Jason Botterill Discussion 3

[AustonsNostrils]

In 2 years he hasn't added ONE good player to the team. If you consider players like Hutton and Sheary good players the Sabres have lowered your standards.

doh ..... Skinner.

 

[OkimLom]

In 2 years he hasn't added ONE good player to the team. If you consider players like Hutton and Sheary good players the Sabres have lowered your standards.

Skinner is good, Montour is good but has faults (better than Risto)

 

[Buffaloed]

So I just listened to Botts interview on Howard & Jeremy that took place on Friday, and I have to say it sounded like I was listening to a totally different person. I gotta say I don't think I've ever heard him sound so laid back and loose, almost like Brandon Beane. Cause it always felt like he was uptight and business first on previous radio appearances. I wonder if that has to do with the Krueger hire, or if it's indicative of anything in general.

All this time he's been worried about getting fired. It has been making him a nervous wreck. Then he asked himself the key question, "what's the worst thing that can happen to me here?". And the answer was they don't fire me.

 

[dotcommunism]

Serious question for those of you that have a negative opinion of Botterill. What would need to happen in order for that to change?

First and foremost he needs to put in a bona fide effort to put a competitive team on the ice rather than being content with pissing away seasons.

 

[Sabre Dance]

In 2 years he hasn't added ONE good player to the team. If you consider players like Hutton and Sheary good players the Sabres have lowered your standards.

doh ..... Skinner.

Montour and Scandella were quality players when added to Buffalo.

Sheary was supposed to be a quality depth player.

 

[GellMann]

Things I like:
The leaky ship has been sealed.
Montour trade.
Skinner trade.
Re-signing Skinner (I still completely believe this happens)
Chris Taylor.
The apparent correct decisions with Olofsson, Asplund that led to what appears to hopefully be the first legitimate development we've seen from this franchise in years

Things that didn't turn out well, but I liked the spirit of:
Sheary, Scandella trades.
Hutton/Ullmark

Things I never liked and are checkmarks against him:
Phil Housley hire
ROR trade
center spine in general
being 0/10 on depth acquisitions (not really 10 but a non-negligible number either), just the handling of that half of the forward roster as a whole
The handling of Nylander, Smith, Thompson, and Mitts
That sixth rounder thing
Not doing anything when we had just won 10 games in a row but were also in the midst of a combined 100+ game stretch where the non-Eichel-and-Larsson lines, ie depth scoring, combined for a whopping 1 goal
Not doing anything after that, and allowing the team to slide into by far the worst season any team has ever had while being blessed with the luck that a 10+ game win streak requires

 

[Sabre Dance]

First and foremost he needs to put in a bona fide effort to put a competitive team on the ice rather than being content with pissing away seasons.

He chose to rebuild most of what Murray did instead of build on what Murray started.

 

[Chainshot]

He chose to rebuild most of what Murray did instead of build on what Murray started.

He chose to do nothing virtually. He has to stop pissing seasons down the drain.

 

[Baccus]

Steady improvement to the roster would be the first thing. If he can regularly find and acquire players who contribute at the NHL level, that would be a move in opinion of him.

Ending giving up conditions in almost every deal he makes would be a nice shift.

Operating consistent with his word without what appears to be bias toward players: send players down who are able to be sent down to the minors when they are clearly struggling, elevate players from the minors to play when they are clearly succeeding. Saying that internal competition is important is excellent, that earning ice time based on merit is excellent. NOT doing that is not consistent with operating consistent to his word and is going to erode the confidence of his players.

I would love it if he never opens his mouth again to lament things that are within his control as GM. That? That drives me nuts. Call-ups to get a look at guys, that's his control. Making selections late in the draft? Don't tell me you are basically done after punting on a 6th when some other team has leveraged a later pick in that draft into a higher pick in the next draft. That just looks inept. Stop looking inept. Start looking apt -- get that value in trade, make the roster move to get the look at farm hands, make the call to make sure the farm guys get the icetime to allow evaluation. Get the coach to buy in to the vision you have put forward to the fans -- Reinhart at center comes to mind -- rather than seemingly acting as though it is not within his power. Own the position. Set the agenda. Own the results.

Getting value in trades. He doesn't have to be Regier-esque in how long he holds on until he makes a deal. Nor does he have to "win" every deal. But value gained consistently would be another move in the right direction. That could be getting more for depth guys he has dealt or finding some advantage in making draft pick trades... ANYTHING there with regularity.

No GM is infallible, but my patience for his roster choices, his granting of trade conditions, the slowness with which he makes personnel changes in-season, and the foolishness that falls out of his mouth during candid moments.

