Jared Bednar Discussion

[dahrougem2]

No doubt the Avs are not playing good hockey at the moment, but they are still winning. And goaltender is the one position that cannot actually win you a game. The team in front of them still needs to score more than the opposition. Blackwood and Wedgewood are certainly giving the team the opportunity to win every night, but they still need to go out and do it.

This is a slump, but unlike shitty teams, we're still able to keep winning during it. We don't need to fire a coach every time we don't play well. No team plays well the whole year. Edmonton started out like garbage once again. We started out like shit for 4 or so games. Seasons are long and ebb and flow. Bednar isn't on the hot seat every time we lose.

Again, though, a "slump" is not supposed to last 47 days. We're almost two months into extremely shitty hockey from the Avs. They are 30th (!!!!) in high danger chances generated 5v5. This team doesn't generate ANYTHING offensively. Even the f***ing San Jose Sharks generate more since December 1st. We're 22nd in high danger chances against in that time, too. Every single team beneath us since that time is outside of a playoff spot except for Toronto.

We're 27th in xGF and 20th in xGA.

The only saving grace since that time is we're 7th overall in SV%, and that includes the game Georgiev played when he got shelled by Buffalo for 4 in the 1st.

There are ebbs and flows to a season, yes, but they should never be this low. This is insanely concerning.

 

[Balthazar]

Again, though, a "slump" is not supposed to last 47 days. We're almost two months into extremely shitty hockey from the Avs. They are 30th (!!!!) in high danger chances generated 5v5. This team doesn't generate ANYTHING offensively. Even the f***ing San Jose Sharks generate more since December 1st. We're 22nd in high danger chances against in that time, too. Every single team beneath us since that time is outside of a playoff spot except for Toronto.

We're 27th in xGF and 20th in xGA.

The only saving grace since that time is we're 7th overall in SV%, and that includes the game Georgiev played when he got shelled by Buffalo for 4 in the 1st.

There are ebbs and flows to a season, yes, but they should never be this low. This is insanely concerning.

Anyone who watches the games can tell they are bad even when they win.

The worst part is you posted 5v5 stats but our PP is worse. We're like 31st in the league in January.

 

[Avsfan1921]

It would really be something if they fired a coach who is currently on a 7-2-2 (or whatever it is) stretch lol. Metrics be damned, it’s not likely to happen until they actually have a prolonged losing streak.

 

[SirLoinOfCloth]

Injuries may not be an excuse but they sure as hell add context. When have we had a healthy top-6? We're constantly playing guys out of position, and filling in with a bunch of shit AHL players. Look at the rotating door of AHLers we've had playing. I think this team is outperforming what they should be with such a decimated lineup. We're not playing well, but we're mostly keeping pace. Bednar can only do what he can do with a lineup that consists of:

Ludvig
Polin
Innala
Felhaber
Olausson
Middleton (although he's been ok)
Smith
Wagner
Prischepov
Bradley

These guys mostly suck ass. And yet, there's one or two of them every night on the roster. The 4th line as a result is getting no time on ice. The top guys are being expected to play large minutes and pick up the slack. And because of injuries to guys in the top 6 we've got third and fourth liners filling in spots they should never be expected to for prolonged periods. Its not just a shift or game or two. Its weeks.

This is compounded by the Kadri-esque slump from hell of Casey Mittelstadt. If he moves down to the fourth line, someone else takes his spot. Yet another player playing out of position.

This roster has been completely f***ed from day one. The fact we're where we are is remarkable. But find another coach in the universe who could deal with this shit as well or better than Bednar.

Bednar is a good dude, a smart guy, and has shown he can get the best out of players. Look at all the success players coming into his system have had: Nuke, Drouin, etc. But he can only do so much with the cards he's been dealt.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Oh look! We lost so this thread shows up. How predictable!

HFAvs: "This team plays lazy."
HFAvs: "This team plays with no effort."

But then...

HFAvs: "Bednar will tell tell to skate faster and play harder."

Which is it guys? I guess everybody can tell them to play harder and with more effort but Bednar cannot. Got it. Makes sense..........I guess.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Oh look! We lost so this thread shows up. How predictable!

HFAvs: "This team plays lazy."
HFAvs: "This team plays with no effort."

But then...

HFAvs: "Bednar will tell tell to skate faster and play harder."

Which is it guys? I guess everybody can tell them to play harder and with more effort but Bednar cannot. Got it. Makes sense..........I guess.

Nope, but his message has clearly gone stale. This team is never ready to play and can never play for 60 minutes, usually barely even one period.

It’s normal, he’s one of the longest tenured coaches in the league. Everybody needs a change at some point.

