Jake Gardiner

[Beleafer4]

When did Gunnar become everyone's target for hate? Gardiner is most certainly not better than Gunnar, Gunnar has a whopping 6 less points than Gardiner and he plays hard PK minutes and is 2nd in QoC. Gunnar's defense > Gardiner's defense, no question about it.


I'm a fan of Gards as well.

Oh for sure, gunnarsson has been an absolute rock this year. I havent seen him make a glaring mistake that led to a goal in weeks, maybe even months. Best guy in his own end on our team by quite a bit.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

I just looked into it and found that Gardiner has the best Corsi relative % on the team, and the best Fenwick relative % of all of the defensemen.

Of further note, Kadri has the best Corsi relative, followed by Kessel and JVR.

Interesting stuff.

 

[mikebel111*]

I just looked into it and found that Gardiner has the best Corsi relative % on the team, and the best Fenwick relative % of all of the defensemen.

Of further note, Kadri has the best Corsi relative, followed by Kessel and JVR.

Interesting stuff.

Gardiner and kadri are our best possession players.
Stats like this tell they will both become really good players.
Patience everyone.
Both have stepped up their game recently as well

 

[The_Chosen_One]

BTW Gardiner is not the 2nd best defenceman on this team. Gunnarson is.

Carl's feelings would be hurt if he read he was behind Gardiner.

Gunnarsson is superior to Gardiner. There is no question about that. However, the current top pairing isn't very effective in driving possession. Phaneuf needs someone who can better move the puck, and mid-pairing needs to be a much more balanced. I think having Gunnars and Phaneuf on separate pairing to spread out our defensive acumen is the way to go.

It's not like the top pairing plays 30 mins/ game. We need to see Carlyle change the pairing and get a PMD on the top one.

Gardiner - Phaneuf
Rielly - Gunnarsson
Franson - Gleasson
Ranger

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Gunnarsson is superior to Gardiner. There is no question about that. However, the current top pairing isn't very effective in driving possession. Phaneuf needs someone who can better move the puck, and mid-pairing needs to be a much more balanced. I think having Gunnars and Phaneuf on separate pairing to spread out our defensive acumen is the way to go.

It's not like the top pairing plays 30 mins/ game. We need to see Carlyle change the pairing and get a PMD on the top one.

Gardiner - Phaneuf
Rielly - Gunnarsson
Franson - Gleasson
Ranger

Yep, as a Defenceman he is. As an Offenceman, Gardiner is in a league all his own. He will make a great swing man for us. 7th D man, and 12 fwd. A valuable versatile weapon.

 

[seanlinden]

I don't like the idea of using the "he doesn't penalty kill" argument against Gardiner.

I guess it would have some leverage if our PK was good, but it sucks.

I think if he was on it, it would improve.

So you think you're smarter than Randy Carlyle?

 

[seanlinden]

Gunnarsson is superior to Gardiner. There is no question about that. However, the current top pairing isn't very effective in driving possession. Phaneuf needs someone who can better move the puck, and mid-pairing needs to be a much more balanced. I think having Gunnars and Phaneuf on separate pairing to spread out our defensive acumen is the way to go.

It's not like the top pairing plays 30 mins/ game. We need to see Carlyle change the pairing and get a PMD on the top one.

Gardiner - Phaneuf
Rielly - Gunnarsson
Franson - Gleasson
Ranger

They're not because of the competition they face.

Gardiner is not a player you can put out there against the other team's best offensive players. He will get defensively overwhelmed, and drive possession downwards.

Realistically, there's absolutely no way you could even think of improving the Gunnarsson-Phaneuf pair. The ONLY reason to even consider breaking them up would be to spread the wealth and get Gunnarsson playing with Franson. They have a ridiclous QoC and relative QoC. They are a combined +28 when the next best defenceman on the team is a -4. For the people who criticize their so-called lack of posession driving, they are 1-2 in even strength points on our blueline. (Phaneuf has 18, Gunnarsson 15). What more could you ask for?

The ONLY knock on them as a top pair is that Gunnarsson doesn't have a lot of total points... but he averages 14 seconds of powerplay time per game! Defencemen who put up the big numbers tend to rely heavily on the powerplay (approx 40% for the guys at the top of the league, and they're all puck-rushers 5on5).

 

[Hockey Talker29]

So you think you're smarter than Randy Carlyle?

I think the idea that Jake can't play the penalty kill is dumb. Both from a development standpoint, and from a results perspective.

The PK isn't working, so I would change it. I'd rather have Gardiner there than Franson or Ranger. I don't think either of them is better than Gardiner defensively overall. And I think a little mobility and puck handling is important for a good PK.

What's the worst that could happen? It's already ranked 26th.

I also think Gardiner plays better with more minutes. Fitness-wise, he's probably the most capable on our defense corps in terms of handling a lot of minutes. I think the extra workload would help him bring out the sharpness in his game that we saw against Boston, when he was basically leading the team in ice-time.

