News Article: James Neal Suspended 5 Games for Kneeing Brad Marchand

[TCL40]

Think about that.

The NHL viewed it as worthy of missing FIVE GAMES without pay, while the on ice officials viewed it is worthy of nothing more than 2 minutes.

Yep-I am still peeved that this only got 2 minutes.

I think the 2 minutes was a reputation call.

If a Bruin had done this to a Pen they would have been shown the door.

Thankfully at least Shanny understood just how dirty and dangerous this was-even if Marchand got lucky you just can't let guys skate into the heads of prone players.

 

[PB37]

Video of the explanation. Shows a close up view of Neal turning his skate and leg to make sure he hit Marchand's head right before contact.

I wonder if that POS Neal has watched the replay now.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=695100&navid=DL|NHL|home

 

[Bad Hat Harry]

I was thinking 1 or 2 games given no injury and the fact that it was Neal on Marchand.

Thornton is probably going to get 20 which IMO is ridiculous.

But Thorty hasn't had his hearing yet so who knows.

I do think the league intends to make a statement with these suspensions and the fact that Neal got the max for a phone interview doesn't bode well for Thornton.

Shanny still can't go overboard-Thornton will appeal and I don't know that the NHLPA will go for it.

I completely agree.

I saw the Neal play almost like the play where Sean Avery hit Thomas in the head after the whistle a few years ago. The Neal hit was obviously a bit harder and much more dangerous, but I think it was not so much an intent to injure but more designed to piss brad off and get in his head.

If that play is worth 5 games, Thornton's is definitely worth 20. The NHL not only wants to get a handle on dangerous plays, but more importantly for them, games and players that get out of hand and go too far. That is what these suspensions are about; showing players that even if the refs suck, the players still don't control the games.

 

[11MilesPerJohan]

this is the real problem with this league right now. the league keeps trying to hold players accountable and while that is absolutely necessary, it's only part of the equation. I don't see the league holding refs accountable, at least not publicly. They have almost as much a hand in player safety as the players.

Good point, and here is what I think is at play here:

I don't believe that officiating is any worse now than it has been in the past, and I don't believe that players are dirtier now than they have been in the past.

What has changed in recent years is the awareness of head injuries by the league, players, and the fans, the hyper-scrutiny on each borderline hit by pundits, fans, and anyone else with an opinion, and the league trying to cut all this off at the head by doling out more suspensions and being, eh hem, more "transparent" with their reasoning.

With the league tweaking the rules to enhance players safety, and trying to crack down on illegal hits, they have changed the perception we have while watching the game, and in part, have helped to cause some frustration amongst fans. Because, while the officiating is perhaps no less consistent than it has always been, it does seem inconsistent when viewed through the critical lens the league itself has created.

What is happening on the ice and off the ice, does not always seem to match up, and that is frustrating. Furthermore, it seems like the league does not always follow its own rules when doling out punishment. So is it about player safety or is it only sometimes about that? Is it about what a player did on the ice, or is it about that players "star" status, which team he is on, etc.? Maybe this bias doesn't really exist, but it's hard not to scratch your head over some of the decisions and non-decisions that have taken place, Bruins and otherwise.

Once again, part of this is the league itself setting a standard that it then does not itself meet, for various reasons. With all of the media and fan scrutiny paid to each game and each hit, the method for doling out discipline has to be above reproach or else it leads to a bleep storm time and time again, when everyone starts questioning and comparing each hit/suspension. The league has screwed itself by setting a standard and then not living up to it. They have shifted the perception/expectations about the awareness and punishment that comes with these hits, but have then refused to then establish a meaningful and consistent mode of discipline.

 

[Paddington]

I'm good with 5 games. The fact that Marchand wasn't seriously injured plays a part.

I'm in the minority but I don't think Thornton will have the book thrown at him. I'm guessing somewhere in the 7-9 game neighbourhood.

I wish the league would have at least looked Orpik's hit on Loui, even if it's just lip service. There was contact to the head which resulted in an injury. if they want to give Thornton a hefty suspension because of the optics of the incident, they need to say that they are reviewing the Loui hit for the same reason.

 

[dtam83]

i'm surprised at 5 as well. Pleasantly surprised. however, it really should be more because of the attempt to injure. but seems like this has been the max lately.

as for thorty, i'm hoping 8 games max

 

[OutspokenMinority*]

I'm okay with five games in itself, but the problem that I have here is Thornton will likely get more games, and though I still feel Thornton's actions were suspendable, I don't feel like it was worse than what Neal did. The name on the back of the jersey and the immediate result of each play will be what differentiates the suspensions, unfortunately. Thornton plays the game more cleanly than Neal does, even though he is an enforcer and Neal is a "star" player.

