Jared Bednar & Co. Discussion Thread

[LOFIN]

I think he'll be a much better coach for his next team.

A smart coach (which I believe he is) does a thorough analysis after he's out of a job.

Steve Valiquette (MSG Networks, Clear Sight Analytics) told a story on Real Kyper and Bourne, that after one NHL coach had been let go by his team, he did a real study on what lead to him failing and part of that was hiring CSA to do a full analysis on his goaltending as well. Could he have done something better to help them defensively, what type of goals were scored on his team etc.

Obviously coaches should be constantly looking at their failures, but the real time for self reflection usually comes when you are fired. Especially after the first time.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I think he'll be a much better coach for his next team.

I would thinks so as well.

I think it may very well take a coach getting fired once before they fully realize just how much they need to be able to change. Bednar has been very rigid in his gameplan relying very heavily on a very few players. I think he'll be more about the full team in future stops, I just think it's the big lesson he hasn't been able to master here.

 

[Foppa2118]

We have much deeper problems if your headcoach and Best forward are in this "mode".....

And speaking of MacKinnon: A player who is running his own regime and routine should think twice before blaming others....

Up to this day i still dont know what really went down with the AVS and Rantanen.

This franchise traded away Adam Deadmarsh back then. A close friend and buddy to Sakic and Forsberg.

And Sakic himself sent O´Reilly packing over money, a close friend to MacKinnon back then too and kept Duchene..... He got lucky with that Duchene-Trade-Home-Run in that process.

Imagine we keep Rants,, go into the playoffs with Mittelstadt as 2C, go nowhere and Rantanen walks in FA....

You and some others would be furious with MacFarland and demand his head......

We saw it when Stastny walked for free chasing money......

Look, if they want to clean house and fire MacFarland too, allright, so be it. Thats the business and i will not defend MacFarland at all costs. And yes, he also has to get his fair share of blame. Its on Sakic and Kroenke to make the call.

But if the players and Bednar really come up with this nonsense and claim that trading away Rantanen doomed another playoff run.... Well, f*** this losers, seriously.

I'm not sure you know my thoughts on the Mikko trade or CMac though. Certainly not from the post you quoted.

For clarity, I like CMac, I'm not suggesting he get fired, I understood the trade, though wasn't enthralled with it, and knew the potential risks and benefits.

I was actually expecting either Mikko re-signs at the deadline or walks as a UFA. I would have understood him walking. I wouldn't have been furious or called for CMac's head. It would have been about getting one more run with him and Nate and then using his cap space in the off season.

My issue with the trade was not getting a handshake deal with Tulsky not to trade Mikko to a western rival this year. Or not making it at the deadline so he couldn't trade him again.

But it's hard to ignore that the trade resulted in ending the Avs season, at the hands of a motivated Mikko, because he felt the Avs didn't want him.

The reason for the trade, being better depth, also proved not to be more important than a game breaker like Mikko.

There's a lot of blame to go around for this playoff loss. The players, Bednar, CMac, everyone has a share in it.

 

[AslanRH]

at the hands of a motivated Mikko, because he felt the Avs didn't want him.

Just my perception, but I didn't see a motivated Mikko all season and don't think we would have even if he had remained unsigned going into the playoffs.

Completely agree though that it would have been nice to somehow find a trade stipulation as a way to have kept him out east for the year.
Don't think much of anyone at the time of the trade reasonably saw a situation where Carolina would flip him like that though.

 

[Foppa2118]

Just my perception, but I didn't see a motivated Mikko all season and don't think we would have even if he had remained unsigned going into the playoffs.

Completely agree though that it would have been nice to somehow find a trade stipulation as a way to have kept him out east for the year.
Don't think much of anyone at the time of the trade reasonably saw a situation where Carolina would flip him like that though.

He played well before the trade. He was on a 42 goal 107 point pace.

I think the whole thing was just overwhelming after the trade. He was definitely motivated though. Mikko always gets motivated by doubters. Look how he played after Ismo's comments.

