Value of: Jason Zucker

[rt]

Whatever happens from here, we’ve talked through this and our chasm has become a crack. So that’s something.

 

[Bazeek]

9/10 of my comments are dumb. Haha.

To me, Fischer is a lot more valuable than Frolik. Calgary would have to add roughly ten value of Fischer to get me to even consider taking Frolik for free. That’s just my view. I was glad to be rid of Panik. I like Panik significantly better than Frolik. I wouldn’t take Panik back for free.

The Arizona pick is a lot more valuable than the Calgary pick. Even with lottery protection, it has the (very real and likely) potential to be 8-10 slots higher than the Calgary pick was likely to be at the TDL. Teams pay 2nd round picks all the time to move up that far in the draft.

I think the pick is significantly more valuable than the Calgary one and the player is significantly more valuable than the Calgary one.

I also see that we are having a tough time making the cap considerations work. I view that as an opportunity. There is an option that makes the cash work while also balancing the value out. Rebuilding teams often explore retention as a way to maximize value in trades. It’s an option.

Retaining on Zucker is unappealing because I don't think Minnesota would trade him with a 3-5 year rebuild in mind. They'd be looking to try to bounce back as early as next year when we add Kaprizov and maybe Boldy and our 2020 pick (depending on how bad/lucky we are). Three years of a little retention isn't a huge problem on it's face, but added on top of what we'll have to juggle with Parise, Suter, Zuccarello (maybe), and Spurgeon, it's harder.

Still, that's sort of assuming that other moves aren't made. If, for example, we also find a move for Zuccarello that sends some cap out it might not be a problem.

 

[Richard88]

Jost + a pick/prospect for Zucker

 

[Lapa]

Jost + a pick/prospect for Zucker

The thought of Zucker in an Avs jersey makes me puke, but I'd probably do this. I like Jost.

 

[rt]

Retaining on Zucker is unappealing because I don't think Minnesota would trade him with a 3-5 year rebuild in mind. They'd be looking to try to bounce back as early as next year when we add Kaprizov and maybe Boldy and our 2020 pick (depending on how bad/lucky we are). Three years of a little retention isn't a huge problem on it's face, but added on top of what we'll have to juggle with Parise, Suter, Zuccarello (maybe), and Spurgeon, it's harder.

Still, that's sort of assuming that other moves aren't made. If, for example, we also find a move for Zuccarello that sends some cap out it might not be a problem.

Hmmm. But that 1st won’t help you before Zucker’s contract is expired anyway. Why not just keep Zucker?

 

[Bazeek]

Hmmm. But that 1st won’t help you before Zucker’s contract is expired anyway. Why not just keep Zucker?

Too many LW's and he's one of the few guys we can move and get something decent for. You're right though, we don't really have to trade him.

 

[rt]

Too many LW's and he's one of the few guys we can move and get something decent for. You're right though, we don't really have to trade him.

Ah. I see. How about 25% retention? Or even just 20% retention? That’s 1.1m and if we add Fischer’s contract, it brings the net change down to about +3.5m for us, which we should be able to handle with the Hossa and Hjalmarsson LTIR.

With the cap poised to jump, that 1.1m shouldn’t sting too bad moving forward.

 

[2Pair]

Arizona pick is better than the Toronto pick. Toronto is a lock for the playoffs. Arizona is a bubble team. Certainly you don’t believe Zucker is worth a lottery pick. Obviously that’s not equitable. So there’s the condition.

Fischer is younger, cheaper and more valuable than McGinn. It was made clear that Goligoski is of no interest, so I’m open to other ideas for salary cap consideration. If there is no Goligoski and no retention, there needs to be something creative.

No there does not. Zucker is worth Fischer and your 1st. Ifyou need something more out of the deal, then you need to pay for that.

 

[rt]

No there does not. Zucker is worth Fischer and your 1st. Ifyou need something more out of the deal, then you need to pay for that.

Fischer and Arizona’s first is objectively, significantly better than Frolik and Calgary’s first at the 2019 TDL. In other words, Calgary’s fax machine disagrees with you.

That said, Fenton is gone. So you might be right.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I have two deals to use as precedent in this discussion, then. Frolik and a very late 1st as well as McGinn and a very late first. Arizona’s 1st is more valuable than either of those picks. Fischer is more valuable than either of those players.

How do we bridge the gap? How about a little retention.

K, I’ll take the Hurricanes deal. Bye.

 

[Digitalbooya]

No there does not. Zucker is worth Fischer and your 1st. Ifyou need something more out of the deal, then you need to pay for that.

I enjoy them trying to win both sides of that deal lol. Retention for 4 seasons... yeah, gonna need more than a late 1st+meh player.

 

[2Pair]

Fischer and Arizona’s first is objectively, significantly better than Frolik and Calgary’s first at the 2019 TDL. In other words, Calgary’s fax machine disagrees with you.

That said, Fenton is gone. So you might be right.

And even 25% of Zucker's contract is probably more valuable than Fischer. Frolik had as many goals as Fischer had points last year.

 

[TaLoN]

After calling out his coach he hurt his value

 

[BUX7PHX]

Great, so a top 10 protected first and Jenik. Sounds good.