Thornton grabbed a player from behind, slew-footed him to the ground and then punched him the face multiple times while he was down (although most of the attempts didn't appear to land at all, and he was clearly pulling the punches he did throw), resulting in the player nearly losing consciousness. On the last punch, it looked like the head was making contact with the ice.

Thornton is screwed. I would guess something like 15 is coming, especially based on Neal's 5.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Good point, and here is what I think is at play here:

I don't believe that officiating is any worse now than it has been in the past, and I don't believe that players are dirtier now than they have been in the past.

What has changed in recent years is the awareness of head injuries by the league, players, and the fans, the hyper-scrutiny on each borderline hit by pundits, fans, and anyone else with an opinion, and the league trying to cut all this off at the head by doling out more suspensions and being, eh hem, more "transparent" with their reasoning.

With the league tweaking the rules to enhance players safety, and trying to crack down on illegal hits, they have changed the perception we have while watching the game, and in part, have helped to cause some frustration amongst fans. Because, while the officiating is perhaps no less consistent than it has always been, it does seem inconsistent when viewed through the critical lens the league itself has created.

What is happening on the ice and off the ice, does not always seem to match up, and that is frustrating. Furthermore, it seems like the league does not always follow its own rules when doling out punishment. So is it about player safety or is it only sometimes about that? Is it about what a player did on the ice, or is it about that players "star" status, which team he is on, etc.? Maybe this bias doesn't really exist, but it's hard not to scratch your head over some of the decisions and non-decisions that have taken place, Bruins and otherwise.

Once again, part of this is the league itself setting a standard that it then does not itself meet, for various reasons. With all of the media and fan scrutiny paid to each game and each hit, the method for doling out discipline has to be above reproach or else it leads to a bleep storm time and time again, when everyone starts questioning and comparing each hit/suspension. The league has screwed itself by setting a standard and then not living up to it. They have shifted the perception/expectations about the awareness and punishment that comes with these hits, but have then refused to then establish a meaningful and consistent mode of discipline.

well then the real problem is that while the rules of the game have evolved to better reflect modern medical understanding of what head injuries can do to person as well as reflect the speed and nastiness of the modern NHL game, the system for enforcing those rules has not evolved in several decades. As long as the NHL insists on relying to two refs to police 12 guys on the ice at a time there is going to continue to be inconsistency and blatantly missed calls.

What the NHL really needs is a 3rd ref watching from the press box who sees exactly what the broadcast crew sees and can call down and override the on-ice officials' call or call a penalty on something that the on-ice refs totally missed.

And if a particular hit looks bad enough that it will warrant a hearing and the on-ice refs only gave it 2 minutes (or none at all) then the 3rd ref in the press box needs to be able to step in and have the guy committing the infraction tossed from the game.

I mean look at the Neal knee...they apparently saw it on the ice but only gave it 2. A ref in the booth with the benefit of a video replay could have seen almost instantly how blatant it was, called down to the ice and had Neal thrown out of the game on the spot.

 

[11MilesPerJohan]

Thornton grabbed a player from behind, slew-footed him to the ground and then punched him the face multiple times while he was down (although most of the attempts didn't appear to land at all, and he was clearly pulling the punches he did throw), resulting in the player nearly losing consciousness. On the last punch, it looked like the head was making contact with the ice.

Thornton is screwed. I would guess something like 15 is coming, especially based on Neal's 5.

I am quite aware of what Thornton did, and I came out strongly against it on this board after it happened. I do think it should be suspendable, and I wouldn't have an issue if it was upwards of 10 games.

But I'm sorry, if you have a massive issue with a player punching someone with gloved hands when he is down (something that does happen, though I agree that it sould not, in the NHL) then you should have just as big of a problem with a player kneeing someone in the head, going at 3/4 speed, while that player is down. I don't see a massive difference between the danger level in those plays. If anything, a knee to the head, skating at that speed, is more dangerous.

It's not that I don't think Thornton should get suspended and sent a message, I do, but I just think that Neal should get equal to what Thornton got, if not more. I just think it becomes about one guy being a fourth line player and one guy being a sniper. It's also about one guy, Marchand, getting up and skating off the ice, and one guy, Orpik, being taken off in a stretcher. I get that part, but let's not pretend that the Neal play was not equally as dangerous.

Neal getting five is fine, but then Thornton should get five as well, IMO. If Thornton gets 10, then that's what Neal should've gotten as well.

 

[11MilesPerJohan]

well then the real problem is that while the rules of the game have evolved to better reflect modern medical understanding of what head injuries can do to person as well as reflect the speed and nastiness of the modern NHL game, the system for enforcing those rules has not evolved in several decades. As long as the NHL insists on relying to two refs to police 12 guys on the ice at a time there is going to continue to be inconsistency and blatantly missed calls.