Ferraro who was rinkside, said after he scored his hat trick EN, he said to himself something along the lines of "how you like that shit Colorado?"

He's a prideful guy, and trading him right after dropping his price and telling them he wanted to stay, and that he was flexible, and then going to Carolina and not performing, and then being traded again, everyone was slinging arrows at him. Most of the hockey world was doubting him, including his old team, and fans.

He definitely saw that as revenge, even though he respectfully denied feeling that way after the game, when he was asked.

 

[AvalancheRy]

I'm sorry but I just don't see Bednar as one of the top coaches in the league. Has there been a season in his tenure where we can honestly say the Avs overachieved - meaning the team performed better than the talent on the team? Maybe once early in his tenure?

The past three years have been egregious failures IMO. Two first round exits with the Rantanen, Mack, and Makar/Toews, and a disappointing second round exit. Yes there were obstacles, but I don't see Bednar as been a force multiplier here, at all. We win in 2022 with an absolutely stacked roster, but other than that it's been punching way below our weight class.

And Bednar can't outcoach Deboer. We lost to a Dallas team without the top goal scorer and top defensemen. That to me is an unacceptable result. Period.

I'm not saying fire him per se, but I'm definitely looking around for other coaches who can actually get more out of the team than the talent already allows.

 

[shadow1]

I have a contrarian opinion. Losing Game 7 was extremely painful, but I thought the series as a whole was lost due to special teams, Oettinger, and too many passengers from the Avs side. 5v5, Colorado was the better team.

When the Avs lost to Vegas in 2021, I thought it was an all-systems failure. Colorado was minutes away from going up 3-0, but instead lost 2-4. More importantly, they were getting smoked in some of those games; outshot 41-25 in Game 2, 43-20 in Game 3, 35-18 in Game 4. At one point the only guy who could score a goal was Brandon Saad. It was ugly.

I feel pissed about the Dallas series, yes. Extremely pissed. But I don't feel hopeless like I did after the Vegas loss. Point is, I don't feel a desperate urge to replace Bednar. The assistants, yes. But unless a clear upgrade comes into the picture, my furor is directed at the front office. Simply put, Colorado had no chance in 2023 with the Lars Eller roster. In 2024, it felt like they had a chance at the time, but with more distance, it's easier to see the cracks in that roster. This year's team had a legitimate chance and failure was unacceptable. I view this as one failure by Bednar versus three by MacFarland.

 

[AvsWraith]

Does Bedz seem like the kind of guy that is gonna kick his assistants to the curb? No! He's ride or die with them I bet. If you want any sort of change, it's gonna have to be full scale firing.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Does Bedz seem like the kind of guy that is gonna kick his assistants to the curb? No! He's ride or die with them I bet. If you want any sort of change, it's gonna have to be full scale firing.

Yeah, but I also don't see him walking away from the remainder of his contract if Chris was to just go ahead and fire Bennett and/or Pratt. He might be proud, but he ain't stupid.

 

[Grigowski]

Yeah, but I also don't see him walking away from the remainder of his contract if Chris was to just go ahead and fire Bennett and/or Pratt. He might be proud, but he ain't stupid.

Firing Bennett and Pratt doesnt work. Its all of them (coaches) or no one....

 

[Foppa2118]

And Bednar can't outcoach Deboer. We lost to a Dallas team without the top goal scorer and top defensemen. That to me is an unacceptable result. Period.

They may or may not need a new voice, I can understand that argument, but Bednar definitely outcoached DeBoer. Not the other way around.

With his gameplan, and adjustments, the Stars didn't stifle their breakout in any game, didn't prevent them from getting scoring chances, and didn't get many themselves. 5v5 the Avs were definitely the better team based on the eye test and analytics.

Shots (5v5)

Avs - 190
Stars - 135

Shots Directed Toward Net (5v5)

Avs - 443
Stars - 313

Scoring Chances (5v5)

Avs - 207
Stars - 143

High Danger Chances (5v5)

Avs - 86
Stars - 59

xGF% (5v5)

Avs - 58.44%
Stars - 41.56%

The Avs lost the way they always do. Preventable mistakes at key times, bad shot selection/accuracy, and special teams.

