Proposal: James VanRiemsdyk for Mikhail Sergachev

[HuGo Sham]

The question of how long the window to winning a Cup will stay open for the Habs is an interesting one, even to a Leafs fan. My first answer is that the Habs will stay a playoff team and at least have a shot at the Cup as long as Price remains the best goalie in the world. Goalies are inherently unpredictable so who knows how long that will be! It could be a number of years, however. However, even a superstar goalie is not enough to make a team a Cup favourite by himself. Cup winners normally have not only at least a very good goalie, but also a top defenseman, center and winger. I suppose the candidates for those roles would be Price, Galchenyuk, Pacioretty and Weber in the case of the Habs. The one I would be crossing my fingers on, were I a Habs fan, is Galchenyuk. The one whose best by date is approaching the fastest is Weber. I think the answer to the "how long" question is perhaps "as long as Weber remains a star blueliner."

Teams also need depth of good players, however. Acquiring Phil Kessel certainly helped the Pens last season in their Cup run. I think acquiring JVR could have the same effect, though there are obviously no guarantees. It may also be that acquiring a winger is easier than getting a very good DMan or center. But... if, if, the Habs are so eager to make a Cup run this year that they are willing to give up their best prospect by far, would spending the asset on a winger actually be the best move?

Just by way of speculation, what if the Habs had a go at obtaining Tanev? I know there are interminable threads here on the general subject of a Tanev/JVr trade. Maybe there have been threads just as long on Tanev to Montreal. But I am just using the idea as an illustration. It isn't a proposal so if there are Canucks fans lurking here, Peace! I do think that trading Sergachev for a really solid Dman would be a better use for Montreal's top asset than trading him for a winger. If I were the Habs GM, I think that would be the direction I would be exploring first. Get a good enough Dman and maybe the best by date on Weber doesn't matter as much, so it could also be an investment for the future.

But who knows, maybe the Habs will come back to acquiring JVR later, even if he doesn't fill their most pressing need.

you should worry about Toronto's window ever opening. Galchenyuk has trended upwards every year. And is on pace for 80 points as a 22 year old. Weber is like Chara, who is still a top 2 at 40. Is that his place? no, but size, toughness, shot, hockey IQ and positioning go a LONG way. Weber will be a top 3 for the next 5 years. at which point, Dmen like Sergachev, Juulsen (who will play on Canada's top pair but was called a bust by leafs fans last year)...
do leafs have d prospects like this?
my concern is at skill forward, but habs will address that in next year or so.
habs if managed properly, will be in race for years...and that's all one can ask for. just make sure you don't become the oilers

 

[REALTALK81]

As much as it pains me to say it..Habs have a great team. I predict cup finals for them. Just waiting to see how they look when the home/away games even out but dare I say they'll WIN THE WHOLE THING. Price, Weber, Chucky, Radulov, Gally and Patches are all a solid core to contend for the next half decade or so. Markov is playing good but he will need to be replaced pretty soon IMO. Who better to do that than Sergachev? I can't wait for the Leafs to be serious contenders for years. Still a couple pieces and years away from that.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

tornto would kill for this deal. serggy is a piece that would fit like a glove with their current state.

JVR would really help montreal now.

but no way montreal fans would agree to this as they think serggy is the next coming of jesus. (yes they highly overrate him)

value probably is close and this would be a trade that wouldn't happen.

Yeup as a Leafs fan this is very enticing. I think the Leafs can sneak into a wild card spot this year so I would want to see where we are before making the trade.

 

[4thline]

My thoughts-

On JVR- the ship has sailed on a Sergachev class elite prospect as a return. With two full years left maybe, not now. As a rental his return would look like a 1st+ A-/B+ prospect (Schebak/McCarron/Juulsen type in the context of the habs). Of course, he's not a rental, and the Leafs would expect more to compensate for that extra year. People are acting like that second year counts for nothing because he has to be protected- that's flat out ridiculous. Each team only loses one player, so at most the negative impact is the difference in value between a teams 7th and 8th best non exempt forwards... in other words in most cases next to nothing. In the case of teams that lose a d-men actually nothing.