What the NHL really needs is a 3rd ref watching from the press box who sees exactly what the broadcast crew sees and can call down and override the on-ice officials' call or call a penalty on something that the on-ice refs totally missed.

And if a particular hit looks bad enough that it will warrant a hearing and the on-ice refs only gave it 2 minutes (or none at all) then the 3rd ref in the press box needs to be able to step in and have the guy committing the infraction tossed from the game.

I mean look at the Neal knee...they apparently saw it on the ice but only gave it 2. A ref in the booth with the benefit of a video replay could have seen almost instantly how blatant it was, called down to the ice and had Neal thrown out of the game on the spot.

I think that's a great point, and it really wouldn't be difficult to institute.

 

[BNHL]

Video of the explanation. Shows a close up view of Neal turning his skate and leg to make sure he hit Marchand's head right before contact.

I wonder if that POS Neal has watched the replay now.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=695100&navid=DL|NHL|home

That's the first time I noticed that. Pure dirt!

 

[robert terwilliger]

thornton's going to get thrown out of the league.

 

[eightspokedb]

Brad did it wrong. Should have gone out on a stretcher and flew to Toronto a couple hours later with his doctor issued lollipop in hand.

Its because the Bruins don't have fainting goats on their team....

 

[robert terwilliger]

look out! shawn thornton's mad!

 

[Hali33]

Think about that.

The NHL viewed it as worthy of missing FIVE GAMES without pay, while the on ice officials viewed it is worthy of nothing more than 2 minutes.

Yep.
I don't think Thorty needed to take it to the level he did but these kind of discrepancies are why players still feel like they need to take things into their own hands to defend their players.
Ref had a clear line of sight too. The lack of accountability for the refs and the absolute protection they get is a huge part of the problem.

 

[ksp1957]

I'm beyond pleased with a 5 game suspension, but I can just imagine the weeping and wailing and conspiracy complaints coming out of Pittsburgh right now. Have there been any 911 calls yet ? They'll probably give Thornton 10-15 games, Dupuis zilch and Orpik a 1 game just to make sure that he doesn't hear ringing in his ears.

 

[Candyman]

I wish the league would have at least looked Orpik's hit on Loui, even if it's just lip service. There was contact to the head which resulted in an injury. if they want to give Thornton a hefty suspension because of the optics of the incident, they need to say that they are reviewing the Loui hit for the same reason.

Did you see how hard Eriksson's head hit the ice? I feel like that is what gave him the concussion personally.

 

[SmBoston]

I'm good with 5 games. The fact that Marchand wasn't seriously injured plays a part.

I'm in the minority but I don't think Thornton will have the book thrown at him. I'm guessing somewhere in the 7-9 game neighbourhood.

I wish the league would have at least looked Orpik's hit on Loui, even if it's just lip service. There was contact to the head which resulted in an injury. if they want to give Thornton a hefty suspension because of the optics of the incident, they need to say that they are reviewing the Loui hit for the same reason.

I couldn't agree with you more!

 

[Kazcram]

how in hell is the orpik hit different than torres on hossa torres didn't hi on hossas head but got suspended because hossa was defenceless same as luie. orpik should get 20 for that too

 

[RedeyeRocketeer]

league got this one right

 

[SmBoston]

Yep.
I don't think Thorty needed to take it to the level he did but these kind of discrepancies are why players still feel like they need to take things into their own hands to defend their players.
Ref had a clear line of sight too. The lack of accountability for the refs and the absolute protection they get is a huge part of the problem.

Exactly! Thornton kind of answers that during his interview. You see two players hurt and no call somebody better take it into their own hands.... (Thornton went a little far) but i agree with you it is a huge part of the problem!

 

[DaveFromNB]

That's great he got 5, I'll be fine when Phaneuf gets his two, and Thornton his 10. What I'd really like though is this crap out of the game.

 

[spokedB]

Good. I also want Cindy to get two for that trip.

Can't do that. She'd cry and besides, she's why people go to games. Few penalties, no suspensions.

I was surprised Neal got five, I figured one, maybe two. He's another of their elite "skill" players.

 

[blackngold4877]

Wow, imagine what he would have got if he did it on purpose!

 

[mattbnh]

I think it is more important that players realize that the league is watching, even if the refs miss, or over-penalize or under-penalize the call.
So Neal gets a suspension that fits the deed, not the 2min minor.
Phanauf gets a hearing and likely some games regardless of the refs missing the call. Thornton got a match and indefinite suspension as a result, and we will see how they judge the tape - might be more lenient, might be harsher.

Orpik gets a lolipop because the hit was borderline and Brooks needed a stretcher, while Loui skated off on his own.

Nobody is 100% happy, but the key thing is that the NHL is following up and explaining the reasoning. I don't think they always get it right, but I believe that Shanny-tube is a big improvement over the Campbell era written statements, which didn't even pretend to anything but propaganda.