Even though both special teams were among the absolute best in the league to end the season. PP was 1st in the NHL the last 33 games, and the PK was 4th in the NHL the last 60 games, including a 40 game stretch where they were tied for 1st.

If they don't give away three 3rd period leads, they beat the Stars 6 out of 7 games. The players gave it away.

 

[AslanRH]

He played well before the trade. He was on a 42 goal 107 point pace.

Playing/scoring well and motivated are not one in the same to me, but I do recognize your perspective overall.

Just wish we knew the true timeline of events and offers that led up to that trade.
Even if it just makes me unreasonably angry like the Chris Drury trade did for years

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Firing Bennett and Pratt doesnt work. Its all of them (coaches) or no one....

Oh I agree... all three should have had a pink slip waiting on them when they got back to the coaches lounge after the third period.

But... The Avs have not historically been a team to spend a lot of "extra" money. Extra money being money spent on the team that is not directly related to the salary cap. I could see this organization actually balking at canning Bednar because of his remaining contract.

 

[Foppa2118]

Oh I agree... all three would have had a pink slip waiting on them when they got back to the coaches lounge after the third period.

But... The Avs have not historically been a team to spend a lot of "extra" money. Extra money being money spent on the team that is not directly related to the salary cap. I could see this organization actually balking at canning Bednar because of his remaining contract.

They wouldn't have to pay him though if another team signs him. Which someone probably would pretty quickly.

Incidentally, Tampa gave Cooper the same one year extension, but they said he's coming back next year.

 

[Grigowski]

I could see this organization actually balking at canning Bednar because of his remaining contract.

Classic Avs......

 

[SirLoinOfCloth]

I know it is an unpopular opinion, and I will likely get labelled a Bednar-stan as I have been before, but I don't put the blame on Bednar for this series loss.

His systems worked in most of the games, they were working very well in game 7 until the collapse. The players f***ed up, and we had some bad luck. In the first goal we f***ed up by backing off Rantanen way too much and giving him open ice to shoot. Then we had some bad luck with the wraparound off Girard's skate. Then Drury took a f***ing idiotic penalty with 4 minutes left and our PK sucked. I am totally all in on getting rid of the assistant coaches. Our PP was unacceptable and our PK was trash, and not just this game. There isn't a universe where a PP with Mack, Makar, Nuke, Landy and Necas should be this abhorrent.

The team-defense was really very good, we limited Dallas to 9 shots on goal through two periods. That is excellent. We were up two goals and things were looking good. The boys were playing the systems well, and then they shit the bed. I don't or can't put that on Bednar. The players need to be better than that. But we deserved to win that game. Bednar's system was doing its job. We were close to winning games 2 and 3, but our PP was absolutely abysmal. This could have been done in 4 or 5 games. I don't think DeBoer out coached him this time, in fact Bednar had the upper hand but came out losing. I think the players dropped the ball at the worst time possible.

Not only that but our usual clutch players were not clutch. Lehky, Nuke, Makar, weren't their usual selves. Necas and Nelson weren't what I had hoped. And we relied too much on depth again to score. Makar must have been injured to be that bad at shooting.

This hurt and still does. I had high hopes, only for them to be dashed by lapses in concentration and dumb decision making. But I guess that's how tight this series was. This easily could have gone the other way, but a couple of mistakes and a couple of bounces and we're done. f***ing sucks.

 

[Foppa2118]

I know it is an unpopular opinion, and I will likely get labelled a Bednar-stan as I have been before, but I don't put the blame on Bednar for this series loss.

His systems worked in most of the games, they were working very well in game 7 until the collapse. The players f***ed up, and we had some bad luck. In the first goal we f***ed up by backing off Rantanen way too much and giving him open ice to shoot. Then we had some bad luck with the wraparound off Girard's skate. Then Drury took a f***ing idiotic penalty with 4 minutes left and our PK sucked. I am totally all in on getting rid of the assistant coaches. Our PP was unacceptable and our PK was trash, and not just this game. There isn't a universe where a PP with Mack, Makar, Nuke, Landy and Necas should be this abhorrent.