 

[Pokecheque]

He is officially the third longest-tenured coach in the league, behind Jon Cooper and Mike Sullivan.

I don't know what to think at this point. This is a team that even on paper relies WAY too much on two generational talents to carry them, and has been hampered by injuries and earlier goaltending struggles, not to mention the young center they paid a pretty big price for is floundering horribly. Not sure how many coaches could eke out that many wins under those circumstances, but that does not excuse the inaction on the power play.

At the very least I think Bennett is in huge trouble right now.

 

[cinchronicity]

Last night's game perfectly illustrates WHY Bednar, Pratt and Bennet need to go. The Oilers put on a hockey clinic. The Avs put on a clown show where Nate and LOC decided to go at it themselves.

It seems like the fallback rebuttal is, "Hey, he has won at every level." That is true, but in the minors, a team can win the league with just a single elite player. Cobble together a full line of elite players and the coach can go sleep in the locker room. It is not the same in the NHL. Talent on just the top line and top pair will not cut it in the NHL. The coaches actually need to coach. Bednar does not know how to coach in the NHL. The Avs caught lightening in a bottle with Kadri having a career year, Burky having a great year for a 3rd liner and 5.5 very good defensemen. They had Helm - Cogs - LOC as a 4th line. This is mostly because Nate, Cale and Byram played way above the dollar value of their contracts - thus more money for depth.

Bednar can win when the hand he was dealt was a straight flush. He does not go far even with 2 ( really 3) aces. Since opponents know that the Avs only play North/South, they anticipate. Opponents know the Avs PP tendencies, so they anticipate. The Avs are predictable, and that falls on Bednar. The Bednar Blender never worked at the NHL level. Both the PK and PP have ALWAYS had easily exploited flaws. The Avs still suck at clearing the D zone. They still suck at face-offs. They still fail to cycle in the O Zone. They still suck at 6 v 5, Drouin's recent goal notwithstanding. These are all the coaches' responsibilities.

I am simply unsure that the Avs can win another Cup with Bednar at the helm. SakMac need to think out of the box, and give the job to Cogs. What could he possibly do that would yield worse results than Bednar?

 

[RoyIsALegend]

I am simply unsure that the Avs can win another Cup with Bednar at the helm. SakMac need to think out of the box, and give the job to Cogs. What could he possibly do that would yield worse results than Bednar?

Cogliano doesn’t want to coach, he wants to continue to grow and develop in the management side of the business.

 

[Pokecheque]

Actually I think they've been really good at 6-on-5 recently, even last night they retained possession for the majority of the time. It was earlier this season that they gave up a cavalcade of empty netters.

I'm okay with possibly moving on from Bennett, though I've no idea who they'd go with. But I don't really see how Pratt is at fault right now, especially given the fact he's got a washed-up veteran and a career AHLer who simply cannot secure the puck down low in his own zone despite being the biggest guy on the ice at any given moment as his third pairing. And the 2nd pairing is clearly banged up to hell.

I'd argue Bednar & Co. have gotten a LOT out of this roster the past few years, especially when MacFarland just up and decided in a title defense year not to give him a motherf***ing 2nd line center. And at present this team doesn't have anything resembling a 2nd, 3rd, or really even 4th line center.

I'm 100% on board with a GM change, but not the head coach, and not Pratt either. If the season ends in disappointment yet again--and I'm assuming ownership will not accept another 1st or 2nd round exit--then it'll be a moot point because they'll clean house.

 

[Balthazar]

The Avs havent fired a coach in nearly 12 years.

 

[wayninja]

Oh man I'm really torn on what we should do

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Nope, but his message has clearly gone stale. This team is never ready to play and can never play for 60 minutes, usually barely even one period.

It’s normal, he’s one of the longest tenured coaches in the league. Everybody needs a change at some point.

Longevity in tenure for coaches in the NHL is a dying/dead thing. If you want tenure, you're better off trying to get a job as an AD or HC for a collegiate team. The demands of a multi-billion dollar industry is such that any drop in performance at any level (GM, HC, 1st LW, 3C, 7D, etc..) will result in someone else taking over sooner rather than later.

The question everyone has to ask is...Has Bednar's time come up. It's got nothing to do with him, his system, his IQ, his coaching ability, his professionalism... none of that is in question. It's just that in professional sports, staying the same gets you passed by very quickly. You must change and adapt to have continued success and while I kinda blame Jared for not changing/adapting enough, I can see where it is difficult to get 22 guys you've hammered into believing there is only one way to play, to maybe play a different style? Maybe it takes another voice to carry that message.

Actually I think they've been really good at 6-on-5 recently, even last night they retained possession for the majority of the time. It was earlier this season that they gave up a cavalcade of empty netters.

