Jared Bednar & Co. Discussion Thread

[SirLoinOfCloth]

Well - we're not talking about the 1976 Flyers versus the Red Army and the "Broad Street Bullies." Which, by the way, was the most thrilling five minute start to any hockey game I've ever seen. Every Russian was hit on every play whether it was a the middle of the ice or heaven forbid, near the boards where they were crucified. I digress.

Bedsy is very structured. This can be good and bad. (I wonder if Jared has the days of the week stitched on his underwear?) Being physical is a mindset. It means checking hard so a player thinks twice about nonchalantly going into the corner and leisurely passing it out of their "D" zone. The truly great teams play with physicality, skill and finesse. They battle for every inch of the ice and use their bodies in front of the net and wear an opponent down. For too long, Joe Sakic downplayed questions about the Avs not having enough toughness and grit. And I'm a huge Sakic fan so let's get that out of the way.

A physical hockey team will beat a finesse team nine times out of ten. Especially in the playoffs. No one is asking for wild head hunting. But to forget about hitting or that hockey is a contact sport (unlike basketball - by definition, but the NBA lets you play with your hands, feet, arms, elbows and does more "checking" than some NHL teams - I digress again) severely lessens your chance of winning the Stanley Cup.

It is interesting that two of the teams people here fear the most in the playoffs - Stars and Oilers, are both below the Avs in terms of Hits/60.

Our hits per game is 10 below that of Florida (#1) which is significant, but to the teams in the west that we are in competition with:

Oilers and Stars ~4 less per game
Vegas about the same as us
Jets and Wild ~1 more per game

And of the top 10 teams in Hits/60, 6 are not in the playoffs right now, and 1 is a wildcard team.

I think Bednar's distaste for hitting is way overblown here. Sure, we're in the bottom quarter of teams, but the delta isn't that significant from most of the other playoff teams, Florida excepted.

 

[avsfan2189]

We give the coaching staff shit when it comes to our special teams when its cold,

so I'm going to show some love to the coaching staff for the PP and PK

in the last 3 months Avs PK is top 5:

Avs PP is also red hot in the last 2 months:

If you go by really recent as in the last month Avs are:

4th in PP & 12th in PK

Gotta give credit where credit's due, especially if we blame them for when it's cold and underperforming

This team was 9-9 in November and 16-13 in December and the team's now

Jared & co. deserves some credit here too even warts n all in some personel decisions and ice time allocations.

only losing 11 more times in regulation since December 7th is unreal

 

[Foppa2118]

Weird that for a guy like DeBoer, who supposedly out coaches Bednar all the time, he seemed to have no answer for the Avs, with shots 34-15 with six minutes left in the third, and his team highly motivated to win.

Maybe there were other reasons for some of those previous losses?

 

[flyfysher]

Reading some of these posts show you how quickly things change. Dump Bednar.

 

[forsbergavs32]

Reading some of these posts show you how quickly things change. Dump Bednar.

If they end up losing this series, or hell even if they win this one and lose next round, he needs to go. I'm thankful for the Cup win but his head scratching decisions are just enough and its probably time for a new voice.

 

[Pokecheque]

Again, if they lose this series I will be shocked beyond belief if he isn’t gone.

If by chance the Avs come back and win it (which I don’t anticipate) then I think DeBoer gets the boot.

 

[flyfysher]

If they end up losing this series, or hell even if they win this one and lose next round, he needs to go. I'm thankful for the Cup win but his head scratching decisions are just enough and its probably time for a new voice.

I’ll always be grateful that he coached the team to the SC championship He was the right coach for the time. But I think his time is now past.

No one can defend the line ups he has been icing. From the TDL, he should have been identifying what worked and then drilling the players. Instead we look like the Keystone Cops. If you can’t motivate a team then you have lost the room and it’s time to go.

 

[Tommy Shelby]

He's done.

His system doesn't work anymore.

If he doesn't have an unrealistically deep team, he plays the 4th line 5 minutes a game, and the top line 25+ minutes.
If the opposition clogs up the ice, he has no answer to it.
If the opposition pressures the boards near our blueline, all they have to do is dump it in, wait there, and sure enough our defensemen will send the puck there and have it intercepted. Also no answer to this.