On the Habs window- people are treating it way too black and white. It's not that the chance to win disappears after three years, it's that it's undeniably better now with Price making 50-60% of his worth, Galchenyuk 40-50%, Pacioretty 60ish, Radulov etc...

 

[Domonsky]

I think we are in a win mode but not in a win now mode.

Price could be that dominant for the next 7-8 years IMO. Maybe even more.
I mean if tim thomas was dominant at 40yo why not price?

Weber can be that good up to 40yo as well as already stated in this tread by a fellow habs fan. Our #1 center is 22yo and still progressing, gallagher is just 24 , patch is 28, radulov is 30 so not that old yet
Markov is the only one one that wont be there in 5 years but the rest of the core will still be there. Markov will switch is place with sergachev . So i dont see why we should go against MB philosophy about not sacrifiing the prospects for some rentals.


To trade any prospect thay could help us for the next 10-15 years for only one full year of a future UFA would be a mistake IMO.

 

[67Cup]

you should worry about Toronto's window ever opening. Galchenyuk has trended upwards every year. And is on pace for 80 points as a 22 year old. Weber is like Chara, who is still a top 2 at 40. Is that his place? no, but size, toughness, shot, hockey IQ and positioning go a LONG way. Weber will be a top 3 for the next 5 years. at which point, Dmen like Sergachev, Juulsen (who will play on Canada's top pair but was called a bust by leafs fans last year)...
do leafs have d prospects like this?
my concern is at skill forward, but habs will address that in next year or so.
habs if managed properly, will be in race for years...and that's all one can ask for. just make sure you don't become the oilers

If you can't see that my post was about as positive to the Habs as a Leafs fan is likely ever to get, you have a problem. You also are rather optimistic in your evaluations of the length of the prime of your players but that is your prerogative. I'm optimistic about my team too. I think there is good reason for that optimism but yes, things could go south again for the Leafs. As a fan who has watched the NHL since the days of Maurice Richard, to use a Habs reference, I actually am aware that things don't always work out the way I hope for the Leafs.

The only thing I will dispute here is the business of defense prospects. i agree that Sergachev is certainly better than any Leafs prospect on the blueline. That's why the OP's proposal would be interesting to Leafs fans. As I posted, however, I doubt that the proposed trade would be the best use of their top prospect by your management. But beyond that, the situation is more uncertain. You may recall that Travis Dermott made Team Canada over, among others, Juulsen. Andrew Nielsen was a WHL first all star in the. WHL eastern division, over two first rounders on the second team, Bean and Sanheim. Juulsen was second team, in a weaker field, in the west. Nielsen has a lot to learn, but so far is very productive for the Marlies and is exceeding Leaf expectations. I don't know which of the three is best - a case could be made for any of them. But it is by no means obvious that Juulsen is significantly superior to the Leafs prospects. It would be pleasant and interesting to debate that with a reasonable poster.

Two other points; firstly that the Leafs have such a large group of excellent prospects up front that they are in a position to trade for defense prospects, if they feel it necessary. The other is that most of us Leaf fans are very happy about the arrival of Zaitsev, who is not a prospect in the usual sense, but certainly has a lot of upside over the next few years.

To get back to the topic of the thread, Sergachev is an excellent prospect and I would love to have him. I can't see a scenario where that is very likely to happen, however. I could see the Habs wanting JVR for a Cup run, but if they do, they would send someone other than Sergachev the other way.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

If we trade Sergachev, it will be for a guy of Duchene's caliber.
JVR is a level below that and could get a player like Hudon, Scherbak

 

[jacks*]

In your opinion of course. We'll see where you're 2 years from now I guess. I don't really care either way TBH. If you think your window will be open for so long that it's not even a consideration at this time, hey more power to you. Try not to be too surprised when the inevitable happens. And BTW, that "young core" of yours is nothing special, every team has a few good young players, without Price that core of yours is worth ... well, we all saw their worth last year didn't we.