Jenik wouldn't be available.

 

[2Pair]

Jenik wouldn't be available.

This might be the most obscure player I have ever seen be listed as untouchable. Any reason why he would be?

 

[BUX7PHX]

This might be the most obscure player I have ever seen be listed as untouchable. Any reason why he would be?

Give it two years. Looked impressive as hell over the summer. Probably was looked at as maybe a fringe top 10 prospect before camps and wound up probably our 3rd or 4th best behind Hayton and Soderstrom. He had 30 points in 27 games for Hamilton after he came over last year. Up to 18 points in 10 games this season as a 19 year old.

 

[2Pair]

Give it two years. Looked impressive as hell over the summer. Probably was looked at as maybe a fringe top 10 prospect before camps and wound up probably our 3rd or 4th best behind Hayton and Soderstrom. He had 30 points in 27 games for Hamilton after he came over last year. Up to 18 points in 10 games this season as a 19 year old.

None of that is impressive in the least for a player that age

 

[BUX7PHX]

FWIW, my offer would be Hinostroza, Mayo, and 2020 1st for Zucker at 20% retained and a 2021 3rd.

Hinostroza will likely top out at 40-45 points and I put him at a lock for at least 30. He is an RFA, so he should come in somewhere in the $2.6-3.2 M AAV. I think he can get to 20 goals, but not consistently.

Zucker is simply a better player than Hinostroza right now. He is a lock for 20 goals and 50 points most years.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I feel like the ducks should be in on zucker kreider or hoffman.

Is a 1st a must in minnasota fans opinion?

 

[rt]

None of that is impressive in the least for a player that age

That age? He’s six months older than Boldy? Not saying he’s impressive or untouchable or anything like that. Just confused by your word choice.

 

[2Pair]

That age? He’s six months older than Boldy? Not saying he’s impressive or untouchable or anything like that. Just confused by your word choice.

He's playing in his draft +2 year, no? I don't want to sound like the kid isn't any good. Was legitimately wondering why someone like that would be considered untouchable. The stats he has put up are nice, but they aren't close to being the reason that he shouldn't be traded.

 

[2Pair]

I feel like the ducks should be in on zucker kreider or hoffman.

Is a 1st a must in minnasota fans opinion?

I would rather have a young center than a 1st, but nobody wants to trade young players that have that kind of value

 

[rt]

He's playing in his draft +2 year, no? I don't want to sound like the kid isn't any good. Was legitimately wondering why someone like that would be considered untouchable. The stats he has put up are nice, but they aren't close to being the reason that he shouldn't be traded.

He’s six months and two weeks older than Boldy. Agreed on the stats. They’re fine but the Q is kind of a joke for scoring. That said, he was a first year import. They usually take a lot of time to get rolling. His second half was big and he’s picking up where he left off.

It’s not about the stats with him. He’s a nasty f***er. He’s involved in absolutely everything. Just a tremendous pain in the ass of a player. Works his bag off always. Always causing havoc. The coaches absolutely love him.

Having said all of that, he’s obviously not at all untouchable. He looks like a good value though. I definitely wouldn’t trade him for a 2nd rounder in this draft. I’d hesitate to trade him for a late first. Those are more illustrative examples of his value internally having increased.

Not that it’s anywhere near Zucker’s or anything.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I would rather have a young center than a 1st, but nobody wants to trade young players that have that kind of value

Yea young top 6 centers are tough to move. Were kinda in the same boat tho... hopefully steel lundy and zegras end up filling up center need tho. After that we have groulx who is more of a 3c and morand who is more of a project.

But was just curious, i think zucker would be a great fit... just dont know we have the right assets(available) for him.

 

[BUX7PHX]

He’s six months and two weeks older than Boldy. Agreed on the stats. They’re fine but the Q is kind of a joke for scoring. That said, he was a first year import. They usually take a lot of time to get rolling. His second half was big and he’s picking up where he left off.

It’s not about the stats with him. He’s a nasty ****er. He’s involved in absolutely everything. Just a tremendous pain in the ass of a player. Works his bag off always. Always causing havoc. The coaches absolutely love him.

Having said all of that, he’s obviously not at all untouchable. He looks like a good value though. I definitely wouldn’t trade him for a 2nd rounder in this draft. I’d hesitate to trade him for a late first. Those are more illustrative examples of his value internally having increased.

Not that it’s anywhere near Zucker’s or anything.

Not saying that the Coyotes are deep in the prospect pool (average, maybe).

But when a player under the age of 20 goes from your 10th best prospect to top 4, and not because of players graduating, I think that a team is probably going to label that player as untouchable. I would say that you at least do not want to have his name brought up in trades unless you are making a huge deal (I don't consider Zucker to be that type of player). At this point, there is enough upward trajectory that it doesn't make sense to move him. And as you said, since he is engaged in every aspect of play (he got roughed up in the rookie league games because he was so active, and still made his mark on games), why would we not consider him untouchable until something changes in his game that forces us to look at moving him (passiveness, lack of hitting ceiling, contract demand, etc.)?