Value of: Jake Middleton

[57special]

28 yo. 6'2", 220lb LHD.
2.45 AAV till the end of next season

Tough as nails, and a vg fighter. Average skater. Good defensively, with reasonably good decision making. Has improved a lot offensively. Sneaky good pinches, and makes simple, efficient plays. On pace for about 30 points, all of it at ES. Averaging 20 minutes/night. Is now playing 1st pairing due to injuries, but ideally is a middle pairing guy, or can lead a 3rd pairing on a very strong D corp. I would think that he would be an ideal add for a playoff bound team looking for size, toughness, and defense for the next two playoff seasons.

Given MN's cap situation next year, I think it's unlikely Guerin trades him and his small cap hit for anything less than an overpay, but I am of the mind that MN is clearly not going anywhere this year, and probably the next, so they might as well play the young D prospects they have, and look ahead to 25-26.

Click to read more...

 

[Sigh]

What’s the ask from the Bruins?

 

[wintersej]

I think this is a hard discussion to have until the Hanifin situation clears up. Bruins also probably need some clarity on Jake DeBrusk's future. I could see Boston having interest in a few other pieces on the Wild roster, too. Duhaime comes to mind.

But, I'm just not sure what "an overpayment" means.

 

[57special]

What’s the ask from the Bruins?

A 1st, and you'd have to promise to go on a massive losing streak to end the season.

MN can take back a cap dump, even a pretty big one, as long as it's expiring, as Spurgeon is LTIR this year, which gives them 7.5M to play with.

I'm not really sure how to rate Lysell or Beecher, and I would guess that the B's would rather give up the 30-32 2024 pick, anyway.

I don't think a really late 1st is an overpay, once you consider all the factors. How often, and how quickly do those picks end being anything at all?

TBH, I would prefer to deal with a team other than the B's who have a more robust prospect pool, and are more likely to have a higher draft pick. Nothing unreasonable, but something in the the low/mid 20's.

Just noticed that the Bruins don't have any of their first three round 2024 picks. It's looking like pretty slim pickings.

 

[wintersej]

A 1st, and you'd have to promise to go on a massive losing streak to end the season.

MN can take back a cap dump, even a pretty big one, as long as it's expiring, as Spurgeon is LTIR this year, which gives them 7.5M to play with.

I'm not really sure how to rate Lysell or Beecher, and I would guess that the B's would rather give up the 30-32 2023 pick, anyway.

The Bruins don't have a 1st until 2025, the 2024 first belongs to Detroit. They have only made Lysell and Beecher as 1st round picks since 2018. Hard to give up a first, especially for a 4/5 D.

 

[Smitty426]

Kevin Bahl from Jersey straight swap.
half the salary, same term 5 yrs younger
Id like more snarl for our roster, KB is just learning it
Bahl probably becomes what JM is now, its just a window of opportunity thing.

 

[57special]

Kevin Bahl from Jersey straight swap.
half the salary, same term 5 yrs younger
Id like more snarl for our roster, KB is just learning it
Bahl probably becomes what JM is now, its just a window of opportunity thing.

Interesting name, and offer. Congrats on coming up with something that would not only satisfy your team's needs, but also MN's. Too bad that Bahl is a LHD, as MN is full up on them in their prospect pool.

What's the deal with Bahl? What are his strengths and weaknesses?

Middleton might be perfect for you guys. When NJ is healthy they look formidable, but I see them getting pushed around by teams like the Panthers. Funny thing with Middleton's improved play is that you no longer want him to be fighting, though, as he is too valuable to have on the ice. Sometimes the threat is enough, though.

 

[HansonBro]

Probably just a mid pick. Hes not worth a ton

Zing

 

[UConn126]

I'd love him on the Bruins. Gryz would probably have to go the other way for cap purposes, but he could have value to the Wild if he gels there and wants to re-sign.

Not sure what to add because the Bruins don't have a ton of picks or prospects. I'm totally on board to trade Lysell for the right player, but I don't think Middleton is it.

 

[Joseph Nathan]

Probably just a mid pick. Hes not worth a ton

Zing

Huh? Minnesota doesn’t have to trade him and his cap and contract will get a 1st easy. With kaprizov due to become free agent soon, Minnesota has no reason to trade Middleton at all as they are still in competitive mood even though it’s a bad build roster

 

[andora]

Middleton gets a first or a nice combo if he is moved

 

[57special]

I'd love him on the Bruins. Gryz would probably have to go the other way for cap purposes, but he could have value to the Wild if he gels there and wants to re-sign.

Not sure what to add because the Bruins don't have a ton of picks or prospects. I'm totally on board to trade Lysell for the right player, but I don't think Middleton is it.

