This, combined with injuries to the club's best forward and defencenan, got Woodcroft fired.