 

[seanlinden]

I think the idea that Jake can't play the penalty kill is dumb. Both from a development standpoint, and from a results perspective.

The PK isn't working, so I would change it. I'd rather have Gardiner there than Franson or Ranger. I don't think either of them is better than Gardiner defensively overall. And I think a little mobility and puck handling is important for a good PK.

What's the worst that could happen? It's already ranked 26th.

I also think Gardiner plays better with more minutes. Fitness-wise, he's probably the most capable on our defense corps in terms of handling a lot of minutes. I think the extra workload would help him bring out the sharpness in his game that we saw against Boston, when he was basically leading the team in ice-time.

It could go down to 27th, 28th, 29th, or 30th. It could cost us a few critical games down the stretch.

I'll take the proven Maple Leafs coaching staff's opinion over some guy on hfboards any day of the week.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I think the idea that Jake can't play the penalty kill is dumb. Both from a development standpoint, and from a results perspective.

The PK isn't working, so I would change it. I'd rather have Gardiner there than Franson or Ranger. I don't think either of them is better than Gardiner defensively overall. And I think a little mobility and puck handling is important for a good PK.

What's the worst that could happen? It's already ranked 26th.

I also think Gardiner plays better with more minutes. Fitness-wise, he's probably the most capable on our defense corps in terms of handling a lot of minutes. I think the extra workload would help him bring out the sharpness in his game that we saw against Boston, when he was basically leading the team in ice-time.

Gardiner pinching when we are 1 man down, I got to see this, as well as not winning one puck battle along the boards. We don't need to win puck battles along the boards on PK's do we?

 

[The Blue Devil]

Gardiner isn't a shutdown player, so it wouldn't make sense for him to have a high QoC. He's best used as an offensive catalyst, and on a Carlyle managed team, that means a very high likelihood that the QoC is a VERY important indicator of how the player is value DEFENSIVELY, but not overall as a competent player.

While I disagree with the idea of pairing him with Phaneuf, I do agree that Gardiner is light years more talented than Gunnarsson. Furthermore, Gunnarsson is not on the 1st pairing because he is the #2 dman on this team. He is there because using Gleason or Ranger* there creates an imbalance on the remaining lines because Gunnarsson is inferior to either option.

*Ranger struggled early in the season and probably hasn't proven enough to warrant the responsibility under Carlyle's eyes, although IMO his play has been better than Gunnarsson's in the latter half of the year, and he plays a sound defensive game but with much higher offensive potential).

You should probably pay better attention then.

 

[Gallagbi]

Gardiner pinching when we are 1 man down, I got to see this, as well as not winning one puck battle along the boards. We don't need to win puck battles along the boards on PK's do we?

Doesn't Gardiner have the best PK statistics on our D core when you look at Sh toi and PKGA?

 

[The Blue Devil]

Let's put it this way, he can be one of those rare players that can do both easily, isn't this worth trying?

We could ice 7 D men, and not miss a beat if Gardiner could play 3rd line mins, or 4th line mins.

Imagine Gardiner on the 4th line, as a coach he would be a weapon against guys that couldn't match him talent or skating wise.

Imagine a Marc-Andre Bergeron but 5x better. Why are some fans so closed minded to trying this? Gardiner has already played fwd, he has the skill set to succeed, he can be a unique player here.

Why does it matter if we're "close minded" to trying it? It's not like we have any input on the lines.

 

[pooleboy]

Gardiner pinching when we are 1 man down, I got to see this, as well as not winning one puck battle along the boards. We don't need to win puck battles along the boards on PK's do we?

lmao what are u talking about, 5 on 5 play is way different than PK.

u should know this Mr. Knowitallofhf
#interactif4LeafsGM

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Gardiner is good enough defensively to play on the PK? If I am not mistaken, PK is reserved for preventing goals.

May as well have Lupul and Kessel kill PIMS because they can skate.

Gardiner is good offensively, in both zones of the ice. Anyone disagree with the underlined statement?

 

[pooleboy]

Gardiner is good enough defensively to play on the PK? If I am not mistaken, PK is reserved for preventing goals.

May as well have Lupul and Kessel kill PIMS because they can skate.

Gardiner is good offensively, in both zones of the ice. Anyone disagree with the underlined statement?

~Logic

tbh i dont think either Rielly or Gardiner should be on the PK,
i agree with u totally, but the arogance u say it with is what pisses me off, u think u know everything, it almost seems like u dont want Gardiner. Should just plug bozak in back there, he doesn't play forward anyway. imo Gardiner will turn into a #2 Dman which we will use as a #3 and be a lethal puck moving defence core with Rielly-Phaneuf being our top pairing.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

tbh i dont think either Rielly or Gardiner should be on the PK,
i agree with u totally, but the arogance u say it with is what pisses me off, u think u know everything, it almost seems like u dont want Gardiner. Should just plug bozak in back there, he doesn't play forward anyway. imo Gardiner will turn into a #2 Dman which we will use as a #3 and be a lethal puck moving defence core with Rielly-Phaneuf being our top pairing.

