Jared Bednar & Co. Discussion Thread

[John Blutarsky]

The thing is, not only did the coaches put them in a position to win 6 out of 7 games, the assistant coaches were good enough to have good special teams to end the regular season too.

PP was 1st in the NHL the last 33 games, and the PK was 4th in the NHL the last 60 games, including a 40 game stretch where they were tied for 1st.

The constant theme the whole series IMO was poor execution on plays/shots, and mistakes from the players. 5v5 and both special teams.

I understand the argument that they may need a new voice. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. But this feels like a classic, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink" scenario IMO.

 

[Foppa2118]

I think the one exception to this line of thought is the power play. The Avs had a pretty strong idea that Dallas would be their opponent for a damn long time. They had weeks to prepare. And the PP, with but a few exceptions, was a pile of monkey crap.

I do agree that the players gave this away, in general. They had leads in the 3rd period in three of the four losses. They just choked.

IMO their lack of execution 5v5 carried over to the power play. That was the biggest problem. That always seems to be their problem when the PP stops working.

Then some time goes by, and they get red hot again. Just didn't have enough time for that in a 7 game series.

It was red hot to end the season at 1st overall. The team was also red hot for a minute, going 17-6 in March.

Then they stopped playing. They got into bad habits. Started having bad starts to games giving up multiple goals. Started having bad ends to games giving up thrid period leads. Cale and everyone else started shooting like absolute garbage.

The execution that they relied on when both the team and PP were red hot, just disappeared, and never really came back after they flipped the switch off waiting for the playoffs.

Perhaps some of that can be put on coaching, I'm not sure, but not in x's and o's, in not being able to help them snap out of their mental funk properly and remain focused for 60 minutes, especially Game 7 when they needed to focus the most.

 

[SirLoinOfCloth]

Game 3. 0-6 on the PP. That could very well be what lost us this series ultimately. If we score on one of those in regulation we win.

 

[dahrougem2]

How long did he have after the TDL? He didn't have to wait until early in the f***ing playoffs. Should've happened within the first 4 games. This was complete dereliction of duty.

At some point post-22 for whatever reason, Jared Bednar became enamored with the idea of a super top line. He refused to separate MacKinnon and Rantanen unless one was injured and he had no choice. Same goes for MacKinnon and Necas. He figured it's his new 29/96.

Crazy, really, because when we look back at 2022 he separated MacKinnon and Rantanen for practically the entire playoffs with great success.

Now all of a sudden he doesn't believe in it. It kills me.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Yes I agree. Never seemed like he wanted to do it outside that brief stint, which doesn't make sense, because both he and Nelson looked good together, and neither really looked good after that.

It was begging for a switch up early in the series. Who knows if that changes Games 2, 3, 5, or 7.

And this is why I feel kinda strongly about getting rid of Bednar but maybe keeping CMac.

I honestly believe many other head coaches would have built a more team approach to the last several year's squad. Bednar just consistently wants to play his top 5 skaters and is f***ing inconvenienced at least when he can't have them on the ice. All he wants is 30 seconds, hopefully not getting scored on, and then he'll go right back with his 5.

I might be content to go one more season with Bednar if NHL games were only two periods long... I just haven't seen a single f***ing thing from him that suggests he would ever approach this new season any differently than he has the previous nine.

 

[Foppa2118]

Game 3. 0-6 on the PP. That could very well be what lost us this series ultimately. If we score on one of those in regulation we win.

Lots of those big moments that the Avs failed in.

PP not coming through when they needed. PK not coming through when they needed. Bad turnovers in OT with the long change. A few soft goals in the losses. Cale missing on so many great chances. Val not being the usual puck hound he can be, with a great shot, and great on the PP. Throw in bad calls if you want.

Any of those change, and they migth have won the series. The fact that ALL of them happened, and it took ALL of them happening to lose, is pretty inexcusable.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

At some point post-22 for whatever reason, Jared Bednar became enamored with the idea of a super top line. He refused to separate MacKinnon and Rantanen unless one was injured and he had no choice. Same goes for MacKinnon and Necas. He figured it's his new 29/96.

Crazy, really, because when we look back at 2022 he separated MacKinnon and Rantanen for practically the entire playoffs with great success.

