Value of: Jay Bouwmeester

[The Examiner]

OK, counter-proposal to acquire Joffrey Lupul:

Jbo+Lehtera+Upshall for Lupul+Michalek+Matthews

We get it, the OP shouldn't have included Fabbri in his original proposal and he conceded as much in a subsequent post (which I'm assuming you didn't bother reading). Even though the point of the thread is JBo and NOT his proposal. I'm not sure why you're still obsessing over it.

Now are going to actually add to the discussion of whether or not the Blues should trade JBo or are you going to continue to act like a child who just had their favourite toy taken away?

 

[Majorityof1]

First, bad proposals get fans up in arms and the OPs proposal was really bad. So of course, its going to derail the topic. That said, on Bouwmeester, the timing sucks right now to trade Bouwmeester.

Its something that several Blues fans have considered. He is not the best partner for Pietrangelo on the first pair stylistically. But we don't have a better match internally. While we have 3 great defensemen in Shattenkirk, Parayko and Pietrangelo, none of them have shown the ability to play on their off hand. There is no point in trying with Petro as he is world-class on his natural side. Shattenkirk is a disaster on his off-side. Parayko could learn but he is young and that is a big ask. Our LHD after JBO are better suited to the bottom 4 with Gunnar being the best and at best a #4D. So we need to get a LHD to replace JBO before we trade him and the market is pretty dried up now. So the timing sucks.

If we somehow had a deal in place for a LHD, say Shattenkirk for McDonough. Then we'd want forward futures for Jbo or a #2RW/3 RW. Or we would be happy to package him with Lehtera for a center upgrade. I'd do something around JBo + Lehtera for Kadri+ maybe.

Is that an answer?

 

[Toronto makebeleifs]

First, bad proposals get fans up in arms and the OPs proposal was really bad. So of course, its going to derail the topic. That said, on Bouwmeester, the timing sucks right now to trade Bouwmeester.

Its something that several Blues fans have considered. He is not the best partner for Pietrangelo on the first pair stylistically. But we don't have a better match internally. While we have 3 great defensemen in Shattenkirk, Parayko and Pietrangelo, none of them have shown the ability to play on their off hand. There is no point in trying with Petro as he is world-class on his natural side. Shattenkirk is a disaster on his off-side. Parayko could learn but he is young and that is a big ask. Our LHD after JBO are better suited to the bottom 4 with Gunnar being the best and at best a #4D. So we need to get a LHD to replace JBO before we trade him and the market is pretty dried up now. So the timing sucks.

If we somehow had a deal in place for a LHD, say Shattenkirk for McDonough. Then we'd want forward futures for Jbo or a #2RW/3 RW. Or we would be happy to package him with Lehtera for a center upgrade. I'd do something around JBo + Lehtera for Kadri+ maybe.

Is that an answer?

Better answer than most, yes actually.

 

[bluetuned]

I like JayBo, but at this point he's probably best suited to being a 2nd pairing defenseman (of which he would be above average). He has lost a step since he injured his groin, and his speed was always his biggest asset. He's still a great skater, but he's not what he was when the Blues acquired him.

IF Parayko could prove to be an effective player on the left side, I would absolutely consider trading Bouwmeester. Then they can try to lock up Shattenkirk with the money saved. It's just a tall task that I'm not sure Parayko can pull off. Petro and Shattenkirk have both struggled on the left side. Parayko is a better athlete with more speed than either, so I think of any of them he could do it, but I'm not sure the Blues will bother trying.

The other option would be trying to swap Shattenkirk for comparable LHD, which would allow the Blues to move Bouwmeester for help somewhere else. Gunnarsson is a solid #4, and guys like Edmundson and Lindbohm are respectable on the 3rd pairing, and will hopefully continue to improve.

But without one of those two above scenarios happening, the Blues can't afford to trade JayBo.

 

[PAZ]

Someone else mentioned it in here, but there's something popping up about JBow that's been driving me crazy lately and that's his contract.

I've seen on multiple occasions poster talking about his contract and how expensive he is, etc,etc. He's isn't being paid like a #1 anymore, I would actually consider JBow a bargain for what he can offer a team with less defensive depth than St. Louis. He's making 5.4 mil for 3 more years, that's a freaking bargain for a player fully capable of playing 1st pairing minutes. He can still skate like the wind and move the puck, his production has dipped, but he's making less than Smid. Let that sink in for a minute, Ladislav Smid makes more than Jbow(I think they signed their respective contracts within the same year) Jbo is no longer a franchise #1 defenseman, but he's a damned good #2 on a really good contract, and could easily be a #1 for a non cup caliber team.

Last time I checked 5.4 mil > 3.5 mil.

If you're going to use Smid as one of your main points, at least take 5 seconds and make use of google. Bouwmeester is obviously a better defenseman that Smid, which is why he's paid more. I don't know about you, but I don't want to pay Bouwmeester 5.4 mil when he's 34. If he was 2-3 years younger your point would stand, but the fact he's getting paid 5.4 mil for the next 3 years is going to lower his value, not raise it.

 

[Majorityof1]

Last time I checked 5.4 mil > 3.5 mil.

If you're going to use Smid as one of your main points, at least take 5 seconds and make use of google. Bouwmeester is obviously a better defenseman that Smid, which is why he's paid more. I don't know about you, but I don't want to pay Bouwmeester 5.4 mil when he's 34. If he was 2-3 years younger your point would stand, but the fact he's getting paid 5.4 mil for the next 3 years is going to lower his value, not raise it.