The PP is an absolute embarrassment and has been for a lot of the season. The opposition simply needs to keep sticks in the middle of their box and sure enough, one of MacK, Necas or Drouin will try and force the puck through 4 sticks and have it intercepted.
Then on the flipside, the PK does an awful job at covering the slot and teams exploit this

His teams only look dominant when the other team tries to skate with them. That's where the success to his style lies, he's not a tactician or good at adjustments, never has been and most likely never will be

 

[Pokecheque]

If indeed this is the end, there are a couple things about Bednar's system that I hope leave with him.

1. He doesn't emphasize net-front presence. So many times I see a centering feed or a rebound head to the slot area...and no one is there. I think he pushes for motion across the net area, but he likes his forwards near the posts. Really makes it hard for them to make adjustments when the other team takes away ice and doesn't let them get away with longer shots and they have to get those greasy goals. They just don't seem to know how to scrum in front of the net, and they are woefully inept when it comes to deflections. Even without Pavelski, the Stars are 10X better at it, just look at how Benn scored their first goal last night. That's a set play they practice. The only time I heard of an Avs player practice deflections, it was Landeskog doing it on his own time.

2. The penalty kill system has always been horrid. It only works when the goalie is completely on his game, and/or there are forwards like Helm who just know how to get sticks in lanes and create turnovers. Otherwise it's just them hanging on for dear life and hoping they get lucky. It's always confounded me how Bednar emphasizes skating skating SKATING everywhere else and in every other situation, but he insists on the least aggressive penalty kill. The switch to the diamond formation certainly helped matters but not nearly enough.

I just hope whoever they get isn't some old-school stooge. I have no wish to see an Avs team try and emulate what teams like Dallas do, they need a coach who knows how to neutralize that sort of system.

 

[wayninja]

I gotta admit. The guy is really starting to grow on me.

 

[The Merchant]

 

[The Kingslayer]

Good coach. Helped bring the Avs a cup. Will find a job fast. If he loses again to DeBoers its simply time to move on.

 

[the_fan]

I’ve been against firing Bednar, but I’m also starting to think if we do lose to Dallas in the playoffs again, change is probably needed. There are only so many assets CMac can give up to improve the roster, and he can’t keep doing that, so next step will probably be a coaching change

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I’ve been against firing Bednar, but I’m also starting to think if we do lose to Dallas in the playoffs again, change is probably needed. There are only so many assets CMac can give up to improve the roster, and he can’t keep doing that, so next step will probably be a coaching change

I'm of the mind that not getting out of the first round and keeping Bednar around should be turning the heat up to the point that CMac should probably be the next domino not Bednar if the Avs struggle next season.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

I'm of the mind that not getting out of the first round and keeping Bednar around should be turning the heat up to the point that CMac should probably be the next domino not Bednar if the Avs struggle next season.

GMs usually aren’t fired until they’ve had a chance to bring in their own coach and fail with that choice. They convince the President “oh if I had XYZ as coach we would be on the same page.”

CMac “inherited” Bednar from Sakic. He hasn’t gotten to make a head coach hire together with Joe as the President.

I’d imagine he will be given the opportunity to bring in his own coach before he is let go.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

GMs usually aren’t fired until they’ve had a chance to bring in their own coach and fail with that choice. They convince the President “oh if I had XYZ as coach we would be on the same page.”

CMac “inherited” Bednar from Sakic. He hasn’t gotten to make a head coach hire together with Joe as the President.

I’d imagine he will be given the opportunity to bring in his own coach before he is let go.

Yeah, but if you watch three strikes go by without taking a swing, you're still out.

I agree though, GMs should and typically do get a couple of coaches before they are shown the doors. It's also true he inheirited Bednar. However, it is also true that he extended Bednar making him the second longest serving NHL HC. I'd say at this point Bednar is his guy and depending on how things unfold it is beginning to look like CMac has hitched the Avs wagon on him. He hasn't even forced an AC change on Bednar.

When you actually have an open Stanley Cup window, if you aren't evolving you are greasing the sashes and speeding up the closing of the window.

 

[wayninja]

CMAC should also be fired if we lose. Preferably before the players leave the ice.

 

[the_fan]

CMAC should also be fired if we lose. Preferably before the players leave the ice.

CMac’s only big mistake was not re-signing Kadri. Other than that he’s been fine. Not sure what more he could do to help this team win

 

[wayninja]

CMac’s only big mistake was not re-signing Kadri. Other than that he’s been fine. Not sure what more he could do to help this team win

Nothing he could do

 

[the_fan]

Nothing he could do

Actually on second thought, I’d fire CMac just for not re-signing Naz. If we had Kadri right now we’d beat Dallas

 

[wayninja]

Actually on second thought, I’d fire CMac just for not re-signing Naz. If we had Kadri right now we’d beat Dallas

That's the spirit. Keep this up and we won't need to fire you.