Ultimately, when his acquisitions and hires start to win NHL games regularly will be the biggest barometer. Win games, a lot of the criticisms will disappear. Add buffoons, quantifiable buffoons who lose their matchups and lose games? He'll get roasted further.

Can we get this tattooed to Botts body/giant head in the hockey version of Memento?

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

He chose to do nothing virtually. He has to stop pissing seasons down the drain.

You know you’re not successful when fans have legitimate arguments over whether you’re purposely tanking or not.

The guy is still talking about how he’s banking on things like Sheary’s development for the team to be successful. Not sure how he’s selling all this to the owners but it sounds like he’s grasping at straws to me.

I’m pretty happy that he’s getting more comfortable in front of the media, that’s a definite plus. He’s one of the most awkward GMs I’ve ever heard.

 

[Chainshot]

You know you’re not successful when fans have legitimate arguments over whether you’re purposely tanking or not.

The guy is still talking about how he’s banking on things like Sheary’s development for the team to be successful. Not sure how he’s selling all this to the owners but it sounds like he’s grasping at straws to me.

I’m pretty happy that he’s getting more comfortable in front of the media, that’s a definite plus. He’s one of the most awkward GMs I’ve ever heard.

I am hoping he was pumping Conor's tires with that commentary. Lord knows he was deployed in a way that should've reaped benefits 5-on-5. And instead, he got his teeth kicked in.

 

[Sabre the Win]

I think Botterill wanted to do the right thing when he traded ROR, but he was wrong about Sobotka and Berglund. Also I believe that we do not need a legal 2C on a permanent basis because we have Casey and we could take on the draft of Turcotte/Krebs/Dach or Zegras, we would have two potecial 2C in the person of Casey and one of this four, we need a temporary center, and better two to one played on the wing in the top 6, but could go to the center if the first would not be able to close this position. Relatively speaking Erik Haula and Rikard Rakell, both can play 2C and both can play on the wing, when Casey and Turcotte/Krebs/Dach or Zegras progressing, Haula or Rakell go on the wing. Also do not forget that we can always try Reinhart as 2C.

He hasnt even proved hes competent enough to warrant being a center (at least nothing ive seen of him). I've said it all along, the kid is going to carve himself a nice career on the wing. We shouldn't exclude drafting centers or trading for perminent centers due to whimsical fantasy of Mittlestadt becoming an actual good center.

It's not to say he cant or wont but I wouldn't be building this team around Mittlestadt being center until he actually proves he can play center. If you have the chance to add a legit center like Duchene for 7 years, you do it. If you have the chance to add someone young that's already showing capabilities of playing center you do it than worry about Mittlestadt. He can either be traded or play on the wing.

 

[Fjordy]

He hasnt even proved hes competent enough to warrant being a center (at least nothing ive seen of him). I've said it all along, the kid is going to carve himself a nice career on the wing. We shouldn't exclude drafting centers or trading for perminent centers due to whimsical fantasy of Mittlestadt becoming an actual good center.

It's not to say he cant or wont but I wouldn't be building this team around Mittlestadt being center until he actually proves he can play center. If you have the chance to add a legit center like Duchene for 7 years, you do it. If you have the chance to add someone young that's already showing capabilities of playing center you do it than worry about Mittlestadt.

Well, let give him a normal partners on the wing and limit the time in 3C, not to throw the guy right into the Inferno, it is necessary to properly develop players.

Duchene won't go to Buffalo.

 

[Sabre the Win]

To be fair, 2C means different things to different people.

I think most people would want Mittelstadt in a sheltered, high Ozone start position and think we need to add a high defensive zone % center.

Is 2C defined by 2nd most offensive production or 2nd most TOI?

Casey hasnt proven he can be used in either role to do the job at center effectively more than 14 minutes. We need a center who is gonna play 18 minutes a night that can compete with teams top players, someone like ROR who could give Eichel a rest.

 

[sabremike]

Casey hasnt proven he can be used in either role to do the job at center effectively more than 14 minutes. We need a center who is gonna play 18 minutes a night that can compete with teams top players, someone like ROR who could give Eichel a rest.

I mean at this point he hasn't even proven he's a credible NHL level player yet, much less that he can't play center. (operative word here is "Yet")

 

[sabremike]

Double Post, phone acting wonky.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

First and foremost he needs to put in a bona fide effort to put a competitive team on the ice rather than being content with pissing away seasons.