Gryz/Forbert would be cap dumps. Wild have a ton of d prospects who are ready for NHL TOI. Guerin would hate the former...not a fan of small Dmen unless they are something miraculous like Spurgeon.

Yeah, i don't see the Bruins having a lot to offer. Even Lysell... he sure didn't impress at the WJC, though i know he's been putting up points in the AHL. If he's off the table then I don't think that there is a deal to be made. I think many other teams will have better pick/prospect pools out of which to choose from, while teams like BOS and TOR have been spending those assets to augment their Cup hopes, and don't have much to give.

 

[MNRube]

Id do Lysell plus a pick for Middleton. Wild need speed and a RHS. Eventually you have to see what you have in Lambos, O’Rourke, Hunt and Peart.

I can’t see Guerin moving Middleton though. He’s a Billy G guy through and through and I expect he will get a player-friendly retirement contract eventually like every MN veteran.

 

[Sigh]

The Bruins don't have a 1st until 2025, the 2024 first belongs to Detroit. They have only made Lysell and Beecher as 1st round picks since 2018. Hard to give up a first, especially for a 4/5 D.

Honestly, I’d do it. I do tend to over value guys like this though.

 

[AKL]

Huh? Minnesota doesn’t have to trade him and his cap and contract will get a 1st easy. With kaprizov due to become free agent soon, Minnesota has no reason to trade Middleton at all as they are still in competitive mood even though it’s a bad build roster

Probably just a MID pick. He's not worth a TON.

MIDTON
MID(DLE)TON

 

[Smitty426]

Interesting name, and offer. Congrats on coming up with something that would not only satisfy your team's needs, but also MN's. Too bad that Bahl is a LHD, as MN is full up on them in their prospect pool.

What's the deal with Bahl? What are his strengths and weaknesses?

Middleton might be perfect for you guys. When NJ is healthy they look formidable, but I see them getting pushed around by teams like the Panthers. Funny thing with Middleton's improved play is that you no longer want him to be fighting, though, as he is too valuable to have on the ice. Sometimes the threat is enough, though.

Thx. Bahl had that grit in nyrs series last year abd then it went away in round 2. You see glimpses of it. Some say he's told not to be heavy handed but I can't see that being it. He's young about 100 games played and it's in there just need it to come out and stay out. I don't think we can wait hence the idea. Didn't realize LD is crowded.

 

[AKL]

Thx. Bahl had that grit in nyrs series last year abd then it went away in round 2. You see glimpses of it. Some say he's told not to be heavy handed but I can't see that being it. He's young about 100 games played and it's in there just need it to come out and stay out. I don't think we can wait hence the idea. Didn't realize LD is crowded.

He's young NHL-experience wise, not age wise, and this is his fourth pro season. If he was going to further develop into a physical force, it would have happened by now..

Straight up? Doesn't make sense for the Wild. You want to talk about upgrading Bahl to Middleton with NJ covering the difference? That's a conversation that could make sense.

 

[wintersej]

Honestly, I’d do it. I do tend to over value guys like this though.

I think for me it's about where he fits on the roster. McAvoy has always been so much more effective when he is working with another mobile D that can turn the team into a 5 man attack in the offensive zone. If Middleton is going to be a guy that has the play die on his stick, that really hurts not just McAvoy but the whole offense when they load up the McAvoy pairing and the Pasta line on the ice at the same time.

You could put him with Carlo instead, but is there enough puck movement there?

I'm pro Middleton, but I am more pro Hanifin. Its much easier to see how he is plug and play, despite that fact that he will cost more and doesn't bring the needed physical element. Until that shakes out it's hard to talk myself into thinking a big package for Middleton is worth it.

The guy, to me, that is a no brainer guy to go after on the Wild is Duhaime.

 

[Smitty426]

He's young NHL-experience wise, not age wise, and this is his fourth pro season. If he was going to further develop into a physical force, it would have happened by now..

Straight up? Doesn't make sense for the Wild. You want to talk about upgrading Bahl to Middleton with NJ covering the difference? That's a conversation that could make sense.

sure what were you thinking

 

[AKL]

sure what were you thinking

Without Bahl, as the OP said earlier, I'd be looking for a 1st. With Bahl, I'd still be looking for a 2nd. So Bahl+2nd.

 

[Sigh]

I think for me it's about where he fits on the roster. McAvoy has always been so much more effective when he is working with another mobile D that can turn the team into a 5 man attack in the offensive zone. If Middleton is going to be a guy that has the play die on his stick, that really hurts not just McAvoy but the whole offense when they load up the McAvoy pairing and the Pasta line on the ice at the same time.

You could put him with Carlo instead, but is there enough puck movement there?

