TSN: Jake Gardiner or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Advanced Stats

[HarrisonFord]

http://www.tsn.ca/you-don-t-have-to-be-chara-to-be-an-effective-nhl-defenceman-1.358467

Look where he ranks in terms of slot D

Click to read more...

 

[LeafsNation149]

Gardiner is extremely underrated, people just look at how weak he is and assume he's useless

 

[PuckMagi]

Still my favourite Leafs player.

I just love watching him skate with the puck. He seems to be able to freeze a lot of players and then just skate around them.

 

[AINEC*]

Defend my crease!

 

[PuckMagi]

 

[Nithoniniel]

Man, I've had some pretty long discussions on this very topic at this forum. I sense another one coming up in this very thread actually.

 

[Nithoniniel]

It's worth noting that one thing that the article doesn't mention and that is of key importance to the discussion is that you have to separate defensive ability and defensive effectiveness.

Guys like Barrie and Gardiner is effective defensively because they make sure they don't have to defend much. Other guys might be great defensively, but they defend so much that they are simply not effective at it.

EDIT: I don't mean defend much as playing tough minutes. I mean that they are so bad at turning defense into offense relative to the minutes they play.

 

[ACC1224]

I don't mind Gardiner, just wish he was a little smarter.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

I don't mind Gardiner, just wish he was a little smarter.

pretty much but I think that'll come with age.

 

[ACC1224]

pretty much but I think that'll come with age.

I don't know, the older I get the dumber he seems.

 

[CalgaryLeaf*]

Gardiner stinks...We've all seen him play.

Let's email that chart to the rest of the GM's and maybe the Leafs won't have to take back 1/2 his salary in a trade. Right now he's untradeable with that ridiculous contract.

Perfect example of how some stats can be meaningless.

 

[Purity*]

He's got his upside and he's got his flaws.

His upside: A very smooth skating defensemen with great puck-moving capabilities with a good amount of puck skills in his game. The advanced stats do not lie about his game (Corsi stats etc...), it's exactly what you see on the ice. He's able to move the puck up ice very quickly and thus is in the attacking zone more than our other defenders. He has shown tremendous upside in stretches of games, most notable ones being the Bruins series and the last 20 games of 13'14.

His downside: He is weak along the boards, in front of the net, and anything that relates to physical contact. This is most noticed when he's left to fight off bigger forwards on his own as he does not have the stickwork or positional brilliance of a Duncan Keith in order to compensate. It also doesn't help that our forwards in recent years have been utterly terrible defensively. When he's stuck with nothing to pass to and is left to fight off a forecheck by himself it really doesn't help his cause whatsoever.

I think his weaknesses could be mitigated with a suitable defensive partner and a better defensive forward group.

 

[tml19]

Gardiner stinks...We've all seen him play.

Let's email that chart to the rest of the GM's and maybe the Leafs won't have to take back 1/2 his salary in a trade. Right now he's untradeable with that ridiculous contract.

Perfect example of how some stats can be meaningless.

You win worst post of the day

 

[Morbo]

He's got all the tools physically but his hockey IQ seems to be lacking. Along with Kadri I'm really curious to see how Jake responds to Babcock.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Man, I've had some pretty long discussions on this very topic at this forum. I sense another one coming up in this very thread actually.

Gardiner stinks...We've all seen him play.

Let's email that chart to the rest of the GM's and maybe the Leafs won't have to take back 1/2 his salary in a trade. Right now he's untradeable with that ridiculous contract.

Perfect example of how some stats can be meaningless.

 

[Kubus]

I think the kid will have a bounce back year. This is a kid that got his first bigger contract, and like many players that do had an off year. This is not something new to players, it is almost as constant as the sophomore slump. Add to this the coaching he was getting, and it's no wonder he had an off year.

I think with Babcock here he will use Gardiner to his strengths and teach instead of punish. I really expect the kid to come around and prove he is a legit top 4 guy.

 

[The Man with a Plan]

Gardiner stinks...We've all seen him play.

Let's email that chart to the rest of the GM's and maybe the Leafs won't have to take back 1/2 his salary in a trade. Right now he's untradeable with that ridiculous contract.

Perfect example of how some stats can be meaningless.

And you are a perfect example of someone who doesn't have a clue what they are talking about.

If you look at Gard's stats since Randy was fired... he has improved in every facet. Randy was misusing him and stunting his game. Babcock will help him round himself out nicely. Solid 2nd pairing dman who can control the play and skate like the wind.

He was not a minus player the second half of the year and did a pretty damn good job overall. He was simply put our best dman the second half.

Always funny how a 4 mill dman who hasn't yet his his prime and or ceiling is all of a sudden a horrible untradeable contract.

 

[Atomos2]

Someone should set this up on the main board. It could end up being an award winning thread .

 

[Wafflewhipper]

You win worst post of the day

Nothing false about that post of theirs. Gardiner isn't a clever defenseman to my thinking either. In fairness though he is still young and improving.

Two years ago when he was in the Ahl he was a dominant defenseman and actually looked like a Hedman style of skater. To soon to quit on him. He is a bonehead sometimes. We still hope he developes under Babs i hope.

 

[Kubus]

He's got all the tools physically but his hockey IQ seems to be lacking. Along with Kadri I'm really curious to see how Jake responds to Babcock.

I think part of the lacking hockey "IQ", is that he was stressed by the coaching staff because he got punished for making a mistake instead of taught how to deal with it. A lot of his mistakes last year appeared, at least to me, from trying/thinking too much on the ice instead of doing. Also trying to live up to his new contract might have been a big part of it. Whatever the issue was, the kids confidence seem shattered.

I think this kid will excel under Babcock as he is a teacher first and foremost. This is a guy who talks to his kids after they do something wrong.

 

[pucci2001]

Look where Pietrangelo is...

 

[Kubus]

Always funny how a 4 mill dman who hasn't yet his his prime and or ceiling is all of a sudden a horrible untradeable contract.

Well in Leaf land if you are not a number 1D or a number 1C, and when I say number 1 I mean top 10 in the league, you are useless and overpaid.

 

[Atomos2]

Look where Pietrangelo is...

Gardiner > Pietrangelo



*runs and hides under a desk

 

[Woll Smoth]

His defensive ability and IQ are on the low side. Seems like a guy who was on a lot of people's radar because of his skating and offensive ability. The defense just never caught up. I wouldn't be surprised if people see Percy as the better of the two in a few years

 

[pcruz]

Only in Toronto can the following be true:

Defenseman is lauded for his offensive abilities while not being any good in defensive situations.
Winger is widely hated for his lack of defense while being one of the top offensive players in the league for a considerable period of time.

Gardiner is weak on the boards, behind the net, in front of the net, and any other situation that is actually defending. His strengths are all offensive. That's not even debatable.

Let's set up a thread wherein we track all of Gardiner's great defensive plays this coming season. Let's see if we can fill a page.

Let's set up another thread wherein we track all of Gardiner's defensive lapses, giveaways in the defensive zone and missed defensive assignments.

We'll need more than a full thread for the latter.