I talk hockey. Period. Nothing else.

This is a hockey reply, Gardiner is one of our weakest Defensive D men. IMO, he should be nowhere close to being on the PK. Not unless we need a goal.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

It could go down to 27th, 28th, 29th, or 30th. It could cost us a few critical games down the stretch.

I'll take the proven Maple Leafs coaching staff's opinion over some guy on hfboards any day of the week.

It could also go up to 22nd and win us some critical games by that logic.

Odds are that it will not change very much, but there's a lot more room to get better than worse.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

I talk hockey. Period. Nothing else.

From a biased, closed-minded perspective.

You adore Bozak, and he can do no wrong.

You don't like Gardiner, and are very reluctant to admit when he plays well.

Gunnar and Phaneuf are the best #1 PK pairing for sure.

Who should be the second pairing in your opinion?

I can tell you, we definitely do not have 2 defensemen that are better than Gardiner defensively outside of the 1st pairing.

All of the pertinent stats agree with me. +/-, Corsi, Fenwick, etc.

So, yes, I think he deserves a chance to see if he can improve our very weak penalty kill.

 

[pooleboy]

I talk hockey. Period. Nothing else.

(Mod Edit)

Gardiner shouldn't play on the PK thats idiotic, and i never see Gardiner playing on the PK, I dont want him too, id rather him play harder 5 on 5 minutes and PP, (Which imo Rielly-Gardiner is a much better defence on the PP than Phaneuf-Franson)

However, had a discussion with someone about this last night, id rather have a defence core of Phaneuf Rielly and Gardiner, having 2 lethal PMD over the boards every shift than trading gardiner for a dime a dozen, hard nosed defenceman. IMO Bieska would be perfect here, but not at the price of Gardiner. We need another Gleason badly, a right handed one preferably (to take out Franson) and this team would look amazing. Gardiner has the speed and hands to be a top pairing dman, and if we didn't have Rielly im sure we would have touted him our next best defenceman (i dont see him being that SUPERSTAR like i do with Morgan Rielly, but i do see that he could be a star.)

Only trade Gardiner for a ROR, Couterier type of return... but imo our biggest weakness is our back end which will be fixed in a couple years with our prospects learning the ropes and other youngins coming through (finn, percy, granberg, macwilliam)

 

[Gallagbi]

Gardiner is good enough defensively to play on the PK? If I am not mistaken, PK is reserved for preventing goals.

May as well have Lupul and Kessel kill PIMS because they can skate.

Gardiner is good offensively, in both zones of the ice. Anyone disagree with the underlined statement?

Looks like Gardiner has done as well as any other Leafs defenseman on the PK this year, arguably a bit better.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

From a biased, closed-minded perspective.

You adore Bozak, and he can do no wrong.

You don't like Gardiner, and are very reluctant to admit when he plays well.

Gunnar and Phaneuf are the best #1 PK pairing for sure.

Who should be the second pairing in your opinion?

I can tell you, we definitely do not have 2 defensemen that are better than Gardiner defensively outside of the 1st pairing.

All of the pertinent stats agree with me. +/-, Corsi, Fenwick, etc.

So, yes, I think he deserves a chance to see if he can improve our very weak penalty kill.

It doesn't matter what you or I think, what matters is what the Coach thinks. He probably knows more about Coaching in the NHL than you or I.

He has sheltered Gardiner this year in the softest competition as possible, his actions do not indicate he would trust Gardiner as he does for Dion or Gunnar in defensive situations.

You can want and opine you think Gardiner should be playing on the PK all you want. The coach thinks otherwise at this moment in his career.

 

[pooleboy]

It doesn't matter what you or I think, what matters is what the Coach thinks. He probably knows more about Coaching in the NHL than you or I.

He has sheltered Gardiner this year in the softest competition as possible, his actions do not indicate he would trust Gardiner as he does for Dion or Gunnar in defensive situations.

You can want and opine you think Gardiner should be playing on the PK all you want. The coach thinks otherwise at this moment in his career.

i can guarantee he does, he also said he doesn't want Gardiner traded and likes him. (this was before the TD)... idk what u want people to say? no offensive defenceman shouldn't play the PK, prove your point yet?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

i can guarantee he does, he also said he doesn't want Gardiner traded and likes him. (this was before the TD)... idk what u want people to say? no offensive defenceman shouldn't play the PK, prove your point yet?

I think Anaheim keeping Schultz over Gardiner when the Lupul trade happned is indicative of how Carlyle thinks.

He was probably consulted who he would rather have when that Lupul trade went down.

Whether Justin or Jake is better in the long run, only time will tell. But one cannot ignore Ducks had one rated higher than the other. Burke also asked for Shultz, it's well documented.

 

[cack]

Carlyle has been working with a young Gardiner a lot this season, it appears he is slowly being groomed to play in all types of situations including the PK.