I'm pro Middleton, but I am more pro Hanifin. Its much easier to see how he is plug and play, despite that fact that he will cost more and doesn't bring the needed physical element. Until that shakes out it's hard to talk myself into thinking a big package for Middleton is worth it.

The guy, to me, that is a no brainer guy to go after on the Wild is Duhaime.

You always make great points. Hanifin would definitely be a sweet add, but he feels like the kind of player that gets traded to someone else only to torch us in the playoffs.

I don't know enough about Duhaime to really comment. I know he KO'd a guy, but little else.

 

[wintersej]

You always make great points. Hanifin would definitely be a sweet add, but he feels like the kind of player that gets traded to someone else only to torch us in the playoffs.

I don't know enough about Duhaime to really comment. I know he KO'd a guy, but little else.

Not much more to know. He is cheap and likes to smash.

And thanks! Just don’t take 5 minutes of effort to find the hundreds of posts where I was embarrassingly wrong.

 

[57special]

I think for me it's about where he fits on the roster. McAvoy has always been so much more effective when he is working with another mobile D that can turn the team into a 5 man attack in the offensive zone. If Middleton is going to be a guy that has the play die on his stick, that really hurts not just McAvoy but the whole offense when they load up the McAvoy pairing and the Pasta line on the ice at the same time.

You could put him with Carlo instead, but is there enough puck movement there?

I'm pro Middleton, but I am more pro Hanifin. Its much easier to see how he is plug and play, despite that fact that he will cost more and doesn't bring the needed physical element. Until that shakes out it's hard to talk myself into thinking a big package for Middleton is worth it.

The guy, to me, that is a no brainer guy to go after on the Wild is Duhaime.

I get Hanifan over Middleton, but he would be more expensive, as is his cap hit. As i said in many places, though, Faber REALLY reminds me of McAvoy, and since Middleton has been paired with Faber he has looked really good. IT's also not a bad thing to have your best dman have a partner that will watch your back should an opposing forward try to run him into the boards on a forecheck. Hanifin and middleton are two different types of players, anyway.

I like Duhaime, also. I know his numbers are lame, but the guy is fast, and physical. I just don't know if Guerin will be able to re-sign him at a number both can live with due to his puzzling re-signing of the aging Foligno, Gaudreau, Hartman, and Zuccarello. He got low balled this year in negotiations... I don't think duhaime will go for that again.

 

[wintersej]

I get Hanifan over Middleton, but he would be more expensive, as is his cap hit. As i said in many places, though, Faber REALLY reminds me of McAvoy, and since Middleton has been paired with Faber he has looked really good. IT's also not a bad thing to have your best dman have a partner that will watch your back should an opposing forward try to run him into the boards on a forecheck. Hanifin and middleton are two different types of players, anyway.

I like Duhaime, also. I know his numbers are lame, but the guy is fast, and physical. I just don't know if Guerin will be able to re-sign him at a number both can live with due to his puzzling re-signing of the aging Foligno, Gaudreau, Hartman, and Zuccarello. He got low balled this year in negotiations... I don't think duhaime will go for that again.

I’m with you 100000% on the Faber/McAvoy comp.

And I hear you on what he would bring to the pairing. It’s kinda like Graves/Makar vs Toews/Makar. Not a perfect comparison by any means. But I don’t think the Avs would choose to go back.

There are many Bruins fans who don’t agree with me, though. But I’m not sure even those fans would go for the first. They would probably do Lysell (which I find a bit funny since you likely are getting a worse prospect than Lysell with an average late first). I’m slow to do that because if the Bruins are going to be dumpster diving up the middle for a bit, a speedy playmaking winger who loves the puck on his stick and isn’t afraid to go inside sounds like the kind of guy that could make that work.

But once a chip like Hanifin gets moved, feelings change both for fans and real GMs if they didn’t get him.

 

[57special]

I’m with you 100000% on the Faber/McAvoy comp.

And I hear you on what he would bring to the pairing. It’s kinda like Graves/Makar vs Toews/Makar. Not a perfect comparison by any means. But I don’t think the Avs would choose to go back.

There are many Bruins fans who don’t agree with me, though. But I’m not sure even those fans would go for the first. They would probably do Lysell (which I find a bit funny since you likely are getting a worse prospect than Lysell with an average late first). I’m slow to do that because if the Bruins are going to be dumpster diving up the middle for a bit, a speedy playmaking winger who loves the puck on his stick and isn’t afraid to go inside sounds like the kind of guy that could make that work.

But once a chip like Hanifin gets moved, feelings change both for fans and real GMs if they didn’t get him.

yeah, but you don't have a 1st(or a 2nd, or a 3rd).