I'm okay with possibly moving on from Bennett, though I've no idea who they'd go with. But I don't really see how Pratt is at fault right now, especially given the fact he's got a washed-up veteran and a career AHLer who simply cannot secure the puck down low in his own zone despite being the biggest guy on the ice at any given moment as his third pairing. And the 2nd pairing is clearly banged up to hell.

I'd argue Bednar & Co. have gotten a LOT out of this roster the past few years, especially when MacFarland just up and decided in a title defense year not to give him a motherf***ing 2nd line center. And at present this team doesn't have anything resembling a 2nd, 3rd, or really even 4th line center.

I'm 100% on board with a GM change, but not the head coach, and not Pratt either. If the season ends in disappointment yet again--and I'm assuming ownership will not accept another 1st or 2nd round exit--then it'll be a moot point because they'll clean house.

Out of curiosity...what makes you defend Pratt? It kinda sounds like you are giving him a pass because he's got less than stellar players/health. I'm dinging on him because this is exactly when he needs to be his best. I don't think he's done anything to improve our 5-9 dmen. Brannstrom, de Haan, Kylington, Ludvig, Malinski and Middleton... yes, it's not a ton to work with but has he done anything to make them better? I have a high suspicion that there are quite a few coaches that could get more out of that mix.

 

[Balthazar]

Oh man I'm really torn on what we should do

I like Bednar but I want to see what this core can do under a new coach.

I also have zero confidence that Bednar can win more than one playoff round this year with that team.

If we were to face DeBoer in round 1 we don't make it to round 2.

 

[Foppa2118]

I don't want Bednar fired. I don't see motivation as a big problem. Occasionally maybe but not consistently. I don't think he's lost he room or anything.

Nate, Cale, Mikko, and Drouin have played hard and played well all year. Toews has played hard and well for a couple weeks now outside the Rangers game. Manson is playing hard and has played ok outside the Oilers game. Lehky and LOC are always going to play hard. Same with Val and Landy when they're in the lineup. Kivi's played hard and played well in his role most the year. Colton has had a very good season, though is inconsistent like always. Kelly has played ok for most the year. Parssinen has had a good start and played hard.

We seem to need to find ONE thing to blame the team's problems on every year, and then after some time goes by, we realize that wasn't really the problem. Kadri, Bednar, Compher, Newhook, Byram, back to Bednar.

This isn't Bednar's fault anyway. The problem is they have half an AHL team with all the injuries, they have some holes on defense that need to be filled, and Mitts isn't as good as people thought he was. But that's on them for being talked into thinking he was better than he was.

In theory the injuries can get at least a little better and Mitts can play at least a little better. They'll have some trades to make and they've been getting the best goaltenidng in the league since Blackwood got here.

Things aren't as bad as our emotions are telling us. Stick with Bedsy. He's taught this entire team how to play winning hockey, and helped them win a Stanley Cup already.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I don't want Bednar fired. I don't see motivation as a big problem. Occasionally maybe but not consistently. I don't think he's lost he room or anything.

Nate, Cale, Mikko, and Drouin have played hard and played well all year. Toews has played hard and well for a couple weeks now outside the Rangers game. Manson is playing hard and has played ok outside the Oilers game. Lehky and LOC are always going to play hard. Same with Val and Landy when they're in the lineup. Kivi's played hard and played well in his role most the year. Colton has had a very good season, though is inconsistent like always. Kelly has played ok for most the year. Parssinen has had a good start and played hard.

We seem to need to find ONE thing to blame the team's problems on every year, and then after some time goes by, we realize that wasn't really the problem. Kadri, Bednar, Compher, Newhook, Byram, back to Bednar.

This isn't Bednar's fault anyway. The big problem is they have half an AHL team with all the injuries and Mitts isn't as good as people thought he was. But that's on them for being talked into thinking he was better than he was.

In theory the injuries can get at least a little better and Mitts can play at least a little better. They'll have some trades to make and they've been getting the best goaltenidng in the league since Blackwood got here. Things aren't as bad as our emotions are telling us. Stick with Bedsy. He's taught this entire team how to play winning hockey.

We are not watching the same season.

 

[Foppa2118]

We are not watching the same season.

Which of those players hasn't played hard most the season?

Just a few weeks ago everyone said goaltending was the only problem with the team, everyone else was playing well. That wasn't totally true either.

 

[Tralfamadore]

Which of those players hasn't played hard most the season?

Just a few weeks ago everyone said goaltending was the only problem with the team, everyone else was playing well. That wasn't totally true either.

I sure as hell never said that.

The writing has been on the wall since training camp.