 

[Foppa2118]

GMs usually aren’t fired until they’ve had a chance to bring in their own coach and fail with that choice. They convince the President “oh if I had XYZ as coach we would be on the same page.”

CMac “inherited” Bednar from Sakic. He hasn’t gotten to make a head coach hire together with Joe as the President.

I’d imagine he will be given the opportunity to bring in his own coach before he is let go.

He may get another coach, and I don't necessarily want CMac fired, but I think for all intents and purposes Bednar was his hire.

Joe likely didn't know much at all about him. CMac knew him very well from Columbus and as GM for Spinrgfield. He's the one that promoted Bednar from assistant to head coach in Springfield.

He's also praised him multiple times recently.

IMO both Pratt before him and Bednar were basically CMac hires. He likely convinced Joe to hire them.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

He may get another coach, and I don't necessarily want CMac fired, but I think for all intents and purposes Bednar was his hire.

Joe likely didn't know much at all about him. CMac knew him very well from Columbus and as GM for Spinrgfield. He's the one that promoted Bednar from assistant to head coach in Springfield.

He's also praised him multiple times recently.

IMO both Pratt before him and Bednar were basically CMac hires. He likely convinced Joe to hire them.

And Chris is the GM that signed Bednar to his current extension, making him the second longest currently serving HC in the NHL.

If that's not a ringing endorsement, I don't know what is.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

He may get another coach, and I don't necessarily want CMac fired, but I think for all intents and purposes Bednar was his hire.

Joe likely didn't know much at all about him. CMac knew him very well from Columbus and as GM for Spinrgfield. He's the one that promoted Bednar from assistant to head coach in Springfield.

He's also praised him multiple times recently.

IMO both Pratt before him and Bednar were basically CMac hires. He likely convinced Joe to hire them.

Although, I'm pretty sure Joe knew Pratt pretty well didn't he? I mean, they won a f***ing Stanley Cup together. I don't put the credit on Chris for that. Yes, I think Pratt is a good AC. But... he's been an AC for this team for 9 seasons now. Much like Bednar, that's just an incredibly long time for a coaching teams message to stay relevant. There's only so many ways you can say skate harder before the message gets stale and lost.

Please note, I do believe Bednar has a system... but I do believe absolutely skating harder and faster than the other team is the only way it can work. There's just not much nuance to our game this season. We really haven't beaten teams in different ways. Sure we've had the foot down for closer to sixty minutes in some games, but even the others that are close losses or comeback wins, the gameplan was the same... it just was capable of being executed for the final ten minutes of a regular season game.

Our breakouts... for crying out loud how many times do we need to watch the forwads bail the defensize zone the moment a dman looks at the puck. Doesn't matter that the puck is on the other side of the net from Manson... he looked at it and that's good enough for a lot of our forwards. (Slight exaggeration... the bail the moment the dman appears to gain control of the puck, with no regards to the pressure, numbers or positioning facing the dman. It's like they think, dman's got it... it's his responsibility to make that first pass work...it's on him alone.).

This is what his fast counter attack system is designed around. It's why we get hemmed in so much. These risks are built and baked into his strategy and haven't changed regardless of the capabilities of his personnel.

 

[Foppa2118]

Although, I'm pretty sure Joe knew Pratt pretty well didn't he? I mean, they won a f***ing Stanley Cup together. I don't put the credit on Chris for that. Yes, I think Pratt is a good AC. But... he's been an AC for this team for 9 seasons now. Much like Bednar, that's just an incredibly long time for a coaching teams message to stay relevant. There's only so many ways you can say skate harder before the message gets stale and lost.

Yeah, that point was about Bednar not necessarily Pratt.

Joe knew Pratt as a player, but CMac probably knew a lot more about him as an assistant coach with Springfield while CMac was their GM.

Pratt actually preceded Bednar in Springfield. He was Rob Riley's assistant the year before Bednar was hired there, when Bedsy was still with Peoria.

Not sure if Pratt was originally Riley's idea or CMac's, but I'd guess he was probably CMac's. I don't think he had a connection with Riley.

Riley's like 20 years older and was a scout with Columbus before being head coach in Springfield, and was head coach of Army in the NCAA for like two decades while Pratter was playing.