How does he do that without pissing away futures that are vital to building the organizational depth, that has been depleted over the last decade or more from terrible scouting/drafting?

I know the answers I get will be, "sign that guy instead of the other guy", which are moves that barely move the needle. Or, "don't make the ROR trade" when he was between a rock and a hard place. Or, "play that Rochester guy instead of Thompson/Mitts", which again, doesn't move the needle much for overall team success. Or, "fire Housley sooner", well ok whatever...

Bottom line is there aren't significant moves to improve the team from bad to playoff contender unless they sacrifice quality futures, which is what the team has done in the past. Played rookies before they were ready, just because the roster players were terrible, which has already been done in the past.

I realize this is a rhetorical post, because the complaints are repetitive and rhetorical, and this thread will go nowhere and change nobody's outlook. Glad I just wasted eight minutes.

 

[Jame]

How does he do that without pissing away futures that are vital to building the organizational depth, that has been depleted over the last decade or more from terrible scouting/drafting?

I know the answers I get will be, "sign that guy instead of the other guy", which are moves that barely move the needle. Or, "don't make the ROR trade" when he was between a rock and a hard place. Or, "play that Rochester guy instead of Thompson/Mitts", which again, doesn't move the needle much for overall team success. Or, "fire Housley sooner", well ok whatever...

Bottom line is there aren't significant moves to improve the team from bad to playoff contender unless they sacrifice quality futures, which is what the team has done in the past. Played rookies before they were ready, just because the roster players were terrible, which has already been done in the past.

I realize this is a rhetorical post, because the complaints are repetitive and rhetorical, and this thread will go nowhere and change nobody's outlook. Glad I just wasted eight minutes.

It’s only rhetorical because of your attempt to dismiss legitimate answers.

Not only were there better moves/signings out there each year, but the real failure of your perspective is in dismissing the hypothetical marginal improvements as if they don’t move the needle.

Of course the irony of your argument is that Botts DID sacrifice quality futures... and still failed to improve the team.

 

[old kummelweck]

In 2 years he hasn't added ONE good player to the team. If you consider players like Hutton and Sheary good players the Sabres have lowered your standards.

doh ..... Skinner.

Montour?

 

[old kummelweck]

I mean at this point he hasn't even proven he's a credible NHL level player yet, much less that he can't play center. (operative word here is "Yet")

He's another one with not much of a track record. I expected more from him at MN.

 

[Tsyolin]

Montour?

Pilut as well.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

It’s only rhetorical because of your attempt to dismiss legitimate answers.

Not only were there better moves/signings out there each year, but the real failure of your perspective is in dismissing the hypothetical marginal improvements as if they don’t move the needle.

Of course the irony of your argument is that Botts DID sacrifice quality futures... and still failed to improve the team.

It's not that he couldn't make ANY better moves at all. It's that ANY GM in Buffalo doesn't get the same opportunities to sign better vet UFAs or undrafted FAs. Even if he did, he would have to play ALL his cards right to have a playoff contender on the ice right now. Now the exception is getting a good HC, because I think a better HC can make a bigger difference than any FA fodder signings. That's been addressed, and I'm not sure how much to criticize a Sabres GM about HC hires when no big-name guys ever seem to be banging on their door.

I also don't expect a Sabres GM to go full out draft and development, as if he can't ever trade a pick or prospect, just to go heavy in that route. Still though, what "quality" futures do you mean? A late 1st in the Montour trade did in fact improve the team with a PMRHD under team control. What other quality futures are you referencing? Guhle doesn't count IMO, but I'm sure you'll say he does (that's fine, opinions and all). The 2nd and 3rd in the Skinner trade doesn't count unless Skinner walks. Bellow all you want if he does...I won't be happy about it either. It's a Kane-esque trade (which I clearly hated), but for a player a I have a slightly better opinion of that didn't seem guaranteed to leave when he hit UFA...we'll see...

 

[old kummelweck]

I also don't think people give Botterill enough credit for how he's handled contracts for Reinhart, Larsson, and Girgensons.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I also don't think people give Botterill enough credit for how he's handled contracts for Reinhart, Larsson, and Girgensons.

What a great job - he saved cap dollars when we didn’t need the savings at the expense of additional future cap space, when it will matter a ton. Cap genius indeed.

 

[Baccus]

You think the bridge for Reinhart was a good idea?

I mean I don't know what Reinhart was looking for on a long term deal, but right now the bridge is saving us cap space for when the Sabres don't need it/aren't using it and I don't see the Sabres getting a "better" long term deal after next season compared to the end of his ELC.