The team-defense was really very good, we limited Dallas to 9 shots on goal through two periods. That is excellent. We were up two goals and things were looking good. The boys were playing the systems well, and then they shit the bed. I don't or can't put that on Bednar. The players need to be better than that. But we deserved to win that game. Bednar's system was doing its job. We were close to winning games 2 and 3, but our PP was absolutely abysmal. This could have been done in 4 or 5 games. I don't think DeBoer out coached him this time, in fact Bednar had the upper hand but came out losing. I think the players dropped the ball at the worst time possible.

Not only that but our usual clutch players were not clutch. Lehky, Nuke, Makar, weren't their usual selves. Necas and Nelson weren't what I had hoped. And we relied too much on depth again to score. Makar must have been injured to be that bad at shooting.

This hurt and still does. I had high hopes, only for them to be dashed by lapses in concentration and dumb decision making. But I guess that's how tight this series was. This easily could have gone the other way, but a couple of mistakes and a couple of bounces and we're done. f***ing sucks.

The thing is, not only did the coaches put them in a position to win 6 out of 7 games, the assistant coaches were good enough to have good special teams to end the regular season too.

PP was 1st in the NHL the last 33 games, and the PK was 4th in the NHL the last 60 games, including a 40 game stretch where they were tied for 1st.

The constant theme the whole series IMO was poor execution on plays/shots, and mistakes from the players. 5v5 and both special teams.

I understand the argument that they may need a new voice. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. But this feels like a classic, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink" scenario IMO.

 

[NMAvsman]

I know it is an unpopular opinion, and I will likely get labelled a Bednar-stan as I have been before, but I don't put the blame on Bednar for this series loss.

His systems worked in most of the games, they were working very well in game 7 until the collapse. The players f***ed up, and we had some bad luck. In the first goal we f***ed up by backing off Rantanen way too much and giving him open ice to shoot. Then we had some bad luck with the wraparound off Girard's skate. Then Drury took a f***ing idiotic penalty with 4 minutes left and our PK sucked. I am totally all in on getting rid of the assistant coaches. Our PP was unacceptable and our PK was trash, and not just this game. There isn't a universe where a PP with Mack, Makar, Nuke, Landy and Necas should be this abhorrent.

The team-defense was really very good, we limited Dallas to 9 shots on goal through two periods. That is excellent. We were up two goals and things were looking good. The boys were playing the systems well, and then they shit the bed. I don't or can't put that on Bednar. The players need to be better than that. But we deserved to win that game. Bednar's system was doing its job. We were close to winning games 2 and 3, but our PP was absolutely abysmal. This could have been done in 4 or 5 games. I don't think DeBoer out coached him this time, in fact Bednar had the upper hand but came out losing. I think the players dropped the ball at the worst time possible.

Not only that but our usual clutch players were not clutch. Lehky, Nuke, Makar, weren't their usual selves. Necas and Nelson weren't what I had hoped. And we relied too much on depth again to score. Makar must have been injured to be that bad at shooting.

This hurt and still does. I had high hopes, only for them to be dashed by lapses in concentration and dumb decision making. But I guess that's how tight this series was. This easily could have gone the other way, but a couple of mistakes and a couple of bounces and we're done. f***ing sucks.