It's also pretty funny how chide me for not giving you a specific answer to "how long" considering my answer was more specific than yours. A good while, yeah OK, whatever that means.

Well we're seeing the worth of your young players as we speak.5th from the bottom is nothing to brag about.

 

[jacks*]

Galchenyuk: Number 1C, currently ppg and 7th in the league in scoring
Pacioretty: Proven 35 goalscorer
Radulov: Top 10 talent, most likely to end up among the best scorers at the end of the season
Price: Best goalie and best player in the world
Weber: Top 5 defenseman, this year he's been the best defenseman in the league

How many teams have that?

In comparison, the leafs don't have a single one of them.

But they have the rookie of the ...no wait they don't even have that.

 

[FerrisRox]

To MTL: James VanRiemsdyk
To TOR: Mikhail Sergachev

Y/N?

A player as poor and lazy defensively would flame out very quickly under Michel Therrien. This would be a disaster. He'd be in the pressbox in less than a month.

 

[BJCOLLINS]

A player as poor and lazy defensively would flame out very quickly under Michel Therrien. This would be a disaster. He'd be in the pressbox in less than a month.

cough...cough...David Desharnais....cough....cough

 

[sansabri]

cough...cough...David Desharnais....cough....cough

Lazy isn't a word I'd use to describe DD.

 

[67Cup]

Therrien is more demanding than Babcock?

 

[sansabri]

Therrien is more demanding than Babcock?

I'd hope so? No one expects the Leafs to go deep into the playoffs.

 

[FerrisRox]

cough...cough...David Desharnais....cough....cough

Who centered the fourth line tonight, has been a healthy scratch this year and didn't even cost a draft pick to bring into the organization, not a top prospect.

 

[FerrisRox]

Therrien is more demanding than Babcock?

That should be pretty obvious.

I mean, Babcock held a press conference to announce the team was going to lose and lose a lot. He told the fans to expect pain.

You think that sounds like a demanding coach?

The guy dresses Hunwick and Marincin regularly. You think he's out there chasing wins at all costs?

Judging by your name, I would assume you watch the Leafs. You think Babcock has been demanding on the team so far? You've got to be kidding.

 

[67Cup]

That should be pretty obvious.

I mean, Babcock held a press conference to announce the team was going to lose and lose a lot. He told the fans to expect pain.

You think that sounds like a demanding coach?

The guy dresses Hunwick and Marincin regularly. You think he's out there chasing wins at all costs?

Judging by your name, I would assume you watch the Leafs. You think Babcock has been demanding on the team so far? You've got to be kidding.

Yeah, Babcock gets to coach Team Canada because he isn't perceived to be demanding. I'm not the one who has to be kidding.

Babcock is executing a realistic management plan that emphasizes youth and requires patience. He was honest enough to tell fans at the beginning of last season that this would cause pain. That has absolutely nothing to do with whether he is demanding. Your dislike of his lineup choices is equally irrelevant to the point.

 

[sansabri]

Yeah, Babcock gets to coach Team Canada because he isn't perceived to be demanding. I'm not the one who has to be kidding.

Babcock is executing a realistic management plan that emphasizes youth and requires patience. He was honest enough to tell fans at the beginning of last season that this would cause pain. That has absolutely nothing to do with whether he is demanding. Your dislike of his lineup choices is equally irrelevant to the point.

Because Babcock went to back-to-back Stanley Cup Finals. That's why he got the job.

Even Blysma got to coach in the Olympics. The **** does that tell you?

 

[BayStreetBully]

Yeah, Babcock gets to coach Team Canada because he isn't perceived to be demanding. I'm not the one who has to be kidding.

Babcock is executing a realistic management plan that emphasizes youth and requires patience. He was honest enough to tell fans at the beginning of last season that this would cause pain. That has absolutely nothing to do with whether he is demanding. Your dislike of his lineup choices is equally irrelevant to the point.