 

[ABasin]

Nope, but his message has clearly gone stale. This team is never ready to play and can never play for 60 minutes, usually barely even one period.

It’s normal, he’s one of the longest tenured coaches in the league. Everybody needs a change at some point.

I wonder if MacFarland's position to Bednar is "Last year, I gave you a perfectly useful 2C. What the f*** did you do to him?"

I still don't believe that the Avs are going to shitcan Bednar though. And teams would line up to get him.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Which of those players hasn't played hard most the season?

Just a few weeks ago everyone said goaltending was the only problem with the team, everyone else was playing well. That wasn't totally true either.

Every single one of them.

If you think they are giving 100% then we really do need to completely blow up the team beginning with Nate, Cale and Mikko and start building the new core.

If this is 100% of what our top dogs have, they are all incredibly over paid and preventing us from having a decent team.

 

[Foppa2118]

Every single one of them.

If you think they are giving 100% then we really do need to completely blow up the team beginning with Nate, Cale and Mikko and start building the new core.

If this is 100% of what our top dogs have, they are all incredibly over paid and preventing us from having a decent team.

We definitely aren't watching the same team, if you think the 1st and 5th leading scorer in the NHL, the best defenseman in the NHL who probably works harder than any other defenseman in the league and is having a Norris caliber season, Lehkonen who gets the shit kicked out of him every game while battling hard, LOC, and Kivi haven't all played hard most the season. Toews, Kelly, Parsinnen lately too. I'd argue Manson plays hard almost every night as well.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

IMO this is not Bednar's fault. The main issue is lack of quality depth that is being exposed due to a lot of injuries. But the lack of depth is normal when 1) a team just won a SC AND 2) the team is unable to draft well. This is amplified by Mitts playing well below what he was supposed to bring to this team when they acquired him. Those things together forces Bednar to overplay his top guys because his 4th line sucks due to quite a few guys playing too high in the lineup for too long in the schedule. You can mask that for a few games but it is impossible to do for 40 games. Eventually it catches up to you and fatigue start taking over.

It is not lack of effort or players tuning out the coach. It is fatigue and lack of skills in the bottom-9 forwards. Let's not forget that this team have had all top-6 forwards in the lineup for only 1 game IIRC (not even counting Landy). I think I heard that Drouin and Nuke have been in the lineup at the same time for only 1 game. ONE GAME.

And the lack of depth will only get worst with Landy coming back and Mikko's new contract so you better get used to see Bednar overplaying his top guys. A coach's job is to win games so he will do whatever he can to get that result in that current game. Oilers's top players are playing a lot too. They are just behind our guys in minutes IIRC. The Avs cannot sustain pressure for more that one shift due to lack of depth.

Considering the amount of injuries we have had I don't believe too many coaches would have won as many games as the Avs. The teams that do better with the same amount of injuries are the team that draft better.

Bednar's system is very good but it is very taxing on the players. If you don't have the depth your top players will suffer. People can argue a coach should then adjust his system accordingly and I would argue that he does sometimes by getting them to play more defensive hockey but offense will then suffer especially if you have an obvious lack of skills in your bottom-9.

With that said, I would be for changing Bennett though. That PP is horrible and lack a lot of creativity. Way too predictable.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

We definitely aren't watching the same team, if you think the 1st and 5th leading scorer in the NHL, the best defenseman in the NHL who probably works harder than any other defenseman in the league and is having a Norris caliber season, Lehkonen who gets the shit kicked out of him every game while battling hard, LOC, and Kivi haven't all played hard most the season. Toews, Kelly, Parsinnen lately too. I'd argue Manson plays hard almost every night as well.

I'm watching them out floating at 5v5 and not giving a single solitary shit for almost 12 of the 24 minutes they are played.

These guys are ridiculously talented but they are being told to score on a breakaway or don't f***ing score at all because Jared doesn't have time for a game plan other than skate harder. How many times does Rants bobble a pass and we lose posession? How many times does Cale blow a shot wide and the same happens? How many times do we need to see MacKinnon fail to bring the puck into the zone on a f***ing PP as we waste the first minute-twenty simply trying to get the puck in the zone and gather possession?

These guys look like the damned keystone cops for entirely too long of stretches of time... at their AAV they should be looking like god-damned champions everytime they step on the ice. They are overpaid for what they bring individually. Our team, like most, is a product of the sum of the parts. None of them on their own are nearly as good as they think. The only reason any of them get these kinds of numbers are because they are playing together as a unit.... yet we are paying them at full value as individuals as if they created everything out of the air on their own.

Both the coach and the players deserve the shit they are in right now.

I'm not sure how you can continue to defend this shit day after day, month after month, year after year watching the team get worse, watching the players play worse, yet think they are blameless.