Now all of a sudden he doesn't believe in it. It kills me.

What really kills me... is this would be a f***ing great opening question to a lengthy in-depth interview with Bednar.

But there is not one single journalist covering the team with the balls, creativity or jam to make such a thing happen. In fact, they don't have the balls to just ask the question in an scrum interview. "Hey Jared, you won the cup in '22 largely due to splitting Nate and Mikko up... why haven't you really invested in a second line since?"

Short f***ing question... direct, to the point. Problem is, there were more pubic hairs in the front row of a New Kids on the Block concert than there is in the Avs media pool.

 

[ABasin]

IMO their lack of execution 5v5 carried over to the power play. That was the biggest problem. That always seems to be their problem when the PP stops working.

Then some time goes by, and they get red hot again. Just didn't have enough time for that in a 7 game series.

It was red hot to end the season at 1st overall. The team was also red hot for a minute, going 17-6 in March.

Then they stopped playing. They got into bad habits. Started having bad starts to games giving up multiple goals. Started having bad ends to games giving up thrid period leads. Cale and everyone else started shooting like absolute garbage.

The execution that they relied on when both the team and PP were red hot, just disappeared, and never really came back after they flipped the switch off waiting for the playoffs.

Perhaps some of that can be put on coaching, I'm not sure, but not in x's and o's, in not being able to help them snap out of their mental funk properly and remain focused for 60 minutes, especially Game 7 when they needed to focus the most.

I don't believe what the Avs did in March is terribly relevant.

Dallas lost their last 7 games of the regular season or something. Then lost their best forward, to go along with their best defenseman (one of the half dozen best in the world) being out. How relevant was it?

The Avs had weeks to prepare for Dallas, just like the Dallas had weeks to prepare for the Avs. Dallas seemed entirely prepared for Colorado's special teams, and entirely prepared to play close 3rd periods and overtimes in the playoffs.

Colorado? Not so much - in either case.

In the end, I think there's plenty of responsibility to be planted at the feet of players, coaches, and GM. No one is clean here. But hypothetically, if I was forced with a gun to my head, to pinpoint one single person who was most responsible? I wouldn't choose either Bednar or CMac.

I would choose Cale Makar.

 

[Foppa2118]

I don't believe what the Avs did in March is terribly relevant.

Dallas lost their last 7 games of the regular season or something. Then lost their best forward, to go along with their best defenseman (one of the half dozen best in the world) being out. How relevant was it?

The Avs had weeks to prepare for Dallas, just like the Dallas had weeks to prepare for the Avs. Dallas seemed entirely prepared for Colorado's special teams, and entirely prepared to play close 3rd periods and overtimes in the playoffs.

Colorado? Not so much - in either case.

In the end, I think there's plenty of responsibility to be planted at the feet of players, coaches, and GM. No one is clean here. But hypothetically, if I was forced with a gun to my head, to pinpoint one single person who was most responsible? I wouldn't choose either Bednar or CMac.

I would choose Cale Makar.

Isn't it very possible that one team was able to flip the switch back on mentally and the other wasn't?

Not like every team would handle that the same way. Every person is different, every situations is different, every team is different.

Stars also succeeded in the big moments offensively, and didn't make many mistakes defensively in them.

Avs failed in too many big moments to score, and made too many mistakes in them defensively.

I believe this is related.

 

[ABasin]

Isn't it very possible that one team was able to flip the switch back on mentally and the other wasn't?

Not like every team would handle that the same way. Every person is different, every situations is different, every team is different.

Stars also came up big in teh big moments and didn't make many mistakes in them. Avs didn't come up in the big moments and made too many mistakes in them. I believe this is related.

We're probably saying the same thing. I call it "prepared", you're calling it "flipping the switch".

What you wrote that I bolded is 100% entirely correct, IMO.

 

[GeoRox89]

It’s Monday. Why hasn’t Bennett been fired into the moon yet? Why are Bednar, Pratt and Parkkila still here?

Bring Foote home! Tanguay too but that’ll be harder to accomplish. Too bad Kroenke won’t offer Ian Clark an ungodly amount to step back into a full time role as well

 

[chet1926]

Could not agree with you more.

As far as the bolded, maybe if they had 2 of the best players on the planet and then a roster with poor depth, ok his playoff record would be more understandable but C-Mac has given him plenty to work with especially the last 2 years.