I am with you on this. I am angry that we went full mental shut down at a key time...to me this loss is entirely on the players....especially guys that we really needed to step up. I love me some Makar, but as I said a million times, if he wasn't hurt for this, he sure played like it. He was simply awful for what we needed out of him. Mack's lack of defense and cherry picking also cost us. Too much perimeter stuff....needed more guys crashing the net. Its always the same with this team in losses, too much finesse not enough grit. Only our 4th line showed it, and they were undersized. I was especially disappointed in Coyle as well as I thought his grit would be vital. Biggest heart on the team belongs to LOC. I think this team can still do it, especially with Landy back at "C" for the year. Bottom line, first round was a tough match-up, but losing both OT games was a dagger. Mikko eventually owning us was a forgone conclusion.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I am with you on this. I am angry that we went full mental shut down at a key time...to me this loss is entirely on the players....especially guys that we really needed to step up. I love me some Makar, but as I said a million times, if he wasn't hurt for this, he sure played like it. He was simply awful for what we needed out of him. Mack's lack of defense and cherry picking also cost us. Too much perimeter stuff....needed more guys crashing the net. Its always the same with this team in losses, too much finesse not enough grit. Only our 4th line showed it, and they were undersized. I was especially disappointed in Coyle as well as I thought his grit would be vital. Biggest heart on the team belongs to LOC. I think this team can still do it, especially with Landy back at "C" for the year. Bottom line, first round was a tough match-up, but losing both OT games was a dagger. Mikko eventually owning us was a forgone conclusion.

If only Bednar had tried Necas with Nelson.

The fact that he didn't... man it's hard for me to believe our team was put in the best situation to succeed with Jared's decisions on the lineup and his lack of emphasis on anything other than his top five skaters.

 

[ABasin]

The thing is, not only did the coaches put them in a position to win 6 out of 7 games, the assistant coaches were good enough to have good special teams to end the regular season too.

PP was 1st in the NHL the last 33 games, and the PK was 4th in the NHL the last 60 games, including a 40 game stretch where they were tied for 1st.

The constant theme the whole series IMO was poor execution on plays/shots, and mistakes from the players. 5v5 and both special teams.

I understand the argument that they may need a new voice. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. But this feels like a classic, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink" scenario IMO.

I think the one exception to this line of thought is the power play. The Avs had a pretty strong idea that Dallas would be their opponent for a damn long time. They had weeks to prepare. And the PP, with but a few exceptions, was a pile of monkey crap.

I do agree that the players gave this away, in general. They had leads in the 3rd period in three of the four losses. They just choked.

 

[Foppa2118]

If only Bednar had tried Necas with Nelson.

The fact that he didn't... man it's hard for me to believe our team was put in the best situation to succeed with Jared's decisions on the lineup and his lack of emphasis on anything other than his top five skaters.

Early in the series was the time to do it. I agree, this was a mistake. After the Game 2 or 3 losses especially, but they still dominated Game 4 and won.

Kind of understandable not to switch it up after that Game 6 win or when up 2-0 in the third of Game 7 though.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I think the one exception to this line of thought is the power play. The Avs had a pretty strong idea that Dallas would be their opponent for a damn long time. They had weeks to prepare. And the PP, with but a few exceptions, was a pile of monkey crap.

I do agree that the players gave this away, in general. They had leads in the 3rd period in three of the four losses. They just choked.

The Avs PP is going to continue to suffer and get worse until they change it up completely.

We no longer have a cheat-shot one-timer at the right circle, we have to change the setup. It doesn't work without Mikko.

This is why I find it easier to blame the coaching staff than the players this season.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Early in the series was the time to do it. I agree, this was a mistake. After the Game 2 or 3 losses especially, but they still dominated Game 4 and won.

Kind of understandable not to switch it up after that Game 6 win or when up 2-0 in the third of Game 7 though.

How long did he have after the TDL? He didn't have to wait until early in the f***ing playoffs. Should've happened within the first 4 games. This was complete dereliction of duty.

 

[katfude]

It's Monday. Why aren't the papers filled?

 

[Foppa2118]

How long did he have after the TDL? He didn't have to wait until early in the f***ing playoffs. Should've happened within the first 4 games. This was complete dereliction of duty.

Yes I agree. Never seemed like he wanted to do it outside that brief stint, which doesn't make sense, because both he and Nelson looked good together, and neither really looked good after that.

It was begging for a switch up early in the series. Who knows if that changes Games 2, 3, 5, or 7.