Agreed. Let's look at two comparables that signed recently. First Goligoski. He signed for about what JBO makes. You can argue that he is a 2nd pairing guy (or at least will be behind OEL). But he also provides an offensive and PP component that JBO now lacks. Goligoski is capable of logging big minutes too (logged more last year than JBo. I value Goli a good bit higher due to his offensive upside, but they make basically the same money, and their contract take them up to the same age. The other comparable is Hamhuis, and I'd say a closer comparable in value. Hamhuis signed a 3 year deal for $1.65M less.

I'd easily swap either player for JBo given the contract/value. And those are contracts that were just handed out in free agency. We could have possibly had either player for that. Both were new teams, so neither gave a hometown discount. Jbo's contract isn't terrible, as its definitely not cap dump status. However, it is worse than recent UFA contracts and probably negatively impacts his value.

 

[Lunatik]

I would love to have Bouwmeester back on the Flames. LH defenseman that can play defense is our biggest need.

 

[Got One Cup]

Jbow is more important to the Blues than people realize. He puts in a lot of minutes against the best forwards on the ice and makes few mistakes while doing it. We wouldn't get back what he is worth to us. Our left side d isn't that strong after him, I would consider trading Shattenkirk for and equal left handed dman...

 

[Lunatik]

Jbow is more important to the Blues than people realize. He puts in a lot of minutes against the best forwards on the ice and makes few mistakes while doing it. We wouldn't get back what he is worth to us. Our left side d isn't that strong after him, I would consider trading Shattenkirk for and equal left handed dman...

Bouwmeester is one of the most underrated players in the game IMO. He's a very good defenseman and is well above average in everything but physicality and his shot.

 

[Skobel24]

I'd love to add Bouw back onto the Flames, but it won't happen

Gio - Brodie
Bouwmeester - Hamilton

 

[Sykie]

Bouwmeester is one of the most underrated players in the game IMO. He's a very good defenseman and is well above average in everything but physicality and his shot.

Agreed.

And even there, I would still argue he is more physical than most would give him credit for. He may not slash people around in the back, but he certainly doesn't hesitate to throw his 210lbs around.

One of the most underrated player in the game. Has been for years.

 

[GrayZack]

OP needs to realise that not all Defencemen are interchangeable. The Blues are moving Shattenkirk because of Parayko upside, in the fact that Hitch beleive Parayko will be soon a 25min a night defenceman. Shattenkirk Parayko and Petro play Right Defencemen. where as Bouwmeester plays on the left side. They are not the same position, even though we just call them D. There is a major difference from play either side.

The Blues need Bouwmeester on LD, however we dont have a need for Shattenkrik on RD anymore, there just is not enough ice time to get full value out of Petro/Shatty/Parayko. and plus we have up and coming Jordan Schmaltz on RD, and Robert Bortuzzo is a great RD on a 3rd line.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Bouw could be available if the Blues were to acquire another left-D to replace him but I don't see it happening. And there's really no spot for Shatty. He, Petro and Parayko all play the right side and none of the 3 look very good on the left side. One simply needs to be moved and Shatty's the odd man out.

 

[LetsGoBLUES91]

Wow, someone that get it. Kudos sir.

Someone with the offer you proposed in the OP should never talk to anyone about "getting it".

As for J-Bo's value. He'd be a great salary to get rid of even though he's still pretty good. Without his salary we can lock up every young player we have including Shatty. And not have to worry.

I'd trade him for basically anything of slight value. Toronto's 2nd would do it.

 

[Bubblhead00]

Bouw could be available if the Blues were to acquire another left-D to replace him but I don't see it happening. And there's really no spot for Shatty. He, Petro and Parayko all play the right side and none of the 3 look very good on the left side. One simply needs to be moved and Shatty's the odd man out.

You could swap Shattenkirk for Fowler then trade Bouwmeester. But that is alot of moving parts.

The 1st would help the Ducks by freeing up a year of contract. Fowler 2 years Shattenkirk 1 year remaining. Then they could trade Shattenkirk at deadline.

The Blues would gain a solid LD. To take Bouwmeesters spot. Weather he is traded or exposed in expansion draft.

 

[STL fan in MN]

You could swap Shattenkirk for Fowler then trade Bouwmeester. But that is alot of moving parts.

The 1st would help the Ducks by freeing up a year of contract. Fowler 2 years Shattenkirk 1 year remaining. Then they could trade Shattenkirk at deadline.

The Blues would gain a solid LD. To take Bouwmeesters spot. Weather he is traded or exposed in expansion draft.

I'd absolutely love for that to happen but yeah, tons of moving parts, which makes it unlikely. It would require STL to want Fowler, ANA to want Shatty and then would require someone to want Bouwmeester at a price STL would sell him for.

 

[westc2]

Why would we get rid of our top pairing LHD?....Neither Shatty nor Parayko play left side.

 

[westc2]

I'd absolutely love for that to happen but yeah, tons of moving parts, which makes it unlikely. It would require STL to want Fowler, ANA to want Shatty and then would require someone to want Bouwmeester at a price STL would sell him for.

Not to mention Bouwmeester's age/contract would make him pretty difficult to move even if the Blues were willing to lose on the trade.

 

[KingTux]

So in looking at St. Louis' situation with shattenkirk, I personally think they try and keep him. Now if that does happen, they'll have an excellent defensive corps with some decent prospects coming up as well. Could management consider moving Jay bow for some assets up front for another potential cup run? From the leafs I'd offer jvr+marincin+michalek for jbow+ lehtera+ Fabbri.

And Here. We. Go