CMac put together a roster this year that should have gone deep. Instead they lost to a undermanned Dallas team, 1st round. Completely unacceptable result for this season.

Things have to change this coaching is not working.

 

[chet1926]

Game 3. 0-6 on the PP. That could very well be what lost us this series ultimately. If we score on one of those in regulation we win.

That was absolutely the game that cost us the season. And it was about 95% a coaching issue.

 

[Foppa2118]

That was absolutely the game that cost us the season. And it was about 95% a coaching issue.

They were still a little over 12 minutes away from advancing with a 2-0 lead though.

 

[BobRossColton]

Can we change our medical staff too..

 

[sethro109]

How many more years are we going to suffer with this coaching staff? How many more times do we have to lose to Deboer before they f***ing see it? MacK has 2 more years of prime before he most likely starts to decline.

We're f***ed.

 

[chet1926]

I don't believe what the Avs did in March is terribly relevant.

Dallas lost their last 7 games of the regular season or something. Then lost their best forward, to go along with their best defenseman (one of the half dozen best in the world) being out. How relevant was it?

The Avs had weeks to prepare for Dallas, just like the Dallas had weeks to prepare for the Avs. Dallas seemed entirely prepared for Colorado's special teams, and entirely prepared to play close 3rd periods and overtimes in the playoffs.

Colorado? Not so much - in either case.

In the end, I think there's plenty of responsibility to be planted at the feet of players, coaches, and GM. No one is clean here. But hypothetically, if I was forced with a gun to my head, to pinpoint one single person who was most responsible? I wouldn't choose either Bednar or CMac.

I would choose Cale Makar.

Cale was absolutely the main player who lost us the series. He honestly better be f***ing hurt. An absolutely horrendous playoffs for him. He should be embarrassed. And I better see a man possessed next year and an unstoppable force in the playoffs. He is supposed to be the best dman on the planet, and he played like some scrub 2nd pairing guy.

For that matter I think the whole team needs to take a look in the mirror and reevaluate how they train in the off-season. I really feel that the guys have been taking it light in the off-season. Even 29 admitted he didn't go as hard this last off-season.

This team needed this wakeup call. It's been very lackadaisical since they won the Cup. The regular season it looks like they can't be bothered many nights, the playoffs have been terrible, throwing away very winnable series.

I'm not saying they need a mission 16W type rally cry, but they absolutely need to play with a purpose and play like a team that gives a f***. We haven't played with a purpose since 22.

 

[chet1926]

They were still a little over 12 minutes away from advancing with a 2-0 lead though.

Should never have gotten to game 7. Two OT loses that should have easily been wins. Game 3 was the absolute killer. Home, 6 PPs including 3 mins+ in OT and we couldn't get it done.

 

[AvalancheRy]

They may or may not need a new voice, I can understand that argument, but Bednar definitely outcoached DeBoer. Not the other way around.

With his gameplan, and adjustments, the Stars didn't stifle their breakout in any game, didn't prevent them from getting scoring chances, and didn't get many themselves. 5v5 the Avs were definitely the better team based on the eye test and analytics.

Shots (5v5)

Avs - 190
Stars - 135

Shots Directed Toward Net (5v5)

Avs - 443
Stars - 313

Scoring Chances (5v5)

Avs - 207
Stars - 143

High Danger Chances (5v5)

Avs - 86
Stars - 59

xGF% (5v5)

Avs - 58.44%
Stars - 41.56%

The Avs lost the way they always do. Preventable mistakes at key times, bad shot selection/accuracy, and special teams.

Even though both special teams were among the absolute best in the league to end the season. PP was 1st in the NHL the last 33 games, and the PK was 4th in the NHL the last 60 games, including a 40 game stretch where they were tied for 1st.

If they don't give away three 3rd period leads, they beat the Stars 6 out of 7 games. The players gave it away.

You definitely paint a convincing picture w/ the stats. But I guess the talking point is whether these disparities are generated by scheme or just talent? This Avs team was very talented on paper, and probably more talented than Dallas given their injuries.