Spot on. It's as clear as day. Or at least it should be. I think some people just go out of their way to believe what they want.

 

[loyaltotheend]

If we trade Sergachev, it will be for a guy of Duchene's caliber.
JVR is a level below that and could get a player like Hudon, Scherbak

Just to gauge your sanity level, as I haven't been following all your posts: I assume you mean as a + with something really good? Like Patches ballpark? (Maybe not him directly, but that same area)

 

[loyaltotheend]

I'd hope so? No one expects the Leafs to go deep into the playoffs.

For a person with nearly 20K posts you sure say odd things. Are they all this spiteful? Just trying to take a (poor) shot at the Leafs instead of respond to his comment.


What does Price being a hab have to do with how demanding a coach MT is? He's talked about around the boards, (by many,many,many habs fans) as being a terrible coach.

We saw how deep in the playoffs he was able to coach a team that doesn't have the best goalie in the world last year. I don't get how his coaching is apparently now the determining factor?

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Well we're seeing the worth of your young players as we speak.5th from the bottom is nothing to brag about.

They've been running up to 8 rookies at a time in their lineup and sit 16th in the league for points percentage. Not really sure what you are talking about? With Carey Price, they'd probably have at least another 6 - 8 points (if you watched the games) which would put them in the 5 - 10 range. That's quite remarkable given forward players don't usually hit stride until years 3 - 4. Not sure I'd get too comfortable if I were you.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

But they have the rookie of the ...no wait they don't even have that.

Your "proven" #1 C has a 4 point lead (1 more GP) on Toronto's recently turned 19 years old #1 C, who plays on a line with Nylander (rookie) and Hyman.

At 28 years old Pacioretty has scored 35 goals twice in his career. The Leafs have very few vets in their lineup, with JVR probably being closest to the feat but he gets injured sometimes. I wouldn't bet on it being long until you see a few Leafs get there.

Radulov? Well he's running near 5 Leaf players (behind several) of which 3 are rookies so I'm not sure how you pretend Toronto has no one of his caliber?

Price and Weber I give you hands down. The rest of what you've provided Toronto can already equal or outmatch (and most of them are rookies).

Tough thing is though those 2 pieces are pretty big.

 

[sansabri]

For a person with nearly 20K posts you sure say odd things. Are they all this spiteful? Just trying to take a (poor) shot at the Leafs instead of respond to his comment.


What does Price being a hab have to do with how demanding a coach MT is? He's talked about around the boards, (by many,many,many habs fans) as being a terrible coach.

We saw how deep in the playoffs he was able to coach a team that doesn't have the best goalie in the world last year. I don't get how his coaching is apparently now the determining factor?

And for someone with so very few posts, you don't seem to know what you're going on about. If you're going to bring up last year (speaking of poor shots), you might want to consider who else was injured on that team: Gallagher, Petry, Subban, etc,.

I've already seen some Leafs fans criticize Babcock's coaching. This is pretty common among all fanbases when a coach has been around for several years. Won't be long before Leafs fans criticize Babcock en masse. Look at how relieved many Red Wings fans were when he left.

 

[Kelly]

That should be pretty obvious.

I mean, Babcock held a press conference to announce the team was going to lose and lose a lot. He told the fans to expect pain.

You think that sounds like a demanding coach?

The guy dresses Hunwick and Marincin regularly. You think he's out there chasing wins at all costs?

Judging by your name, I would assume you watch the Leafs. You think Babcock has been demanding on the team so far? You've got to be kidding.

He anointed realistic expectations at the time he was hired.

Who else is he gonna dress other than Hunwick, and Marincin? We're not exactly overflowing with great dmen.

Judging by your posts, you don't watch the Leafs. Babcock is absolutely a demanding coach, look at Nylander, who missed 1 game and is now on the fourth line. If JVR can work under Babcock, he absolutely would work under MT. Ridiculous to suggest otherwise.