My point is when this team has had failures 3 years in a row - and really underachieved despite their talent - where is Bednar's impact exactly? A first round exit against the Kraken was not good. I don't care if you're missing Nuke. At some point the scheme itself has to have some inherent value that your team is greater than the sum of its parts. I just don't personally see it with Bednar and never really have, going back to our loss in Vegas years ago.

Bednar can definitely lead a stacked team to victory, that's great. But I think the Avs should absolutely look around for alternatives.

 

[Foppa2118]

You definitely paint a convincing picture w/ the stats. But I guess the talking point is whether these disparities are generated by scheme or just talent? This Avs team was very talented on paper, and probably more talented than Dallas given their injuries.

My point is when this team has had failures 3 years in a row - and really underachieved despite their talent - where is Bednar's impact exactly? A first round exit against the Kraken was not good. I don't care if you're missing Nuke. At some point the scheme itself has to have some inherent value that your team is greater than the sum of its parts. I just don't personally see it with Bednar and never really have, going back to our loss in Vegas years ago.

Bednar can definitely lead a stacked team to victory, that's great. But I think the Avs should absolutely look around for alternatives.

Both IMO.

The main point though is it wasn't an issue with tactics, adjustments, or gameplans. That all worked very well for the Avs.

It was an issue of making mistakes at key times, and not scoring big goals at key times to pad their leads.

We can speculate how much of that had to do with coaching not keeping the players focused, but it's really hard to tell who's more to blame.

I personally put that more on the players, because they have more responsibly for their individual mental preparation.

Overplaying stars, not practicing, and perhaps not communicating as intensely enough to make sure they're focused, may or may not have been a contributing factor though. Again, hard to tell.

 

[Balthazar]

Then they stopped playing. They got into bad habits. Started having bad starts to games giving up multiple goals. Started having bad ends to games giving up thrid period leads. Cale and everyone else started shooting like absolute garbage.

Do you ever credit the other team? How many times do they have to lose to that specific coach before people realize it's not our players that don't want it enough? 5 times? 6 times? 10?

Did you catch what Mackinnon said after the game?

Here:

 

[BednarIsStupid]

Not a bad choice.

He won’t be cheap, though. The Avs like cheap head coaches.

Foote is likely to go with him as an assistant coach wherever he lands.

I hear Tocchet's quite stubborn as well though.

 

[Foppa2118]

Do you ever credit the other team? How many times do they have to lose to that specific coach before people realize it's not our players that don't want it enough? 5 times? 6 times? 10?

Did you catch what Mackinnon said after the game?

Of course. Pre Cup, the Avs were not the better teams in most loses. They had a few holes on the roster, and they hadn't matured enough to win yet. Now though, they have a team that can win most years.

You need to have a good explanation for "why" a team or coach was better than the Avs. Not just one coach with three different teams, over the course of a decade, with very different teams, and situations.

That's nowhere near enough to believe DeBoer outreached Bednar again, when the Avs dominated at 5v5, and all the analytics support it.

It's very obvious IMO that the Avs just threw this one away. Whatever you think about Dallas or DeBoer, it wasn't enough to prevent themselves from being dominated almost every game at 5v5.

MacKinnon migth be the most emotional player in the NHL. He's just saying how he felt minutes after losing a heartbreaker. His comments about not being sure what to do mean nothing.

 

[Balthazar]

Of course. Pre Cup, the Avs were not the better teams in most loses. They had a few holes on the roster, and they hadn't matured enough to win yet. Now though, they have a team that can win most years.

You need to have a good explanation for "why" a team or coach was better than the Avs. Not just one coach with three different teams, over the course of a decade, with very diffente team, and situations.

It's very obivosu IMO that the Avs just threw this one away. They dominated the 5v5 play. Whatever you think about Dallas or DeBoer, it wasn't enough to prevent themselves from being dominated almost every game at 5v5.

MacKinnon migth be the most emotional player in the NHL. He's just saying how he felt minutes after losing a heartbreaker. His comments about not being sure what to do mean nothing.

While you look at Makar not performing, there are people working very hard to prevent him from performing.

Here's an interesting quote that may explain a few things:

 

[RoyIsALegend]

While you look at Makar not performing, there are people working very hard to prevent him from performing.

Here's an interesting quote that may explain a few things:

DeBoer did nothing.

Makar was injured and/or forgot how to hockey.

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